BUSH TAX CUTS NEED TO BE PERMANENT!

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

come to the U.S. and biotch, if you don't like it go! it's very simple.

Spoken like a true American. Or maybe not.

[mawilson 2,133]

Explain to me why two people can queue up at the pharmacy and pay wildly different prices for the same prescription drug. Noone can seem to answer that convincingly.

Because they have different insurance companies or different types of coverage?

[Carol&Marc 0]

come to the U.S. and biotch, if you don't like it go! it's very simple.

Spoken like a true American. Or maybe not.

I have never understood the reasoning that the government was established to give people hand-outs.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Explain to me why two people can queue up at the pharmacy and pay wildly different prices for the same prescription drug. Noone can seem to answer that convincingly.

Because they have different insurance companies or different types of coverage?

Clearly - but who determines what is an acceptable price for drug X?

As I said you only need look at the cost of foreign researched drugs to see the disparity. The government stopped people buying prescription medications from Canada, essentially forcing US Citizens to pay vastly inflated prices. Who's interests are served by that - try convincing the guy that must now pay $150 for something he could have got for a tenth of the price.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

come to the U.S. and biotch, if you don't like it go! it's very simple.

Spoken like a true American. Or maybe not.

I have never understood the reasoning that the government was established to give people hand-outs.

...from the Cato Institute - the mecca of liberalism.

Ending Corporate Welfare As We Know It

Corporate welfare is a huge drain on the federal treasury for little economic benefit. Corporate welfare is supposed to offer a positive long-term economic return for taxpayers. But the evidence shows that government "investments" have a low or negative rate of return.

....

Corporate welfare creates an uneven playing field. Business subsidies, which are often said to be justified because they correct distortions in the marketplace, create huge market distortions of their own. The major effect of corporate subsidies is to divert credit and capital to politically well-connected firms at the expense of their politically less influential competitors. Those subsidies are thus inherently unfair.

....

Corporate welfare fosters an incestuous relationship between business and government. Government and politics are inseparable. Much of what passes today as benign industrial policy is little more than a political payoff to favored industries or businesses. Taxpayer dollars that are used to subsidize private firms are routinely returned to Washington in the form of political contributions and lobbying activities to secure even more tax dollars.

.....

Corporate welfare is anti-capitalist. Corporate welfare converts the American businessman from a capitalist into a lobbyist.

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa225.html

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Corporate welfare is anti-capitalist. Corporate welfare converts the American businessman from a capitalist into a lobbyist.

I must pay more money because....

I must protect the bottom line of the health insurance industry because...

If someone doesn't have health insurance they're lazy

If you don't like your company's health plan you should get another job.

###### up logic.

Edited November 10, 2006 by erekose

[Carol&Marc 0]

Explain to me why two people can queue up at the pharmacy and pay wildly different prices for the same prescription drug. Noone can seem to answer that convincingly.

Because they have different insurance companies or different types of coverage?

Clearly - but who determines what is an acceptable price for drug X?

As I said you only need look at the cost of foreign researched drugs to see the disparity. The government stopped people buying prescription medications from Canada, essentially forcing US Citizens to pay vastly inflated prices. Who's interests are served by that - try convincing the guy that must now pay $150 for something he could have got for a tenth of the price.

EASY......................Move to canada!.............good price for drugs???? nope, paycheck will be twice as small! higher taxes cheaper drugs!...... your still payin. I agree insurance co. should look to canada for there drug plan but it would be just a matter of time before they started up the profit thing.

[mawilson 2,133]

Explain to me why two people can queue up at the pharmacy and pay wildly different prices for the same prescription drug. Noone can seem to answer that convincingly.

Because they have different insurance companies or different types of coverage?

Clearly - but who determines what is an acceptable price for drug X?

I imagine most pharmacies set their retail price based on what their supplier

charges them for the drug, but you're now asking a different question.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Explain to me why two people can queue up at the pharmacy and pay wildly different prices for the same prescription drug. Noone can seem to answer that convincingly.

Because they have different insurance companies or different types of coverage?

Clearly - but who determines what is an acceptable price for drug X?

As I said you only need look at the cost of foreign researched drugs to see the disparity. The government stopped people buying prescription medications from Canada, essentially forcing US Citizens to pay vastly inflated prices. Who's interests are served by that - try convincing the guy that must now pay $150 for something he could have got for a tenth of the price.

EASY......................Move to canada!.............good price for drugs???? nope, paycheck will be twice as small! higher taxes cheaper drugs!...... your still payin. I agree insurance co. should look to canada for there drug plan but it would be just a matter of time before they started up the profit thing.

Actually I'd quite like to see increased regulation of the health insurance industry. That would solve a lot of the problems right there.

[Carol&Marc 0]

Corporate welfare is anti-capitalist. Corporate welfare converts the American businessman from a capitalist into a lobbyist.

I must pay more money because....

I must protect the bottom line of the health insurance industry because...

If someone doesn't have health insurance they're lazy

If you don't like your company's health plan you should get another job.

###### up logic.

Ekerose, if you feed a stray cat they never leave. There are lots of lazy a$$ people out there lookin for the free stuff.

where is the incentive to make it on their own. Soon you got more people taking than giving. social programs dont work.

Edited November 10, 2006 by Carol&Marc

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Explain to me why two people can queue up at the pharmacy and pay wildly different prices for the same prescription drug. Noone can seem to answer that convincingly.

Because they have different insurance companies or different types of coverage?

Clearly - but who determines what is an acceptable price for drug X?

I imagine most pharmacies set their retail price based on what their supplier

charges them for the drug, but you're now asking a different question.

True enough - but the that will be $35/that will be $165 seems a lot like discrimination to me.

These companies are a law unto themselves - they don't need the general public to stick up for them to protect their interests, because unless you are fantastically rich, they are not going to serve yours.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Corporate welfare is anti-capitalist. Corporate welfare converts the American businessman from a capitalist into a lobbyist.

I must pay more money because....

I must protect the bottom line of the health insurance industry because...

If someone doesn't have health insurance they're lazy

If you don't like your company's health plan you should get another job.

###### up logic.

Economic liberalism - which to Marc sounds like French. Can you say Laissez-faire? I'll bet his gay french poodles can.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Corporate welfare is anti-capitalist. Corporate welfare converts the American businessman from a capitalist into a lobbyist.

I must pay more money because....

I must protect the bottom line of the health insurance industry because...

If someone doesn't have health insurance they're lazy

If you don't like your company's health plan you should get another job.

###### up logic.

Ekerose, if you feed a stray cat they never leave. There are lots of lazy a$$ people out there lookin for the free stuff.

where is the incentive to make it on their own. Soon you got more people taking than giving. social programs dont work.

So you wouldn't give a starving man a sandwich?

I'm not advocating social programs here - I'm suggesting that consumers would benefit from increased regulation of the private healthcare system, and that people as a whole (unless you are fantastically rich) get a very bad deal from health insurers.

Economic liberalism - which to Marc sounds like French. Can you say Laissez-faire? I'll bet his gay french poodles can.

Exactly what it is.

[Dean iWait 0]

The tax cuts are about the only thing Bush has done right. If he lets those get rolled back , his presidency will be a total loss as far as I'm concerned.

I agree he has to veto any attempt to roll them back. I can't imagine the Dems would be stupid enough to try and get them rolled back. But who knows.

Dean, are you in the upper 1% percent of the highest incomes? If not, which I seriously doubt you are, Bush's tax cuts did very little to your personal income.

So your telling me a family of 4 with 50k yearly income is the upper 1% of incomes? Before the tax cuts this famly's tax burden was $3,500. After the tax cuts they pay $2,000. Nice try my socialist friend.

You received a 50% percent tax cut?

http://www.cbpp.org/2-5-01tax.htm

The bottom 40 percent of the population would receive just four percent of the tax cuts, about one-ninth what the richest one percent of the population would receive.

Nice try again Steven. You might want to use a more reliable source. From Wikipedia:

Criticisms

The Center on Budget and Policy Priorities has been criticised for producing misleading and left-wing studies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_on_Bud...licy_Priorities

Here is the truth if you can handle it. Bush Tax Cuts Erased Income Tax Burden for 7.8 Million Families!

http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/102.html

The 'wealthy' will receive the majority of any income tax reduction because they pay a disproportionately huge percentage of the income taxes! To structure a tax break such that those in upper income brackets are excluded would constitute nothing more than transfer of wealth from those who have it to those who don't (i.e. legal plunder.)

This is an age old debate - what is each and every American's fair share of the tax burden?

If, starting January 1, you had to pay the government every penny you earn, until all your federal income tax was paid for that year, guess what day that would be.

CTJ shows that the answer depends on your income. If you earn less than $13,600, you're in the lowest fifth of income earners, and you're free on January 1. You pay no income tax. You do owe Social Security, Medicare, cigarette, gasoline, and other federal taxes, which you will pay off (on average $756, 8.8 percent of your income) by February 1.

If you're in the next fifth up (income $13,600 to $24,400), your income tax freedom day is January 4. Your total federal taxes are paid by February 24. On average you are dunned $2,854, 15 percent of your income. Nearly all of that is for Social Security and Medicare.

If you're in the literal middle class, the middle fifth of taxpayers, you earn between $24,400 and $39,300 per year. Your income tax freedom day is January 21; your total federal tax freedom day is March 13. You pay on average $6,195 in federal taxes, about 20 percent of your pre-tax income. Just over half of it goes for Social Security and Medicare.

At this point we've covered 60 percent of tax payers, and income tax freedom day hasn't yet extended into February. It does so for the earners in the fourth fifth ($39,300-$64,900). They would pay their total income tax by February 3, their total federal tax by March 27. They pay on average $12,047, about one dollar out of every four they earn.

So for 80 percent of us, income tax freedom day comes no later than early February. Most of our federal tax goes to Social Security and Medicare, a category the virulent cutters never talk about cutting. Of course the bottom 80 percent is not the group they worry about. They are focused on, they themselves are part of, and they are funded by those who are in the top 20 percent.

CTJ splits this top one-fifth apart, because it covers such a wide range of incomes. For the next 15 percent up the ladder (incomes between $64,900 and $130,000) income tax freedom day comes on February 16; total fed freedom day on April 8.

It's only the top one percent (income over $319,000) that have an income tax freedom day as late as March 30; a total freedom day that reaches into May. These privileged households, average income $915,000, pay on average $339,000 in federal taxes. This top one percent earns 18 percent of all the income in the country, and pays 25 percent of all federal taxes.

What we have, in short, is slightly progressive taxation, somewhat higher for the rich than for the poor. It is based on the classic economic principle of diminishing marginal utility. You spend the first dollars you earn on items of highest utility -- necessities. Being rational, as you earn more, you spend down your priority list, most important things first, least important last. It makes sense and it maximizes national utility to finance public goods more from the low-utility dollars of the rich than from the high-utility dollars of the poor.

http://www.ctj.org/

Holy #######! We might come close to agreeing on somehting Steven. However, Social Security and Medicare is not federal income tax.

When you look at tax rates after the Bush tax cuts it is clear to see the lowest income Americans got the biggest tax rate reduction and the highest income Americans received the least rate reduction. I mean look at this will you?

The top 10% had an average income of $260,000 with 37.6% of all income, paid 50.2% of all federal taxes, with an average federal tax rate of 26.8% and after tax income of $190,400.

The bottom 20% had an average income of $14,800 with 4.2% of total income, receive 5.9% from federal income taxes (they get EITC which is a negative tax) and paid 1% of all federal taxes, for an average tax rate of 4.8% and an average after-tax income of $14,100.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_incidence

I don't see how people can say that this was just a tax cut for the rich when obvoiusly the numbers prove it was not. I do see how some liberals manipulate the math to make it look that way to dupe people. THE TOP 10% PAY MORE THAN HALF OF ALL FEDERAL INCOME TAX!! I mean that still astounds me. And yet we have liberals saying that is not enough. That it's just not fair. Then the lowest income people not only do not pay income tax, THE LOWEST INCOME PEOPLE RECEIVE 5.9% OF FEDERAL INCOME TAX!!

[Carol&Marc 0]

Actually I'd quite like to see increased regulation of the health insurance industry. That would solve a lot of the problems right there.

AGREED damn never thought that would happen