Shooting at Lone Star College in north Houston

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

[quote name=' timestamp='1358910004' post='5936588]

Of a moderator? Yes.

[Ban Hammer 13,762]

you give a red herring, you get a red herring. don't want a red herring, don't offer one. k?

you might wish to review the previous, you brought up cars and speeding first.

I'd approach it from the other end. It's your gun, you're responsible for it and any damage it causes. Think people would figure out how to secure their guns.

yet somewhere in there is a reasonable effort by the firearm owner to secure the firearm.

You need one background check per person. It's not a ruinous expense. If you want to pass down a car, it will need to be re-registered. Who pays for that? If you want to pass down your house, there are fees involved with that. So what? That's just another red herring, Chuck.

cars and homes are titled. firearms are not titled.

also - it's charles, not chuck. thanks.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

you might wish to review the previous, you brought up cars and speeding first.

only in response to an old red herring you threw my way

yet somewhere in there is a reasonable effort by the firearm owner to secure the firearm.

As soon as there is a personal liability risk involved, gun owners will re-evaluate what constitutes a reasonable effort. Little bit of personal responsibility often goes a long way.

cars and homes are titled. firearms are not titled.

Let's fix that, then. No opposition from this end.

also - it's charles, not chuck. thanks.

no problem.

Edited January 23, 2013 by Mr. Big Dog

[Ban Hammer 13,762]

only in response to an old red herring you threw my way

what herring - that magazines can be made?

As soon as there is a personal liability risk involved, gun owners will re-evaluate what constitutes a reasonable effort.

i'd rather have the state make an informed decision about what constitutes a reasonable effort with a law than depend on a shyster lawyer trying to convince a jury about fault.

Let's fix that, then. No opposition from this end.

i'd rather have my vehicle and home titled rather than untitled.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

what herring - that magazines can be made?

yes. that red herring against outlawing high capacity magazines. there are always ways to defy a law of man. That doesn't mean that these laws sere no valid purpose. The laws that you can't get around - the laws of nature - don't require legislation.

i'd rather have the state make an informed decision about what constitutes a reasonable effort with a law than depend on a shyster lawyer trying to convince a jury about fault.

Fine, let the states pass that law. Gun owners still ought to be held liable for their guns. States with stricter laws would then probably end p having lower gun liability insurance premiums than those where the laws are loose. That would make gun owners an interested party in ensuring that effective laws are passed. That's what I mean with personal responsibility going a long way.

i'd rather have my vehicle and home titled rather than untitled.

So would I. I'd also rather have your guns titled, too.

[Ban Hammer 13,762]

yes. that red herring against outlawing high capacity magazines. there are always ways to defy a law of man. That doesn't mean that these laws sere no valid purpose. The laws that you can't get around - the laws of nature - don't require legislation.

i'm simply stating that they can be made. one just needs to make the body as the other parts (spring, follower, bottom plate) can be acquired as refurbishment parts. if necessary, the spring can be made too, the bottom plate and follower can be used from other lesser capacity magazines. in essence, just because they are against the law does not mean they cannot be made and quite simply at that by anyone with a modest sheet metal fabrication background. that is all i was trying to impart.

Fine, let the states pass that law. Gun owners still ought to be held liable for their guns. States with stricter laws would then probably end p having lower gun liability insurance premiums than those where the laws are loose. That would make gun owners an interested party in ensuring that effective laws are passed. That's what I mean with personal responsibility going a long way.

you may be happy to know that all of mine that are working are secured. the only ones that aren't aren't usable (one's a lamp, the other is a decoy gun that's inoperable).

So would I. I'd also rather have your guns titled, too.

i believe i have a say so in that, since they are my guns....

[natty bumppo 297]

No, that's not what I said. You are saying that we can't do anything by passing legislation since these perps break the law anyway. I just listed a few examples to demonstrate just how ridiculous that line of argument really is.

maybe you are starting to learn ...

you gave examples of people who broke many laws to commit their crimes. yet you want to enact even more laws to make it even more of a crime ...

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

maybe you are starting to learn ...

you gave examples of people who broke many laws to commit their crimes. yet you want to enact even more laws to make it even more of a crime ...

No, read the whole post. Don't stop just with the part you want to read. As I said, following your train of thought, we should eliminate the crimes of rape and murder since every rapist and murderer is already breaking the law by assaulting a person. Seeing that they're willing to break the law, according to you, there's no point of making the acts of rape and murder illegal.

Same goes for underage drunk driving. That shouldn't be illegal either since underage drinking is already illegal.

[natty bumppo 297]

No, read the whole post. Don't stop just with the part you want to read. As I said, following your train of thought, we should eliminate the crimes of rape and murder since every rapist and murderer is already breaking the law by assaulting a person. Seeing that they're willing to break the law, according to you, there's no point of making the acts of rape and murder MORE illegal.

Same goes for underage drunk driving. That shouldn't be illegal either since underage drinking is already illegal.

try again. you're twisting in the wind ....

there are already acts that are illegal. bad people still do them.

how is making these acts more illegal going to stop bad people?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

try again. you're twisting in the wind ....

there are already acts that are illegal. bad people still do them.

how is making these acts more illegal going to stop bad people?

I'm not twisting anywhere. You're making an absurd argument.

[james&olya 1,121]

I guess it's easy to blame firearms.

It's not the guns fault. We all really know who's fault it is. It's society as a whole. Fixing society is tough. Much tougher than banning firearms.

You are 100% right. In an ideal world we would have a way of diagnosing and 'fixing' people before they ever pointed a gun in anger. We don't have that world. So we have to look at solutions that actually might work, at least to reduce the carnage of gun violence. Banning certain firearms and accessories, requiring more rigorous screening of potential gun-owners, requiring registration of some types of weapons, these are all some of the less than perfect but doable, practical, ideas for curbing gun violence.

[james&olya 1,121]

What kind of controls or barriers do we put in place, for such a case as this?

Las Vegas police were searching for answers Tuesday after one of their own killed his wife and son, called 911 to confess, then set his house on fire and committed suicide as rifle-toting cops moved in.　

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/22/16642392-las-vegas-police-in-shock-after-lieutenant-kills-wife-son-self?lite

Some people are attracted to law enforcement careers for the wrong reasons. Some of the same types are 'gun-nuts'! Better psychiatric screening might help but you will never have a perfect system!

[james&olya 1,121]

Why bring a knife to a gunfight?

Obviously because your intended victim has a better chance of successfully resisting and surviving your assault if you do!!

[slim 1,533]

Gun owners still ought to be held liable for their guns.

Is that why we hold car owners responsible for the actions of car thieves?

[james&olya 1,121]

The campus already has gun control ... It's a gun free zone ... Illegal to bring a gun on campus ..

How did that gun control work out on this one?

You are right bumppo, that sort of law has limited benefit. Which is why we need a far more comprehensive approach! Glad you understand this!!