Em yeu called consulate...

[chuckandkim 0]

Lurker,

I admire your courage to fight the broken system. However, here is where I see it: HCMC didn't ask for all the vietnamese people who fake their marriage to come to America. They didn't ask to work on fraudulen K1 and K3 cases, but they still do. It is NOT perfect, the vietnamese staffs are notoriously known to be rude and unprofessional to ALL beneficiaries, not just your "em".

Here is a thought, say... you go over there (HCMC) and straighten the Chief Officer out, give him a lesson how to run his vietnamese staffs. He takes your advice and decides to "STOP all K1 and K3 applicants, cancel all interviews while he's trying to replace his experienced but unprofession vietnamese staffs based on your recommendation. This change promps a "delay" for others, included many vietnamese/american folks whose fiance and wife are waiting for the interview at the consulate. I think they would be very upset because of your good intention to "fix an imperfect system".

Go North, now you're at the Embassy in Hanoi. Speaking to the Embassador. Say, he got really displeased of what you brought to his attention and decides to close down HCMC and replace all the staffs there, vietnamese and american. Since, you brought it to his attention that the whole staffing and the system in HCMC is just #######... This will cause even more delay!

I am playing the devil's advocate here, just to give you another point of view. Of course, HCMC does not have a perfect system, procedure and process in place, but it is the BEST we got. It's still a MUCH BETTER system to bring your wife here than having her crossing the Boarder from Mexico. I personally felt your anger and the disrepectfulness by the vietnamese staff toward my wife Kim when she arrived the first times at HCMC. But, I must say, I do not have time to be bothered by the little people who work for HCMC, they are not the one who will decide my wife's K1 approval. They can be rude all they way, just make sure my wife gets her PINK slip. My objective was NOT the rudeness of the staff by the front door, or how they lie to my wife when she calls, who cares, get me the PINK slip and a Visa. Stay focus is what I'm trying to tell you Lurker! You just started this process, this is the least you should be concern about.... Ask people here, they've seen the good/bad/ugly of the Vietnamese staffs in Saigon, so what... That's just part of the process, I don't have time for the little people...

Just thought I would share with you...

[Icarus 0]

Today marks 3 months since the interview and re-submitting evidences. On sunday night, I plan on calling the embassy and asking the status and to find out what of our original signed documents has an expiration date and will need to be resubmitted (ie. letter of intent, shot record, police records???). What are my chances of getting a detailed, specific answer??

UPDATE: I called Sunday night and the girl I talked with was very polite, but the response was the same. Still pending review, no timeframe. And when I asked about providing updated documents, I was told that "nothing should be sent now, as they have all the evidences needed to make a decision, and if additional information is needed, it will be requested at THAT time." Hopes this helps others in the same boat.

Icarus, you can make an appointment to talk to the Chief of the Information Unit, not the CO.

I stand corrected. Thanks!

[CK&Tydi 0]

Maybe we are impatient, but she called consulate in HCMC and ask them if they can send the packet via currier, but they said they can have her cousin in HCMC get it for her, and then her cousin can send it to Hanoi. YAY!!!

Well, turns out that the consulate lied (No surprise there) that they mailed out the packet 3 11/23. Em got the packet today and it was post marked 11/02. Doesn't matter anyways because she already submitted the packet 3 paperwork already and sent it via dhl.

Just confirms that the staff at HCMC consulate are lacking in quality service. However, this has been noted and entered into my log as more evidence and such to submit to the consular general when I get there in HCMC and make an appointment with him.

I am also going to find a way to make an appointment with the ambassador there in Hanoi as well.

I am not one to sit idle by and let things just be broken. I want to help fix this ####### that occurs here for future fellow VJers.

Lurker, you got to calm down. You think your 2 cents will work with the Government in VN? Have you ever thought why US quit the War (LOST May I said). All the systems in any countries are craps and got a loop hole so does the US. So you got to calm down and be patient. You know one thing, the system in VN is similiar to Mexico. You mess with them hheeh you will end up in the ......... So calm down and pray that your fiance will get the Pink Slip. Just do not think you serve the Military then you are god. You are wrong. Plus, you thought, 40K+ a year and a few K paid in taxes then you can say much. Think it twice before doing anythings else will harm the others. Plus what ever you had logged, when you spoke to them worthed nothing.. Ask your fiance then you will know. That is the reason why she wants to get marry to you so she can move to the state.. FREEDOOM.. got it? That is my 2 cents for you.

Calm down and wait like the rest of us.

Edited November 14, 2006 by CK&Tydi

[chuckandkim 0]

CK&Tydi,

I don't believe Lurker meant to give a lesson to the Vietnamese Government, he wants to take care the Vietnamese staffs who disrespect his fiance at HCMC by bringing his complain to the Chief and US Ambassador in Ha Noi.

[Lurker 0]

Lurker, you got to calm down. You think your 2 cents will work with the Government in VN? Have you ever thought why US quit the War (LOST May I said). All the systems in any countries are craps and got a loop hole so does the US. So you got to calm down and be patient. You know one thing, the system in VN is similiar to Mexico. You mess with them hheeh you will end up in the ......... So calm down and pray that your fiance will get the Pink Slip. Just do not think you serve the Military then you are god. You are wrong. Plus, you thought, 40K+ a year and a few K paid in taxes then you can say much. Think it twice before doing anythings else will harm the others. Plus what ever you had logged, when you spoke to them worthed nothing.. Ask your fiance then you will know. That is the reason why she wants to get marry to you so she can move to the state.. FREEDOOM.. got it? That is my 2 cents for you.

Calm down and wait like the rest of us.

"You think your 2 cents will work with the Government in VN?"

You loose credibility right from the start by making this statement. I wasn't talking about the Vietnamese Government; I was talking about the U.S. government.

"Have you ever thought why US quit the War (LOST May I said)."

What does this have to do with anything? Just a bomb to throw my way I will take it as that.

"You know one thing, the system in VN is similar to Mexico."

Again, I wasn't talking about the Vietnamese Government; I was talking about the U.S. government.

"Just do not think you serve the Military then you are god."

I re-read my statement over and over to find the words where I said I thought I was God. I don't think I am God, but I am a very proud American and need my OWN Embassy to display that same pride when abroad by hiring people to reflect that.

"Plus, you thought, 40K+ a year and a few K paid in taxes then you can say much."

What? Doesn't make sense. Again I am just setting up to the readers of how deep my pride is for my country, and you got it wrong...I pay 40+ K in taxes a year...not make 40+ k year. Does this make me a better person? NO, does it make me feel I have high stakes in what my country is doing overseas? YES.

You attacked me personally and my wife personally by making these statements. You bring up the Vietnam War when there is no need to bring this up. You make statements about the war when there is no need to bring this up. I simply need a place to vent sometimes (as others do too)...people like you that criticize others on this forum just because they need an outlet are wrong. You are the only one that made offensive remarks when others made supporting remarks. People like you keep others from having an outlet which is the purpose of these forums.

Next time you have something smart ####### to say…keep it to yourself!

[CK&Tydi 0]

CK&Tydi,

I don't believe Lurker meant to give a lesson to the Vietnamese Government, he wants to take care the Vietnamese staffs who disrespect his fiance at HCMC by bringing his complain to the Chief and US Ambassador in Ha Noi.

Chuck,

It will not work so don't waste your breath on this issues. Some of them got hired for that purpose.. They will give you a hard time and mean. So they can scare of some of the fakers. If you are sincere, then you will have to follow through the system to get your love one here.

If Lurker, can voice the issue to the one in Hanoi? then i will support him. From my opinion, it will not work...... so dont' waste your breath......

Edited November 14, 2006 by CK&Tydi

[CK&Tydi 0]

Lurker,

gosh, i lost the edit page..

anyway, all i can say to you is.. CALM DOWN..............

IF you know the system we got in the State such as: DMV, INS, IRS, or any other services here.. They are slow and incompetent people work there.. Sometimes they know what the heck they are doing...... I had been dealing with the systems here a lot and personally i do work for some sort of the government systems here at my work place. I saw all the lazy people here all the time. About 85% of them do not work and sit around.. So they are just human and human make errors. If you comply with all the paper work they send you then you should be ok........ Just wait and be patient..

So you think your complain about the US system in oversea country will help? it will slow things down......

Not to personally attacking you and your wife........... I am in the same boat with you, to get my wife here like any other people on this forum. Bottom line is, FREEDOM, that what you got here. Just dont' compare freedom and voiced here will work in foreign country.. It will complicate thing more. IF you ask your wife personally about the way they work, similar to Mexico or any other country...........

I am not trying to be smart ####### or anything.. just want you to know the system overseas work different and the people there work different way too.

Anyway, we are here to learn and help each other out.. not creating another war among us.

Another word, I undestand well about the systems in Vietnam. So CALM DOWN AND BE PATIENT are the Keys.

Peace out.........

Edited November 14, 2006 by CK&Tydi

[chuckandkim 0]

System in Vietnam? What system?

The only system you're dealing with is US Government where they staff a lot of vietnamese as "balls-breaker", first line of defense, who have absolutely no authority over you but if you ask your fiance, it's a different story!!!! That is how thing runs in VN. If you're bothered by some "little people" who "THINK" they have the power over you and your wife... then...don't be! This is happening every day in Vietnam, in every place of authority (Post Office, District Office, Ward Office, People Committee Office run by Vietnamese officials and government workers), so why would it be difference in the front office of a US Government in Vietnam, which operates and runs by the vietnamese. Can't change them, that ereogan attitude and behavior is "the core value of 35 years under communist reign". folks from communist countries can understand this point more so than Americans. These folks have so little, that when they do have the smallest amount of power, they make sure they put it in use. Just to make up and take it out on their lack of quality of life and living under substandard condition. These vietnamese staffs are trained and taught to be suspicious of anyone and anything. You will get to be like that when you live under constant watched by the police state! Again, can't change them! Think the Embassy will hire new staffs, doubt it they will, just more of the same thing.

You don't need to calm down either Lurker, just redirect that "energy" toward building your case, story, evidence and proof to back up your fiance's visa application. You are not the first one who brought up this point of anger. We ALL did one time or another during our process of getting the Visa. Stay focus ok! Get your Visa, then see if later on, you still want to go back and put your foot up their arses... then do.

[CK&Tydi 0]

Hehehhe. well, you got the point across Chuck better than me Chuck. My main point why let those people made you mad and pissed off..... Be humble and get your papper works all repair and bring your love one here. The way they run in VietNam will change in matter of time. I had seen it progressed for the the past 17 years. I saw a lot of improvement but still, it needs time to change thing. ;=). The only way i see it will change when younger generation take over the power and run it, then it can be better.

Anyway, on the part of ####### kicking.. just forget it, they will kick your ####### if you touch them. that is all. Or the those guys at 113 number will hit you with no Mercy if you have deal with them before. ?

Anyway, for this matter, do we have any better guide line for the people in here after they receive the NOA2.

What is the next steps the Petitioner and Beneficiary should do: This way we can have smoother process

[john_and_marlene 162]

I say go for it. Too many people forget that government officials are employees of the people. If you don't get satisfaction, you complain to whoever appointed them. If they don't give you satisfaction, you vote against them. One voice may not get immediate action, but if noone ever makes their concerns heard, nothing will be improved. Go along to get along caused a lot of deaths up until the end of WWII because people turned their heads the other way.

[chuckandkim 0]

John and Marlene,

Vietnam is not a Democratic State. It's a 1 Party system, runs by the dictationship masked by a "Communist Party". Voting is done by the fews who already chose their next government officials within the communist party members. All laws enforced, people are being monitored and watched closely by the police. It's a Police State. I am not sure if voting means anything or carry much weight in Vietnam. At least not right now!

I would pick my battle, but that just me!

[Lurker 0]

John and Marlene,

Vietnam is not a Democratic State. It's a 1 Party system, runs by the dictationship masked by a "Communist Party". Voting is done by the fews who already chose their next government officials within the communist party members. All laws enforced, people are being monitored and watched closely by the police. It's a Police State. I am not sure if voting means anything or carry much weight in Vietnam. At least not right now!

I would pick my battle, but that just me!

Some of this is true chuck, but not exactly. It is a bit more open to voting, and they implement what they vote on.

The party is very worried now in their future about too much change, too fast for Vietnam as to destroy the traditional ways. They are always apprehensive about making radical changes too fast....even more so, radical changes that change the traditional cultural values of the Vietnamese people.

I know all of this as my Vo is a party member; her membership was handed down through her father and mother not without earning her way through years of schooling. It is just not easily passed on. It is very hard to stay a party member as well as become one even if it is recommended by the older generations. You can become a party member even if your family wasn't one before, but you have to go through the rigorous training and schooling to become one just as if you were recommended by a senior member.

As for others that want to bring up the war....The Vietnamese people (specifically the North) have more reason to hate the Chinese, and the French as they have endured 1000 years of war with the Chinese, and 100 years of war with the French. The "American" war as they call it is of only a spec in their memory (a mere 10 years).

My Vo and I have had many hours and countless trips of me going there to be with her to discuss this aspect of Vietnam and the future as well as how we integrate each others beliefs to form a family. I can tell you this has not been complicated. It was fairly easy. Her father and mother, Viet Cong (Vietnamese Communist), don’t hate me nor do they hold any grudges towards Americans. Like I said before, they have more reason to hate the Chinese and the French than they do Americans.

Her father 69 years old simply stated this when I asked him “Do you hate me?” he said “The war was too long ago, 30 years. Most have forgotten and moved forward.” you are my son now.

Remember, this is the first generation in over a thousand years that didn’t have to fight in a war.

[wait4ever 0]

On another note, she initially called the consulate 3 times...the first 2 times she got someone very rude on the phone. The 3rd time was a charm and she got a nice well spoken lady on the phone. She kept this from me until this morning when she let it slip that these 2 ladies were nasty to her. Naturally I flipped out and was very angry. So I wrote a letter and printed it out to several copies and mailed it around today.

Now, I have instructed for her whenever she talks to anybody at the consulate (via phone, interview anything..etc) she is to get thier name first and record that. I won't waste anytime next time I am in HCMC to go visit the consulate there and break my foot off up in their #######!!!

Good job with the packet 3 Lurker! On the other note, it is very NORMAL and EXPECTED for Beneficiary to be treated as ####### and begger when they deal with the Vietnamese staffs at HCMC. Nothing new, and nobody ever succeed in breaking a foot up thers... You'd be too happy to get a Visa, you'd not even care what happened 6 months before... but maybe you would....

It's really sad when rude treatment is expected from an arm of the US government. This comes up often here on VJ, and this type of rude service from US Consulates and Embassies must end.

Some here assert that the rude and arrogant behavior are a makeup of the average Vietnamese goverment bureucrat. If you compare stories with other foreign nationals conducting business at US posts, you get similar comparisons. I would argue that the arrogant behavior is not endemic of the Vietnamese staff, but that it is a learned behavior from their American employers. However, the same conditions exist that make Vietnamese government employees and Vietnamese employees of the US Consulate arrogant and rude: lack of government oversight, no incentive to provide friendly service, and no accountability to the public that they serve.

There is a long tradition of arrogance at the US State department. Staffed by highly educated people and armed with laws that make their opinion omnipotent, rarely challenged by the judiciary and few checks and balances that protect the US citizen during the visa process, these folks have run amok. They set their own agendas with little say from the general public.

The list of people fed up with the way they treat the public is long. Just spend some time on VJ and read all the disparaging stories. I myself have expereinced rude and arrogant treatment at the HCMC Consulate for over three years now. And we can all line up behind Senator Joe Biden, who publicy complained about US State Department arrogance when he was seeking employment documentation about John Bolton. Look for this issue to heat up again as Team Bush try to push final confirmation of John Bolton past a Democrat controlled senate within the next couple months.

US Consular staff do have their challenges. They are understaffed, something I have noticed from my own visits there. There are no US staff supervising the Vietnamese info staff as they interact and accept or deny information being submitted at the windows. This is where a lot of the rude behavior happens. I'm sure they do deal with plenty of fraud, but is that a reason to be rude, curt, or arrogant? Your average Police officer deals with many different individuals every day, from hardened criminals to upstanding citizens. Would it be appropriate for Police officers to treat everyone they come in contact with, like a criminal? How would the general public respond to that kind of attitude?

I hope that the future holds some kind of change for attitudes at the US State Department. Their whole approach to service needs addressing. I don't know where that is going to come from or who holds that kind of leverage.

Lurker, I would encourage you to make your feelings known to those in positions of responsibility. Do so in a diplomatic manner and they might even listen to you. I doubt that they will do anyting about it. State department employees have more of a vested interest in covering each other's butts than in improving service to the public. However, someone has to stand up and say something. Go for it.

[GOSSIPSAIGON 0]

Maybe we are impatient, but she called consulate in HCMC and ask them if they can send the packet via currier, but they said they can have her cousin in HCMC get it for her, and then her cousin can send it to Hanoi. YAY!!!

Well, turns out that the consulate lied (No surprise there) that they mailed out the packet 3 11/23. Em got the packet today and it was post marked 11/02. Doesn't matter anyways because she already submitted the packet 3 paperwork already and sent it via dhl.

Just confirms that the staff at HCMC consulate are lacking in quality service. However, this has been noted and entered into my log as more evidence and such to submit to the consular general when I get there in HCMC and make an appointment with him.

I am also going to find a way to make an appointment with the ambassador there in Hanoi as well.

I am not one to sit idle by and let things just be broken. I want to help fix this ####### that occurs here for future fellow VJers.

President Bush is there now. Why don't you call him and complain directly?? Is it better than seeing the ambassador? one advice for you, be nice to those people; otherwise your file might end up in the trash can!!!

[Lurker 0]

"President Bush is there now. Why don't you call him and complain directly??"

Trying to be a wise guy? Trying to bust my ballz?

"one advice for you, be nice to those people; otherwise your file might end up in the trash can!!!"

And you know this how? Have experience? You know someone who has done this?

Stop the fishing...and while I am on the subject, I have some advice to you...if you don't have something constructive to say...keep it to yourself.