F1 Approval and then retracted suspiciously!

[Hadya O 2]

A friend of mine in Algeria has been trying to get his F1 Visa. He is registered with an accredited school, he has paid SEVIS and was denied once for "lack of ties". Turns out, he has alot of ties but he just didn't take a sufficient amount of documentation, not really knowing how tough they are on the matter. Second appointment and he takes more than 35 very strong documents covering all areas--financial ability, ties, and good cause for going and intent to return. His visa was approved, although his interviewer was quite rude and during the process as my friend answered his questions, he offered supporting notarized and translated documents to validate each answer. The consular officer barked at him to NOT offer him any document unless he was asked for it. After a longer interview than the previous one, the consular officer told him that he was giving him a visa! Great!! He put together a solid case file and it paid off! The consular officer reminds him that he must return when his course of study is finished, and that he is not eligible to work while in the U.S.. No problem, my friend already knew both of these things. Consular officer directs him to sit in a waiting area for another counter--where he then recieves a congratulatory letter stating that he has just been granted his visa to enter the USA....some directions and information on how his visa will come, what time frame, where to go to check the status of the delivery and at the end ...BON VOYAGE! They also give him a filled out shipping label with his name and their return address info...the label for shipping his passport back to him after they insert the visa. He had already been fingerprinted at this point. He then leaves.

For a week he is preparing for the trip. Uses a small private scholarship fund to secure his airfare 5 days after being approved. Goes to check email for the flight confirmation and finds that earlier that day he had received an email from the Embassy telling him he needs to return to the embassy office at 8:30 am to be "re-finger printed". He responds to them via email letting them know that he cannot come that following morning at 8:30 am (the trip is 11 hours round trip), and he can't make it this day--and can someone please contact him to schedule another day and time. They called the next morning asking why he had not shown up for his appointment. He told her that he had informed them by responding to their email, that he was not able to come on such short notice. She then asks if he can come at 4 pm. He again tells her he cannot come at all today, can you please schedule me another day and time--perhaps tomorrow. She tells him someone will call him back. A couple of hours later, she calls back and then proceeds to ask him several of the questions he's already gone through his his interview--as if he re-interview him over the phone! Her line of questioning is regarding finances...which are impeccable. Between a sponsorship, small scholarship and cash he has in the bank---he has enough to pay for his courses 4 times over! THEN....she drops a bomb. "Your visa is denied, because you did not prove your ties." Excuse me????!!!!! Did I just miss something???? The interview was already done, any documents the consular officer wanted/felt the need to see, he had ready access to and he determined that they were enough by approving the visa. The entire process was followed for one who recieved a visa--letters and shipping labels in hand to show that he was sent out the door being told that his visa was approved and is now officially in processing for delivery. Then, suddenly new finger prints are needed. Then, hours later--visa is denied for not having proven ties? What kind of cruel joke is this? Are the three stooges running this office? Now--I know people will say, maybe a criminal record was found, maybe this maybe that---and I'm telling you there is nothing--except what Im telling you here. There is something very fishy going on. My thought is that the embassy boasts that its consular officers are very highly trained and skilled to be able to review documents in a very short time, and ask questions and make decisions in a matter of approximately 2 minutes. This interview lasted longer than 2 minutes, and their highly skilled and trained consular officer approved a visa based on what he learned in this interview. Now--I don't know who is behind whatever has happened since then, but do they have the right to call someone and seeminly continue the interview a week later? I thought that this is what the Administrative Review status was for...when they felt they needed to research or ask for more info. I'm so embarrassed, confused and disappointed in the staff of this office. I am working with the Senator and Congresswomans office here to try to get some resolve, but I wont hear anything until Monday--and this is really bothering me. Anyone? Any previous Embassy workers who know what is legal and not? Thanks!!

[Darnell 8,479]

Can a consulate officer just change their mind a week after approving?

Absolutely! Especially when something untoward occurs, leading said officer to not believe the evidence presented.

[Hadya O 2]

Can a consulate officer just change their mind a week after approving?

Absolutely! Especially when something untoward occurs, leading said officer to not believe the evidence presented.

[Hadya O 2]

I don't know what they would have found--nothing is misrepresented. And also--the chain of events are very suspicious. If the consular officer had found something that was questionable to them, they should have questioned it when the first interview was held. In addition, they first asked him to come for "re-finger printing". If you are a professional entity and you found something--say someone lied and said they did not have a criminal record but they did--then you would contact that person in writing, divulging what was found and citing that 1. The criminal activity precludes from the visa(I don't know if it does, I'm just using it as an example), and 2. That this was lied about on the application, therefore the visa was denied. You WOULD NOT send an email telling someone that they needed to return to the office to be "re-finger printed", leading them to believe that something just went wrong with the finger printing process and needed to be re-done. They offered two different times to come for the finger printing on the same day--but he simply couldn't make the journey. Then suddenly two hours later his entire visa is denied? Makes no sense!

[MedRoni 161]

You keep saying "he" as in your friend, but at the end of your original post you said you were embarrassed and you were working with the congressman and it really is bothering you.

Small discrepancies like this made here are no big deal - but any made at all during the interview can make a CO think twice. Maybe there was differences in something your friend answered between the first time and the phone call.

The Algerian embassy is very though and actually my husband was called back after being approved his visa for something they needed. While he was not denied after the fact - it is entirely possible as Darnell said. It is never really a done deal until it is in your hands. That is also why it is has been cautioned a million times here to never purchase a plane ticket before visa is in hand

Edited January 27, 2013 by MedRoni

[Hadya O 2]

I'm not sure what your point is with the part about me saying "he" as in my friend. Yes, I am embarrassed, because this embassy represents my country, and I have a list of indescrepancies and bad behavior on their part. I am the CEO of a Corporation and we help facilitate international students. I happen to have hosted one recently and this one as well, I know their families, as I was hosted by some of their extended family on a several month tour of Algeria. So whatever you are implying with the first part of your comment, you're way off base. It is indeed bothering me--because I'm watching things unfold that should not be unfolding. In fact, the congressional office is seeing it too, admittedly.

Just because your experience with the Algerian embassy may have been a good one, doesn't speak for hundreds of others that are likely treated in the same manner as my friend/facilitated student. When the behavior for over 6 months, of an embassy, has congressional offices who employ full time immigration liasons raising their eyebrows in shock--there is something wrong.

They tell you not to book your airline ticket until you have your visa--but many people read that as, if a consular officer tells you that you are granted a visa, and hands you all the paperwork that says congratulations you have been granted your admission into the US, and your visa will be to you within four days via UPS, and here is your shipping label for tracking purposes, that is pretty much for most people their idea of "having" their visa. And, when this is told to you, and you only have a couple of weeks before your college courses are to begin, then you go home and begin the planning process. Booking an airline ticket less than two weeks in advance is so expensive--so in this case, it was booked a week after with the expectation that the visa would arrive within the next day or so.

Might I add, that you are pointing out irrelevant facts. My question is--is it legal for them, if they have already had the opportunity to review someones documents and proof, to go back on a decision they made? And I'm not stupid--so I dont need anyone to say, yes, if there is fraud or whatever. Of course--we're not stupid. But there is no misrepresentation or fraud here--they cited that it was for "lack of ties". Well, the 35 documents that you reviewed Mr. Consular officer seemed to be enough to convince you of solid ties when you approved the visa. So how can a week later, you suddenly decide that there aren't enough ties. If there was any question in the mind--administrative review process would have been the appropriate direction for this case--not approval. It's like DMV driving test instructor passing someone to get their license and then a week later saying---oh, I decided I didn't like the way you made that left hand yield turn. Its just ridiculous!

[Hadya O 2]

I'm not sure what your point is with the part about me saying "he" as in my friend. Yes, I am embarrassed, because this embassy represents my country, and I have a list of indescrepancies and bad behavior on their part. I am the CEO of a Corporation and we help facilitate international students. I happen to have hosted one recently and this one as well, I know their families, as I was hosted by some of their extended family on a several month tour of Algeria. So whatever you are implying with the first part of your comment, you're way off base. It is indeed bothering me--because I'm watching things unfold that should not be unfolding. In fact, the congressional office is seeing it too, admittedly.

Just because your experience with the Algerian embassy may have been a good one, doesn't speak for hundreds of others that are likely treated in the same manner as my friend/facilitated student. When the behavior for over 6 months, of an embassy, has congressional offices who employ full time immigration liasons raising their eyebrows in shock--there is something wrong.

They tell you not to book your airline ticket until you have your visa--but many people read that as, if a consular officer tells you that you are granted a visa, and hands you all the paperwork that says congratulations you have been granted your admission into the US, and your visa will be to you within four days via UPS, and here is your shipping label for tracking purposes, that is pretty much for most people their idea of "having" their visa. And, when this is told to you, and you only have a couple of weeks before your college courses are to begin, then you go home and begin the planning process. Booking an airline ticket less than two weeks in advance is so expensive--so in this case, it was booked a week after with the expectation that the visa would arrive within the next day or so.

Might I add, that you are pointing out irrelevant facts. My question is--is it legal for them, if they have already had the opportunity to review someones documents and proof, to go back on a decision they made? And I'm not stupid--so I dont need anyone to say, yes, if there is fraud or whatever. Of course--we're not stupid. But there is no misrepresentation or fraud here--they cited that it was for "lack of ties". Well, the 35 documents that you reviewed Mr. Consular officer seemed to be enough to convince you of solid ties when you approved the visa. So how can a week later, you suddenly decide that there aren't enough ties. If there was any question in the mind--administrative review process would have been the appropriate direction for this case--not approval. It's like DMV driving test instructor passing someone to get their license and then a week later saying---oh, I decided I didn't like the way you made that left hand yield turn. Its just ridiculous!

[MedRoni 161]

I'm not sure what your point is with the part about me saying "he" as in my friend. Yes, I am embarrassed, because this embassy represents my country, and I have a list of indescrepancies and bad behavior on their part. I am the CEO of a Corporation and we help facilitate international students.

You had not stated any of this until now so I was just explaining how it looks like based on the information you have given us. Additional information that helps clear things up always makes for better feedback.

Just because your experience with the Algerian embassy may have been a good one, doesn't speak for hundreds of others that are likely treated in the same manner as my friend/facilitated student.

A never said my husband's was a good experience. I said he was also called back after his approval. Although his interview was pleasant, the embassy marked him as a no show for his interview and he got lost in their system. So do they have issues to work on? Sure. Is it legal for them to approve and then deny a visa? Under certain circumstances sure. Under yours? Maybe they shouldn't have, but only immigration law can answer that. Maybe ask a lawyer.

They tell you not to book your airline ticket until you have your visa--but many people read that as, if a consular officer tells you that you are granted a visa, and hands you all the paperwork that says congratulations you have been granted your admission into the US, and your visa will be to you within four days via UPS, and here is your shipping label for tracking purposes, that is pretty much for most people their idea of "having" their visa.

People are warned for a reason. We were told in writing he would have the visa in hand in 10 days. He actually got it a month later.

I agree with you it is ridiculous what happened and is most likely unfair, but it is not unheard of unfortunately.

[Hadya O 2]

Well, I guess we'll see how it goes. I know quite a few people who have horror stories about how they were treated at this embassy. There is one woman there who has her claim to fame for being rude and saying things that would be sued over here in the states. I believe that these people get power drunk--and they are in a foreign country where, while they may work for the U.S., they are outside of our country where laws are different. Often they are working with underdeveloped or developing countries. I dont think that most Algerians have an advocate to stand up for them and say--hey this isn't right!! Any American who would be treated like my friend has been treated in the last year by this embassy would have sued and won enough to retire on. It disheartening--primarily because I don't believe that people should be demoralized in the process of trying to decide whether they should be given a ticket into the melting pot, but also because with the state of world affairs, we should be treating people in other countries with respect, not kicking them. We don't need people in other countries thinking badly of our government, and these are the sorts of things that do that. Its one thing to be denied a visa--cleanly. The first time my friend went to his appointment, they denied the visa and admittedly he said that he didn't know exactly what to take to constitute ties. After matching the bonds he has with his country to the suggested things from others, he found that his ties are very compelling. The consular officer made a decision based on this. And to say a week later, after asking him to come back the same day for re-finger printing, to then suddenly say denied---stink of something rotten. So--why did they ask him to come back for re-finger printing? If they determined Were they lying to him to get him back to the embassy office? What exactly was their intent--and what is at work here? Also--if there was an issue, why wait 5 days? And they are obligated to give someone in writing the reason for the deny...why not send an email explaining what the problem is? An applicant pays $160.00 for an average of 2 minutes to present their case and give compelling evidence for a visa approval. They don't get to come back in a week to add more info if they dont get the job done right the first time. It doesn't seem right, that if these "highly trained and skilled" CO's who can supposedly read a 200 page stack of documents and scan what they need to see, ask a few questions and make an on the spot decision, should have an opportunity to take a week to change his mind and decide that his judgment was #######. What does that say about the CO? None of this adds up--and the congressional offices (both Federal Senator and Congresswoman) agree that no matter how this unfolds--it makes the embassy officials look bad. I was hoping that someone here could quote me some legal info that might help me understand what the legal grounds are for this, IF there are any. At any rate--I'm very happy that your husband got his visa!

[Darnell 8,479]

My question is--is it legal for them, if they have already had the opportunity to review someones documents and proof, to go back on a decision they made?

Absolutely !