Chinese Birth Certificate - Big Problem - HELP.

[chitowncanuck 0]

So I received an RFE today - I was hoping that they wouldn't issue it and just ask during the AOS interview, but alas...here's the situation.

My parents are refugees from Vietnam and moved to Canada when I was 1, HOWEVER, I was born in China. In short, my parents don't have a HUKOU (so I can't go to any Chinese government) and I don't have any family records of birth in China since my parents left for Canada when I was 6 months old.

I'm not sure how I can even obtain a letter from the Chinese government or any Police station or other official Chinese entity.

I submitted my parents' refugee documentation from the Government of Canada plus other documentation showing my date of birth (immunization records from when I was 1 years old etc).

I thought the US Foreign Manual indicated that these types of documentation are generally not available from China thereby waiving my need to get a government letter?!?!

What do I do now?!

Evidence due in 87 days.

Oh, and I can't leave the US (I'm on a TN) and I haven't received my AP yet (it'd be too late by then anyway).

[Jared and May 16]

I strongly recommend you make an Infopass appointment and speak with an immigration officer about your situation. https://infopass.uscis.gov/info_lang.php?sel_lang=en

[Jahwaree 83]

I thought police record was from age 16, get an info pass and sort it out

[Cathi 5,748]

I thought police record was from age 16, get an info pass and sort it out

he is talking about a birth certificate, not PCC. Read the title...

Edited January 31, 2013 by mimolicious

[Cathi 5,748]

So I received an RFE today - I was hoping that they wouldn't issue it and just ask during the AOS interview, but alas...here's the situation.

My parents are refugees from Vietnam and moved to Canada when I was 1, HOWEVER, I was born in China. In short, my parents don't have a HUKOU (so I can't go to any Chinese government) and I don't have any family records of birth in China since my parents left for Canada when I was 6 months old.

I'm not sure how I can even obtain a letter from the Chinese government or any Police station or other official Chinese entity.

I submitted my parents' refugee documentation from the Government of Canada plus other documentation showing my date of birth (immunization records from when I was 1 years old etc).

I thought the US Foreign Manual indicated that these types of documentation are generally not available from China thereby waiving my need to get a government letter?!?!

What do I do now?!

Evidence due in 87 days.

Oh, and I can't leave the US (I'm on a TN) and I haven't received my AP yet (it'd be too late by then anyway).

ask to have this thread moved to the China forum. Perhaps someone there who has been through a similar circumstance can chime in. Good luck!

[Darnell 8,478]

here's a shot in the dark -

contact a China Embassy or Consulate in Canada and ask them what can be done about it.

[chitowncanuck 0]

Thanks for the quick response everyone...I already made an Infopass appointment for tomorrow morning at 7:45am (good thing I live in Chicago!)

I was kind of hoping to see if anyone encountered a situation like mine and had an answer I can't seriously be the only one who's encountered this!

I also double posted in the China forum (sorry moderators if you would like to move this please do).

[Villanelle 4,122]

Okay first- this is the USCISs policy on the availbility of Birth Certificates from China

Notarial certificates of birth, death, marriage, divorce, no criminal record and pre-1981 adoptions are, at best, secondary evidence of the events they purport to document. Although these certificates are secondary evidence, they are used because primary evidence is not standardized, is easily forged, and difficult to evaluate.

Individuals residing outside of China may obtain notarial certificates from the notarial office with jurisdiction over the county of previous residence. Chinese relatives or friends may request issuance of certificates on behalf of someone now living abroad. Relatives and friends should have specific written authorization from the interested party before they request certificates. Alternatively, persons in need of notarial documents may contact the PRC Embassy or Consulate nearest to their residence abroad and ask that the request be forwarded to the appropriate notarial office. Obtaining a notarial certificate through a PRC Embassy or Consulate can require considerable time.

Birth Certificates

Available in the form of notarial certificates, which are secondary evidence. Notarial certificates of birth (Chu Sheng Gong Zheng Shu or Chu Sheng Zheng Ming Shu) for persons living in or recently departed from China are generally reliable, but are best used in conjunction with other evidence. They are most often based upon an AHHR, (Household Record) which is easily susceptible to fraud, especially in villages. Notarial birth certificates for persons long departed from China are most likely based merely upon the testimony of interested parties.

While some notarial birth certificates will list stepparents or adoptive parents along with natural parents, this is not always the case. In some cases, the certificates will list only the natural parents, covering up an adoption.

Some applicants will present notarial certificates of relationship (Guan Xi Gong Zheng [or Zheng Ming] Shu) in lieu of notarial birth certificates. These certificates of relationship are unreliable and tend to be based solely upon the testimony of interested parties. Notarial birth certificates should be required. Care should be taken with any certificate that lists step relationships. These relationships are as of the date of issuance of the certificate only. Marriage certificates should also be required.

So according to USCIS you should be able to obtain your BC by contacting the PRC Embassy or Consulate nearest you.

However- they do have provisions for people who can not obtain primary documents. This may apply to you.

To qualify to submit secondary evidence you need to show either:

a written statement from the appropriate issuing authority attesting to the fact that no record exists or can be located, or that the record sought was part of some segment of records which were lost or destroyed; (thats not you)

or evidence (such as an affidavit) "that repeated good faith attempts were made to obtain the required document or record." (could be you)

So youd need to write a letter explaining how its not possible for you to travel to China to obtain the BC, and its not possible (is it?) for you to obtain the BC from the embassy. You could then attach your secondary evidence. A statement from someone present at the birth perhaps? your immunization record. I dont know. What other evidence do you have? I mean Im trying to help you on the right track here but your post is a little scarce so I dont really have many suggestions on wordings.

[chitowncanuck 0]

To qualify to submit secondary evidence you need to show either:

a written statement from the appropriate issuing authority attesting to the fact that no record exists or can be located, or that the record sought was part of some segment of records which were lost or destroyed; (thats not you)

I can't even prove I was born in China, they will need proof. I don't have anything legal that indicates that I was born in China. They will ask for my parents' hukou (which they don't have).

or evidence (such as an affidavit) "that repeated good faith attempts were made to obtain the required document or record." (could be you)

I did that - no good

So youd need to write a letter explaining how its not possible for you to travel to China to obtain the BC, and its not possible (is it?) for you to obtain the BC from the embassy. You could then attach your secondary evidence. A statement from someone present at the birth perhaps? your immunization record. I dont know. What other evidence do you have? I mean Im trying to help you on the right track here but your post is a little scarce so I dont really have many suggestions on wordings.

Can't leave the US while visa pending so no, I can't travel to China or to the Great White North without an AP. And I submitted an affidavit from my dad. I submitted my immunization record from when I had shots at 6 months. Seriously, I submitted a lot of evidence showing my birth date and who my parents are.

China doesn't issue Birth Certificates but Notorized Letters, which require you showing you were once a Chinese Citizen (which I technically was but not really since I left when I was very young) with a hukou.

Edited January 31, 2013 by chitowncanuck

[Villanelle 4,122]

What did your original letter say?

Was it clearly written? It would have to cover the following points-

You do not have a birth certificate/You are unable to obtain one, reasons being:

-Can't leave the US

-Can not obtain BC from embassy as they will ask for my parents' hukou (unavail for xyz reason)

-do not know anyone in China who can obtain on your behalf

For each of those points you need to show solid proof of repeated good faith attempts or reasons why they are valid. So not being able to leave the US. Show the dates of your application, how you have no AP yet etc. For not having your parents hukou, you have proof of that dont you (with their refugee status?) Perhaps a letter from the embassy saying they cant help you will in fact help you with proving your good faith attempt at securing this document. Not knowing anyone in China. Again, proof that your family is refugees and your parents are not even from China is proof enough you dont have family there. Copies of your parents passports perhaps showing they dont travel to China maybe?

Im sure you have sufficient proof of your birth, you just need to get over this hurdle of getting them to accept your secondary evidence it seems.

Start with the embassy. A letter saying 'we can not help you' will be of tremendous help. Make sure its made out to you, has a date on it and specifically says you came there seeking assistance for a copy of your birth certificate. I really do believe that should show you made a good faith effort to secure the document. According to USCIS, they say- go to the embassy to get your BC, you did and were turned away- thats a good faith attempt. Include that escapade in your letter and they should accept your secondary evidence.

Youd have to rewrite your letter. Quote the various parts of the manuals and what not. Throw their words back at them. Start with, I have made multiple good faith efforts to secure my BC. I visited the embassy to request the appropriate notarial office be notified I needed my BC, however w/o my parents hukou (unavail for x reason) they turned me away- proof attached. I am unable to travel to China because blah blah. (proof) I dont know anyone there who could do this (proof).Even if I did, or I went there myself, it would have the same results as with out the hukou- no BC will be given. I am attaching my secondary evidence. I believe it is more then sufficient. etc etc.

[Brian&Ivy 1]

oh jeez... i think it is hard to find something useful from China Embassy.. However, good luck!!!

[chitowncanuck 0]

This is what USCIS at the Chicago Infopass said

"Sorry, there's nothing we can do, you have to follow the instructions in the yellow paper, otherwise they will deny your petition."

Seriously - didn't even review my documents, I explained my situation and that's all he kept on saying.

No wonder why the office was empty - they are useless there and do not know how to handle things that are not already on the website. They should just close the office and fire them all and stop wasting tax payer's money.

I will rewrite the letter again (I did "throw their words back at them"). I even included the refugee documents that clearly stated our country of origin was "Stateless" so really, how am I going to get a birth certificate from "Stateless".

And it's true, Chinese embassies are very slow unless you want a visa to visit China. I've already contacted the Toronto and Chicago Chinese Embassies, still waiting to hear back.

Thanks guys - this kind of sucks. I might have to do the CR-1 route - they don't require birth certificates apparently...

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

Did you ask for a supervisor at the INFOPASS?

I will request this thread be moved to the China forum; maybe they can help.

Otherwise, I would send back a detailed description of what happened and your parents's status and all that in your reply. I would spell it out for them, not just send in some papers. Do a little hand-holding. I would also include an affidavit of birth from your parents, saying when you were born and under what circumstances, etc.

CR-1 still required a BC so stick to this path and work it out. Worst case - you get a denial and then you appeal and get to explain in front of a judge.

Also, from travel.state.gov: "In cases where birth certificates from the authorities are unavailable or contain insufficient information regarding the birth or the parents, a sworn affidavit executed by either the parents, if living, or other close relatives older than the applicant, may be submitted. It should set forth the relationship between the deponent and the applicant, how well the deponent knows the applicant, date and place of the applicant's birth, the names of both parents, and any other related facts. Such an affidavit, when a birth certificate is unavailable, should be accompanied by a document from a competent governmental authority confirming that the certificate does not exist, or no longer exists."

Maybe you could put in a sword affidavit from your mom in conjunction with something from the Chinese embassy that says no document for you exists.

Edited January 31, 2013 by Harpa Timsah

[Krikit 1,164]

I also double posted in the China forum (sorry moderators if you would like to move this please do).

I will request this thread be moved to the China forum; maybe they can help.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

Ahh, good then.