Chinese Birth Certificate - Big Problem - HELP.

[Darnell 8,478]

the bit from travel.state.gov is for VISA.

He's having a problem with USCIS, not DoS.

It'd be nice if the two were consistent, aye?

[seth2013 39]

Wow, this is really tough... although I don't have any advice to offer, I hope you'll keep us updated on how this goes.

I do however, remember reading on the USCIS website that school documentation showing your birth date is important evidence that they consider. If you can submit that, it will only help your case.

[chitowncanuck 0]

There were no responses on the China forum

Well - the CANADIAN embassy (in Chicago) emailed back and I spoke to the guy and he will write something explaining the situation. He didn't understand why the immigration papers didn't help either (go figure).

The Chinese embassy told me to go to China to obtain the birth certificate even though I specifically said we have no hukou. Maybe as long as they just write "no records exist" it will still be ok - will give it a shot (someone else getting it since of course I can't leave the country).

Sucky thing is that my EAD is on hold (and my TN expires in May) - hope I get it all on time!

Thanks everyone...I think at this point this is all I can do. And appeal if they deny it.

Wow, this is really tough... although I don't have any advice to offer, I hope you'll keep us updated on how this goes.

I do however, remember reading on the USCIS website that school documentation showing your birth date is important evidence that they consider. If you can submit that, it will only help your case.

Secondary evidence only works if you can prove primary doesn't exist (which I thought the immigration papers would have done, but no). It has to be an ORIGINAL government letter on government letterhead.

[Villanelle 4,122]

While your situation is tough, is not as complicated as it seems. Basically you have secondary evidence. You just need them to accept it.

So lets review how you get USCIS to accept secondary evidence. Youre going to pick the one you can qualify for-

1-a written statement from the appropriate issuing authority attesting to the fact that no record exists or can be located, or that the record sought was part of some segment of records which were lost or destroyed;

2-evidence (such as an affidavit) "that repeated good faith attempts were made to obtain the required document or record.

It seems like youre going to have to go with number 2.

So what do they want from you? The want you to go to China and get a BC. They want you to have someone else in China get one. They want you to go to an embassy and get one. How do I know this? When you read the submission of documents guidelines from the USCIS it says check the reciprocity schedule on DOS to see if/how someone can obtain a document and they may accept secondary documents if it shows on the DOS site that a document is not available (or you show you made repeated good faith attempts to get it and failed)

So you need to show in your letter, you can not go to China, you know no one in China, and the embassy turned you away.

You seem to have enough or rather lack of documents for all of the above to be possible. You just need to put it all together. Stop saying I already sent in a letter saying I made good faith attempts to get the BC, because according to USCIS guidelines you didnt. The outline for the attempts you have to make are above.- make sure you get a 'we cant help you letter' from the embassy. IMO its going to be the strongest piece as its from the foreign government.

[chitowncanuck 0]

While your situation is tough, is not as complicated as it seems. Basically you have secondary evidence. You just need them to accept it.

So you need to show in your letter, you can not go to China, you know no one in China, and the embassy turned you away.

You seem to have enough or rather lack of documents for all of the above to be possible. You just need to put it all together. Stop saying I already sent in a letter saying I made good faith attempts to get the BC, because according to USCIS guidelines you didnt. The outline for the attempts you have to make are above.- make sure you get a 'we cant help you letter' from the embassy. IMO its going to be the strongest piece as its from the foreign government.

I know you can't see the documents I submitted, but I assure you, I have done that and explained it with all supporting documents.

What I did NOT do was say in my letter was that "I swear that I've tried all means to obtain blah blah blah". So in the next one I will include something a long those lines. Maybe that's the key.

Do you think the USCIS will accept a letter from the Canadian Government????

This is what it says:

To whom it may concern,

As per the request of (me), who is a citizen of Canada, this letter is to confirm that (me) along with her parents entered Canada on xxxx. The family listed that citizenship status at the time as STATELESS and were unable to provide birth records.

Ms. X, born on XXX, was granted Canadian citizenship in XXXX.

XXX

Consular Program Manager

Edited February 1, 2013 by chitowncanuck

[Villanelle 4,122]

No that^ is not going to work. And again, youre saying you have done that(that being submitted something that qualified you to submit secondary evidence) and you havent.

So again. There are only 2 letters you can submit to allow them to accept secondary evidence to be even looked at.

The first would be a letter from China saying no record exists.

The second would be a letter where you state you exhausted all attempts to obtain the records. You attempts would include- going to China or showing you cant. Having someone in China get it for you or showing you know no one there, having the Chinese embassy obtain it or show they can not.

Are you saying you contacted the Chinese embassy prior to this thread being created and your letter of them being unable to assist you was included in your original letter of good faith attempt to USCIS?

Are you saying all three of the items listed in the second letter were included in your good faith attempt letter and documented and it was rejected?

If youre going to submit the second letter- you MUST must must have all three items in it. They must all be documented. Not just two out of three. Or one of three. All three.

IF and only IF you submit letter 2 including proof of your good faith attempts of all three of the ways they want you to obtain your BC and you failed. Then you would be able to appeal it. Because theres no reason for them to deny it.

Im really not sure which part of this youre getting hung up on. I do understand you feel like you sent in a letter explaining you made good faith attempts to get your BC. But do you understand your letter needs to show you made 3 very specific attempts? If it doesnt show those very 3 specific attempts- it doesnt count. IF its not the right letter- it doesnt count and they wont look at your secondary evidence.

The 3 specific attempts are

going to China

having someone in China get it

getting it from the embassy

Your other choice is to forget trying to show you made good faith attempts and get a letter directly from the Chinese gov that says 'no record exists'. This has to be from China and not Canada.

[Darnell 8,478]

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/412137-chinese-birth-certificate-big-problem-help/page__view__findpost__p__5951430

[seth2013 39]

I think she/he did contact the Chinese consulate or Embassy and they told him/her to go to China, which is impossible at the moment.

[Darnell 8,478]

but not the Consulate in Canada, aye?

I'm probably echo-ing what Capri has written -

but basically He has to have a solid chain of evidence

for why he can't produce a chinese birth certificate.

Since he's a Canadien Citizen, having that letter of 'we can't find it' from the Chinese Embassy in Canada makes perfect sense to me.

But it's not just that letter.

He'll need something from the Canadien government as well, noting his (and his parents) status as refugees with subsequent citizenship granted, and maybe even a letter from 'that office' stating that at the time of their intake into the country, a Chinese Birth Certificate was unavailable due to their refugee flight / boat ride out of China.

[little_dreamer 11]

Ok well...my long story short.....I was born in Serbia (but im Bosnian) we came here as refugees when the war happened.......lost everything even doccuments.....spent over a year trying to get my birth certificate (when my mom was going for her citizenship--and i would get mines automatically) and they said that I dont exist....#######....well they i guess let my get my citizenship anyways (i was like 10) well....I thought this might be a problem too this time when doing AOS for my husband....so I just sent in my citizenship certificate and that was it......and there was no problem....maybe your cnadian citizenship could be enough....ask for sure!

[Villanelle 4,122]

The item he has from the Canadian gov and his proof of Canadian citizenship is somewhat relevant and somewhat not relevant.

It supports the fact that he doesnt have a BC, it supports the fact that he and his family are refugees. But it does not support any of his good faith attempts to get the BC. Which is what he needs to show in order for them to look at his secondary evidence. The letter from the Canadian gov and his refugee status is in fact 'secondary evidence'. Or at least in a weird way supporting evidence of the reason why he has secondary evidence to submit.

The letter from Canada itself doesnt qualify him to submit secondary evidence. The fact he was a refugee to Canada doesnt qualify him.

The only 2 ways were the ways I listed above. You either show the doc is not available from the gov or you made good faith attempts to get it and failed.

When you pull up how to get a BC from China on the DOS site- it tells you the 3 specific ways they say you can obtain it. I didnt just make them up.

He must show he failed all 3 of those ways (or they are not possible because of his refugee status/AP/whatever). Only then will they accept his secondary evidence. If the letter from Canada fits into that somehow- great.

If he shows 2 out of the 3 ways are not available to him they will not accept his secondary evidence. They will say, well the 3rd way must be available since you havent shown its not- use it and get the primary evidence. He MUST show all 3 ways are NOT available.

[Villanelle 4,122]

The item he has from the Canadian gov and his proof of Canadian citizenship is somewhat relevant and somewhat not relevant.

It supports the fact that he doesnt have a BC, it supports the fact that he and his family are refugees. But it does not support any of his good faith attempts to get the BC. Which is what he needs to show in order for them to look at his secondary evidence. The letter from the Canadian gov and his refugee status is in fact 'secondary evidence'. Or at least in a weird way supporting evidence of the reason why he has secondary evidence to submit.

The letter from Canada itself doesnt qualify him to submit secondary evidence. The fact he was a refugee to Canada doesnt qualify him.

The only 2 ways were the ways I listed above. You either show the doc is not available from the gov or you made good faith attempts to get it and failed.

When you pull up how to get a BC from China on the DOS site- it tells you the 3 specific ways they say you can obtain it. I didnt just make them up.

He must show he failed all 3 of those ways (or they are not possible because of his refugee status/AP/whatever). Only then will they accept his secondary evidence. If the letter from Canada fits into that somehow- great.

If he shows 2 out of the 3 ways are not available to him they will not accept his secondary evidence. They will say, well the 3rd way must be available since you havent shown its not- use it and get the primary evidence. He MUST show all 3 ways are NOT available.

[chitowncanuck 0]

So just wanted to give everyone an update who was trying to help or just plain curious.

I was NOT able to get a letter from the Chinese Government (no surprise there) or any authority there. So I just went ahead and submitted what I had.

I rewrote the letter in response to the RFE (pretty much saying what I said originally in the first submission) and to satisfy the requirement for an original letter from a qualifying authority on government letterhead, I sent in the one from the Canadian Government and IT WORKED =) --- well, so far.

Interview scheduled for June 3, EAD and AP both approved

Booyah.

[seth2013 39]

So just wanted to give everyone an update who was trying to help or just plain curious.

I was NOT able to get a letter from the Chinese Government (no surprise there) or any authority there. So I just went ahead and submitted what I had.

I rewrote the letter in response to the RFE (pretty much saying what I said originally in the first submission) and to satisfy the requirement for an original letter from a qualifying authority on government letterhead, I sent in the one from the Canadian Government and IT WORKED =) --- well, so far.

Interview scheduled for June 3, EAD and AP both approved

Booyah.

Thanks for keeping us updated. Glad it worked out for you!

[Darnell 8,478]

BooYah! Go Get Em !