As Predicted, Austerity Policies Send US Economy Downward

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

It's how we got out of the Great Depression last century.

It’s pretty much standard belief that Roosevelt’s New Deal is what ended the Great Depression. It’s also an unusual belief among economists that it did: there’s no real sign of the economy being in fine trim in 1938 or 1939.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/07/02/did-wwii-really-end-the-great-depression-perhaps-not/

Edited February 3, 2013 by The Patriot

[Dan and Judy 614]

World War II is what got us out of the great depression. Most other countries didn't come out so well.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

World War II is what got us out of the great depression. Most other countries didn't come out so well.

In response to contemporary arguments that the expenditures associated with World War II were a major factor in ending the Great Depression and should therefore be imitated today, we offer historical evidence to suggest that the wartime economy was hardly a model of success in the eyes of most Americans. Expanding on Robert Higgs’ criticisms of the ability of conventional macroeconomic data to tell the real story, we examine newspapers, diaries, and other primary source material to reveal the retrogression in living standards in the US during the war. Our investigation suggests that wartime prosperity is largely a myth and hardly a model for recovery from the Great Recession.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2095699

[Karee 4,190]

No. They haven't. Prisons have become centers of organized crime. The Saudis and other countries with very, very low drug abuse and the things that go with it DO deal with it differently. Their crime rates and their HIV rates and other outcome based measurement of performance differ significantly from ours.

Saudi justice for ya:

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia -- Online activists in Saudi Arabia are calling for harsher punishments for child abuse after reports that a prominent cleric received only a light sentence after confessing to the beating death of his 5-year-old daughter.

The social media campaign gaining momentum Sunday is the latest attempt to use the Internet to pressure the kingdom's ultraconservative rulers.

Saudi media reports say Fayhan al-Ghamdi, a frequent guest on Islamic TV programs, was arrested in November on charges of killing the girl. The reports said he questioned the child's virginity.

Saudi media say he was freed last week after serving a short prison term and agreeing to pay $50,000 in "blood money" to avoid a possible death sentence.

The money was presumably offered to the girl's mother or other relatives.

http://www.huffingto..._n_2610841.html

Yeah, seems like they have it all figured out there.

[OnMyWayID 1,489]

Nobody makes the case that you borrow your way out of debt. The argument is that you borrow your way out of severe economic downturns, get the economy running again which then enables you to balance budgets again. It's how we got out of the Great Depression last century. It's how the Great Recession did not turn into another depression. It's why our deficits and debts as a share of the economy today are lower than they would have been absent even the meager stimulus spending that has taken place.

This is no longer an option with 16 trillion in debt. You can't stabilize an economy where the #1 problem is the current debt by introducing more debt. If we had no or little or even moderate debt then it would possibly be worthwhile.

16 trillion in debt

The effects of interest payments and instability it is causing is the #1 issue with the economy.

This is the problem we have to fix.

What you suggest is the exact opposite if what should be done with the current situation, it will make things much worse in the mid to long term and even more people will suffer. There is no possible stabilization of the economy possible if we do it by adding debt so it will be a never ending cycle until we bite the bullet and fix the real problem.

so: if we made a list of really REALLY stupid things we could do right now if we care one whit about future people living here #1 is to borrow yet more money. Nothing NOTHING could be more stupid.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

World War II is what got us out of the great depression. Most other countries didn't come out so well.

Let's say for a moment that this is the case. Tell me, how did we pay for our engagement in WWII? What was our debt to GDP ratio going into and coming out of WWII? Right, it was roughly 50% going in and 120% coming out. So if spending money you don't have on building tanks and bombs that you blow up overseas gets you out of a depression, why would spending money you don't have on useful, lasting things not do at least the same?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

This is no longer an option with 16 trillion in debt.

Nonsense. If FDR had fallen for that kind of nonsense, we would not have come out of WWII as winners. We would have packed up because we could not afford to win. The Great Depression and WWII got us to a more than 120% debt to GDP ratio. That would be the equivalent of >$18TN dollars today. We're quite a bit away from that. And we would be much further away if Congress would take the foot off the economic brakes for a change.

[Dan and Judy 614]

In response to contemporary arguments that the expenditures associated with World War II were a major factor in ending the Great Depression and should therefore be imitated today, we offer historical evidence to suggest that the wartime economy was hardly a model of success in the eyes of most Americans. Expanding on Robert Higgs’ criticisms of the ability of conventional macroeconomic data to tell the real story, we examine newspapers, diaries, and other primary source material to reveal the retrogression in living standards in the US during the war. Our investigation suggests that wartime prosperity is largely a myth and hardly a model for recovery from the Great Recession.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246);"><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246);">http://papers.ssrn.c...ract_id=2095699

As Bernard Baruch pointed out the trick to running a peace time economy is to encourage consumption. During war you prioritize your production and reduce consumption on the home front. Women give up their nylon stockings so

their boyfriends float to the earth instead of falling like a rock when they jump out of airplanes. We went beyond what would have been previously considered full employment and dragged the women into factory jobs, Rosie the riveter yada yada. It wasn't till after we bled England dry of her gold and cash that we started the lend lease program. The best part was while our economy was going full speed ahead almost all the other industrialized countries were having

their industrial capacity destroyed. It was a piece cake of switching back from tanks to cars after the war. The world was ours on a silver plater, You got to break some eggs to make real mayonaize. The war took us out of the depression so fast we should have got whiplash.

[himher 634]

####### does that article have to do with the difference in HIV prevalance rates and drug use?

I see that you have it all figured out. Lacking an answer to the previously posted comment about the diffence in handling one issue you have some irrelevant little article about a completely different issue

Saudi justice for ya:

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia -- Online activists in Saudi Arabia are calling for harsher punishments for child abuse after reports that a prominent cleric received only a light sentence after confessing to the beating death of his 5-year-old daughter.

The social media campaign gaining momentum Sunday is the latest attempt to use the Internet to pressure the kingdom's ultraconservative rulers.

Saudi media reports say Fayhan al-Ghamdi, a frequent guest on Islamic TV programs, was arrested in November on charges of killing the girl. The reports said he questioned the child's virginity.

Saudi media say he was freed last week after serving a short prison term and agreeing to pay $50,000 in "blood money" to avoid a possible death sentence.

The money was presumably offered to the girl's mother or other relatives.

http://www.huffingto..._n_2610841.html

Yeah, seems like they have it all figured out there.

Edited February 3, 2013 by himher

[Karee 4,190]

####### does that article have to do with the difference in HIV prevalance rates and drug use? LOL

You were singing the praises of the Saudi legal system in a previous post. Would you like me to dig it up?

[himher 634]

I did note that the HIV prevalence rate in Saudi Arabia of .04 (vs. the US rate of .6) is not because they hand out unlimited supplies of needles to drug addicts

I also noted that HIV prevalence rates have nothing to do with government spending like libs believe it is

Would you like ME to dig it up for you?

You were singing the praises of the Saudi legal system in a previous post. Would you like me to dig it up?

Edited February 3, 2013 by himher

[Karee 4,190]

I did note that the HIV prevalence rate in Saudi Arabia of .04 (vs. the US rate of .6) is not because they hand out unlimited supplies of needles to drug addicts

Would you like ME to dig it up for you?

You were going on about how Saudi Arabia has a low rate of HIV infection due to how the legal system there handles drug offenses.

The Saudis and other countries with very, very low drug abuse and the things that go with it DO deal with it differently. Their crime rates and their HIV rates and other outcome based measurement of performance differ significantly from ours.

I was merely pointing out another wonderful aspect of their legal system. The 5 year old probably had it coming.

[himher 634]

Here is a stunning thought for you. A murdered 5 yr old and how a country handles drug trafficking / relationship between drug use and HIV have nothing to do with each other.

Andrea Yates drowned her five children in her Houston-area home 2001, saying she believed Satan was inside her and trying to save them from hell. Her attorneys said she had been suffering from severe postpartum psychosis, and a jury found Yates not guilty by reason of insanity in 2006.

OK. What does the story above about a mom who killed all 5 of her children and got off scot free for it have to do with austerity, HIV, needle exchange programs, or drug trafficking? Maybe in your mind since she was found not guilty the children had it coming huh

You were going on about how Saudi Arabia has a low rate of HIV infection due to how the legal system there handles drug offenses.

I was merely pointing out another wonderful aspect of their legal system. The 5 year old probably had it coming.

Edited February 3, 2013 by himher

[Karee 4,190]

Here is a stunning thought for you. A murdered 5 yr old and how a country handles drug trafficking / relationship between drug use and HIV have nothing to do with each other.

Andrea Yates drowned her five children in her Houston-area home 2001, saying she believed Satan was inside her and trying to save them from hell. Her attorneys said she had been suffering from severe postpartum psychosis, and a jury found Yates not guilty by reason of insanity in 2006.

OK. What does the story above about a mom who killed all 5 of her children and got off scot free for it have to do with austerity, HIV, needle exchange programs, or drug trafficking? Maybe in your mind since she was found not guilty the children had it coming huh

You win sport. Let's lock em all up!!

[Ban Hammer 13,340]

if one wants to discuss the saudi legal system, please start a thread on that.

thanks.