5 year ban - file for waiver before i129f?

[Bill and Tanya 18]

tl;dr? skip to bottom

I started this thread about a month ago and my girl and I decided to brave Mexico for a meeting. All went well, except for a bad decision we made based on bad or incomplete advice.

We had been holed up in the hotel for 4 days enjoying each other's company when we both started getting cabin fever. Being that I did not know Juarez very well, and honestly was still a little afraid of the city, I asked about safe places in Juarez to go shopping. After a brief chuckle, the hotel manager suggested that we visit the US embassy and ask about a permit to visit El Paso for the day to go shopping. As I am a computer programmer, and not an immigration or customs official, this sounded like good advice at the time - receive a one day pass to shop and stimulate the US economy... what could go wrong by asking a question?

So we drove to the US embassy and after standing in line for the better part of an hour, made it to a bullet proof window where I had to ask for someone inside that spoke English? This probably should have been my first warning, a US embassy with few staff members who spoke English. However, I asked the question, and was told that that permits to cross were given at the bridge, and I would have to ask there.

We drove back the the hotel and had dinner, as it was nearing dusk and did not want to be out in the city after dark. We made plans to go to the bridge in the morning after breakfast. Just as some added information, and so you know we were not racially profiled, both of us are white - very very white. If we were any more white, we would be clear. I am also very educated, and while not rich, I am well off... drive a new Audi, and dress well.

We watched more than half a movie in my car while waiting in line on the bridge, then finally at the crossing, I handed him all our documents, and explained that we were here looking for information about a permit to go shopping for the day in El Paso, and that we were told to inquire at the bridge by the US embassy. I was forthcoming with him from the start, explained that she was previously denied a tourist visa and we were staying in a hotel in Juarez that was paid through the week and she had return tickets to her home country.

They returned all our documents, then directed me to park my car in a slot adjacent to the little booth, and go to the large building. Everyone was very nice, and not once did anyone we met thus far tell us that we were out of our mind, or that what we were asking was simply idiotic. In fact, it all sounded to us like a very normal and common procedure.

We sat in line with others that appeared to be after the same thing for the next 2 and a half hours, watching each one give a hand print and their photo taken until we were called to a window and asked to recite the entire request again. Again, nothing to indicate that we were not there doing anything out of the ordinary. After a brief interview at the window, they asked us to go to a door at the end of the room, where a uniformed officer met us and walked us inside. Everyone was all smiles and friendliness. They sat us apart in separate areas, for what I imagined to be to ask each of us questions to make sure our stories matched, and that she wasn't part of some human trafficking ring.

We sat there for another 2 hours. I guessed that they were simply getting someone a little higher up in the food chain, or had limited resources to interview us. Nothing was really told to us at this point. I did find it a little strange that I was sitting next to what appeared to be criminal types or ruffians, but I gave it no mind - they were handcuffed, and we were not. Then suddenly, after what appeared to be a shift change, I was asked to follow another man through a door at the opposite end. I assumed my interview had finally come up. After I was taken through the door and down a long hall, we were outside. It was there I was told that my girlfriend was being deported back to Russia, and I would now leave or be detained.

I was floored and asked what the hell happened. I begged to see her, and asked if there was something I did not know, like maybe they found drugs on her, or maybe she was wanted for terrorist activities in other countries. I was told there was nothing they could tell me, and if I did not leave, I would be arrested. All I was told was that "my girlfriend would be on the next plane to Russia, courtesy of the US government".

I went back to my car, where a female officer had been waiting. By now I was in tears, and she tried to console me, but suggested that I return to the hotel, check out, then go home. That I could talk to my girlfriend again once she had returned to her home.

I did as suggested, went back to the hotel, packed everything up quickly as I could, then checked out of the hotel. By now, it was almost 11 pm and the city was quiet. I drove back to the border crossing where we went before instead of the closer bridge in hope that I would learn something new, or be told everything was a mistake. Instead, I was forced to explain the entire story again, and my car was searched from top to bottom, something that took an additional hour and a half. I realized after pulling away that one of them still had my birth certificate - meaning I had to reenter Mexico, then go straight back to the USA bridge so I could get my document back. Each time, my car was searched top to bottom - both entering and exiting. And yes, each time I had to repeat the complete story that they already had in the computer.

So now it is after 2 am, and I still have a 2 hour drive home. I made it home, unpacked the car, but left everything in the garage, and went straight to bed... passing out from sheer exhaustion. At 5 am my phone rang and woke me from a troubled sleep. The man on the phone explained that my girlfriend was ok, but was asking about her belongings. He then asked if I could bring them to the bridge. I said yes, of course, but it might take me a couple hours to get there. He told me where to bring it, and who to ask for. This seemed like a completely different staff than before.

I sprung our of bed and repacked her suitcase with all her things. Before at the hotel I had simply shoveled everything into whatever case was closest. I then raced BACK to El Paso and back to the bridge crossing. I went inside, asked for the man as instructed, and was almost immediately taken back to where I saw her behind a glass inside a locked holding cell.

The moment she saw me, she just smiled. I couldn't hold back the tears, but I smiled at her. After all she went through just so she could buy some nice things in El Paso for her friends and family, and she still found the strength to smile at me. I knew this was the woman I would marry.

I was told she would be given a formal interview in her native language, then processed into the detention camp, and eventually deported. The entire process could take up to a week or more. Being this was the first chance I had to talk to anyone, I politely asked if there was anything that could be done, and pleaded that this was all a huge misunderstanding. We only came to the bridge in search of information, and not once did either of us have intention to cross into the US illegally.

The younger man told me to sit, and not to talk to her through the glass, while the older gentleman came over, apparently the supervisor, and told me he is currently evaluating the case, but not to get my hopes up. He told me he would let me know after the interview, then directed me back the way I came; to the large waiting room we were in the day before.

I waited there for approximately 5 hours, when the supervisor said she would be processed and taken to the detention camp in the next hour or so. I begged him if I could see her before they took her, and he said he would see what he could do. I waited for another 2 hours before he came back and said that it was impossible, and they do not do this anymore, but would come back and let me know when she had been processed.

Another hour went by, and he came out and told me they discovered she was carrying a valid Mexico entry visa, and they would be able to release her to the Mexico side. I said, "Of course she does, I set all that up before she left Russia". He apologized then told me she should be out in the next hour or so. He was sympathetic, and said he would do everything he could to expedite the process of having her released.

About two hours later, she emerged from the same door we both went through nearly 40 hours before. She held me so tight, I thought I would burst. I thanked the man for finally realizing it was a mistake, and asked if this would damage our chances to be approved for K1 visa, or changing her status later. He said none at all, shook my hand, and bid me farewell. Before we left the large waiting room, I turned and exclaimed "VIVA LA MEXICO", the room erupted with cheers and laughter, then we quickly left and went straight to the hotel before they changed their minds.

tl;dr

When we got back to the hotel she showed me the papers they gave her, which said she was banned from the US for 5 years. I still had to go back to the US side to pick up my car, so I brought the paperwork back to the border and asked the man that told me there would be no future problem to explain this. He politely explained that she had been processed, and denied entry. This is the only form for denial of entry, and must simply file for a waiver. That it was all very common and will not be detrimental to our future petition. The remainder of our visit was as if the nightmare never happened, and she returned to Russia yesterday.

Now for my question. I am ready to file my i129F petition, and have all the documents required, and all evidence that we met in person, but now understand that I have to file an i212 waiver.

Do I

a) file this before filing my petition for K1, then wait for acceptance,

b) file it along with the K1 petition packet,

c) file the petition, wait to be denied, then file the i212, or

d) have no idea what I am doing, and should do something else?

I have read several posts on this topic, and see where people are being told all 4 different variants, so I am sure it is all based on the situation.

For clarification here is transcript of the top of the notice she received:

NOTICE TO ALIEN ORDERED REMOVED/DEPARTURE VERIFICATION

You have been found to be inadmissible to the United States under the provisions of section 212(a) of the Immigration and Nationality Act or deportable under the provisions of section 237 of the Act as a Visa Waiver Pilot Program violator. In accordance with the provisions of section 212(a)(9) of the act, you are prohibited from entering, attempting to enter, or being in the United States:

[x] For a period of 5 years from the date of your departure from the United States as a consequence of your having been found inadmissible as an arriving alien in proceedings under section 235(b)(1) or 240 of the Act.

The notice is a stack of papers that contain all the details of her interview, so if any additional parts are required to answer this question, please do not hesitate to ask. I do ask that people refrain from bashing me for not knowing what we were doing, and all the "you should have" comments. What's done is done, now I just need to figure out which is the best method to file my petition correctly, and avoid more delays by not knowing what I am doing.

As a side note, you know that time you were charged some stupid fee by your bank for something you were unaware of? I don't have that problem... that is what I know... that is what I do. This is all new to me. Thanks for understanding, and for reading.)))

[amykathleen2005 441]

A waiver is usually filed after you've been denied.

[Dr. Obvious 49]

I can't think of many places more romantic than Ciudad Juarez.

[baron555 934]

File the waiver along with the petition.

She did not have business trying to enter the US being she was not a US or Zmexican citizen.

[belinda63 3,038]

WOW! I think the border people just had their panties in a wad that day or maybe they smoked some serious weed before they came to work. Sounds like they initially thought she had come to Mexico illegally and was then trying to cross to the US illegally. But, be that as it may.....

You will follow the normal procedures for filing the I-129f, she will be denied at her interview, then the waiver will have to be filed.

I am so sorry this happened to you and her. The US government just seems determined to screw you over......like I say, if something bad can happen, it will happen to me. Again, I am so sorry.

[aaron2020 11,651]

If you're well-off, dress well, and driving an Audi, then you should probably spring for a lawyer instead of taking immigration advice from a hotel manager in Juarez.

You cannot file the waiver until the k-1 is denied.

Edited February 1, 2013 by aaron2020

[Dr. Obvious 49]

I am so sorry this happened to you and her. The US government just seems determined to screw you over......like I say, if something bad can happen, it will happen to me. Again, I am so sorry.

I have no idea what this guy even thought there was to ask about. She was denied a visa, they were not going to go shopping in the US, and this never should have occurred to them as an option period, regardless of what some guy at a hotel suggested. This was just playing with snakes and they got bit.

[baron555 934]

File the waiver along with the petition. Don't wait until she is denied. Do your homework; look back on other threads here on VJ. Be a man and start to educate yourself about this process.....you obvioulsy didn't take seriously all of our advice from your first thread and now you yourself have mucked it up. Be grateful that she still wants to be with you.

[Bill and Tanya 18]

If you're well-off, dress well, and driving an Audi, then you should probably spring for a lawyer instead of taking immigration advice from a hotel manager in Juarez.

You cannot file the waiver until the k-1 is denied.

I really don't want to get into the battle of do-it-yourself vs. hire a lawyer. For every suggestion I hear or read to hire a lawyer, there is another that says you can do better if you educate yourself and you have vested interest in getting it done right. As for taking advice from a hotel manager, it was simply about where to shop... something a lawyer wouldn't have been much help with anyway.

[belinda63 3,038]

But the issue is (aside from his question about a waiver) how can the US officials detain someone who has not entered the US and has a visa to be legally in Mexico. The simply went to border control, on the Mexican side, to ask if she could get a day visa. Why not just tell her no and send her back to the hotel? Why all the drama, detention, and confusion about shipping her in handcuffs into the US so they could send her back to Russia at our expense when she was legal in Mexico and had a return ticket?

And yes stupidity happens. In Germany we had a 2nd LT. who was almost arrested because he caught a train to Austria not knowing he needed his passport, made it fine into Austria, but returning to Germany, where he was stationed, was almost denied entry and detained although he had a legal right to be in Germany by virtue of his military orders.

[Bill and Tanya 18]

So far two suggestions to file the waiver with, and two to wait for after denial, and one "should have suggestion")))

Thanks for the input from those who understood that I simply didn't understand what I was doing. Vision is always better hindsight. Please continue, and if anyone can chime in with how long of a delay is to be expected for a denial if I wait for that until I file for waiver, that could be beneficial.

[Bill and Tanya 18]

But the issue is (aside from his question about a waiver) how can the US officials detain someone who has not entered the US and has a visa to be legally in Mexico. The simply went to border control, on the Mexican side, to ask if she could get a day visa. Why not just tell her no and send her back to the hotel? Why all the drama, detention, and confusion about shipping her in handcuffs into the US so they could send her back to Russia at our expense when she was legal in Mexico and had a return ticket?

And yes stupidity happens. In Germany we had a 2nd LT. who was almost arrested because he caught a train to Austria not knowing he needed his passport, made it fine into Austria, but returning to Germany, where he was stationed, was almost denied entry and detained although he had a legal right to be in Germany by virtue of his military orders.

This is a very good question, and the only answer I received when asked myself was that border patrol just do what they want, and have no guidelines to adhere to. Personally, I think most of them have been burdened with all the added bureaucracy by being absorbed into homeland security that they are bitter about all the added work, and it reflects in how they treat everyone. I agree, we should have been laughed at, and told to go back the way we came. Sadly, it just didn't go that way.

[aaron2020 11,651]

I really don't want to get into the battle of do-it-yourself vs. hire a lawyer. For every suggestion I hear or read to hire a lawyer, there is another that says you can do better if you educate yourself and you have vested interest in getting it done right. As for taking advice from a hotel manager, it was simply about where to shop... something a lawyer wouldn't have been much help with anyway.

Crossing a border has to do with immigration. Crossing a border has nothing to do with shopping. The purpose to go shopping in the US is irrelevant. A lawyer would have told you that.

If you want to educate yourself to do it, then don't just rely on a hotel manager to give you advice on crossing the border. You didn't educate yourself and your fiancée got a 5 years ban. If you had bother to check, it would be clear that a person who has been denied a tourist visa should not attempt to enter the US at a US border checkpoint. Once you're in a car heading into the US, you don't have the option of a u-turn.

You will not find a single person on this forum who thinks that's its okay to attempt a day crossing after a visitor visa denial. To be blunt, that is just stupid.

Edited February 1, 2013 by aaron2020

[aaron2020 11,651]

This is a very good question, and the only answer I received when asked myself was that border patrol just do what they want, and have no guidelines to adhere to. Personally, I think most of them have been burdened with all the added bureaucracy by being absorbed into homeland security that they are bitter about all the added work, and it reflects in how they treat everyone. I agree, we should have been laughed at, and told to go back the way we came. Sadly, it just didn't go that way.

Far from the truth.

You screwed up. US border patrol didn't put your fiancée in a car and try to enter the US. You did.

Do you really think there are no procedures to deal with attempts to cross the border by various people?

You're speculating there was no procedure and your fiancée wa treated fairly because you are angry and hurt.

Accept that you screwed up.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

You can't file the waiver with the petition. Wait until she is denied, and have it ready to file the instant she is denied (she can hand it to them). Since in the end it was all a misunderstanding, she might not be denied at all.