coming to US VWP/B1/B2 with intent to marry

[CHarvey80 72]

I don't think the immigration process was designed with fairness in mind. If it were, AP would not exist. Nor would there be difficult embassies, like Nigeria or Morocco.

If it were fair, everyone who applied for a visa would have the same chance and expectation of getting a visa in the same time frame as anyone else across the world.

It's just simply not designed that way. The bigger question is - should it be??

It is a bit of a slippery slope. On one hand if you let people that are married to USC's into country no matter the situation to wait out the process then all of the security checks go right out the window, and it would be a fraud nightmare as even if the visa was denied the person is already here, good luck finding them. Also, if you have a country that is notorious for producing terrorists, just an example, do you want those people to be able to get over here that easily? There are just so many variables to look at. I would love for my wife to be here with me while they processed the petition but as stated in the quote above, life nor this process is fair.

It would be nice if they actually enforced the laws that are currently in place instead of just throwing up their hands and saying amnesty for all!! Having been born and raised in San Diego, California I have experienced a lot with regard to legal and non-legal immigration. It's a bit of a hot topic for me.

[destiny64 222]

I agree as well, the loophole needs to be closed.

Ditto

[destiny64 222]

NO it's a courtesy to the American Citizen to have their spouse with them, that is why it is an option.

Then extend the courtesy to all USC to have their spouses come to the US while thier I-130 is pending. Wait ...no its not possible to enter the U.S while an I-130 is pending for fear of intent to migrate , huh? I would love for my husband to come on a visitor visa to wait out the decision on our case and interview here in the U.S...but rules are rules , or are they?

It would make a better decision to just close it out entirely and have everyone follow the process the same way.

Edited January 21, 2013 by destiny64

[together4evr 360]

I have to respectfully disagree!

I came to the US with my K-1 pending. I came to the US to prepare everything for my permanent move, arrange the house, get the necessities and fix the house up (husband was a major bachelor), investigate community college, meet my prospective family and make SURE I wanted to do this.

Anyway... I went to the doctor in the US to have my medical done as it was cheaper in the US and when I called USCIS they said it was fine to have it done while here and bring it back with me to Aus (the waiting time for my local one in Aus was long and it was more than double the price) etc.

After my Medical I was told I had a communicable disease (TMI) and would have to be treated before I could leave. After a myriad of tests the issue was resolved and I was told I did not in fact have said disease BUT I will probably always test positive for it at the initial testing stage and it could be a sign of something else, things I should be tested for ASAP. The testing took a few weeks and it was very stressful. My husband (the fiance) and I decided to marry in this time as we were not sure I was even allowed to leave the country if I had said disease or if I have another disease which could prove even worse.I did not want to leave during such a stressful time anyway, if I had, had either disease my husband (then fiance) would have had to be tested and treated too and I did not want to leave him if we were both going through something similarly as horrible.

Similarly, we adopted a puppy when I came to the US who subsequently developed something called "the parvo virus" which nearly killed her. She was in puppy hospital for nearly a month with 24/7 monitoring and was almost put on a breathing machine ($5000 a day). Our puppy who was out of the hospital in May (I went to do my medical in June) was on 4 types on medication daily , numerous times a day, had to have her poop bleached and anything she came in contact with routinely bleached so as not to pass on the infection, she also had a grade 3 heart murmur from the damage the virus did to her heart and had severe separation anxiety from her time at the vet. My husband (then fiance) worked 12 hour days , 4 days a week and could not provide the level of care she needed (we had planned for her to go to daycare or have puppy-sitting during his work days when I returned anticipating at most I would be gone 3 months going by the USCIS timeline and factoring in any "problems" like a RFE) and she was not eligible for any daycare or sitting service as no one wanted to take on such a risk or such a sick dog.

So, I stayed after much discussion , talking to USCIS and soul searching we thought it would be best.

In staying, I missed out on seeing my family (for a year) , I lost my job, I lost most of my friends, I missed Christmas at home and of course I missed out on a "real" wedding and "real" honeymoon. Edit: and I also have to deal with attitudes like this (yours).

Now, of course not everyone's situation is the same and I am sure mine is a far cry from the norm, but you OP do not know everyone's situation and to blanket the statement and to infer everyone who adjusts from the VWP or a B visa is intentionally committing fraud is unfair.

*** I am sure I missed things in my timeline of events but it is dinner time .

So... How did not going back to your country change anything? You are alive without the terrible disease. If you went home it would still be the same. We can use any excuse to justify our actions...

[Jeikun 65]

I agree about the "fairness" argument being not based in realities. If every country had the same history of compliance with US visas, and fraud rates, and noone immigrated illegally, then policy could be applied exactly the same to everyone. Sadly, this is not the case. Situation and history makes everyone's case different and some will have an easier time of it. Someone with a fiancee from Fujian, China will have a MUCH different experience than someone with a fiancee from Toronto, ON. Is this fair? Not in the sense that that both couples may be just as in love, just as well meaning, and just as deserving to be together... but the USCIS is the gatekeeper and they have to act based on the facts and trends. There is no need to blame anyone. It's the world that's unfair, from birth to death.

AOS is not a loophole. You may adjust from ANY visa as a spouse of a US citizen, it's only a question of if you are being honest about why you entered the USA initially. Some aren't. Fine. Catching them is part of the USCIS's job. But because some people commit fraud doesn't mean that process should be thrown out for the ones that ARE honest. THAT is unfair.

People who are saying no one should be able to do it, honestly or not are just taking their frustrations out on those they perceive as more fortunate than themselves. I understand the emotion, but it's kind of ugly.

[Jeikun 65]

So... How did not going back to your country change anything? You are alive without the terrible disease. If you went home it would still be the same. We can use any excuse to justify our actions...

Bottom line is it was a process available to her, not illegal, and made her life easier. So she shouldn't have took it just so she could clap herself on the back for doing it the hard way and winning your approval? It's not about excuses.

[Xanax 349]

So... How did not going back to your country change anything? You are alive without the terrible disease. If you went home it would still be the same. We can use any excuse to justify our actions...

Why do I have to have an excuse, why should I have to justify my "excuse" to you? I think to most normal people my situation would seem reasonable.

What part does not make sense to you? We changed our minds, 1) we didn't want to go through horrible situations without each other 2) I was advised by the doctor not to leave the country without treatment, treatment could be up to a 3 month course of antibiotics (or I could have had something much worse) and I had to have further testing as did my fiance, thus I would have overstayed 3) we could not re-home or find care for our puppy and could not justify euthanizing her, 4) we consulted USCIS and this is the avenue they advised.

You seem very bitter and I'm sorry about that but I think you're wrong and shortsighted. If USCIS did not want this option available to VWP holders or B visa holders they would not allow it.

-----

Bottom line is it was a process available to her, not illegal, and made her life easier. So she shouldn't have took it just so she could clap herself on the back for doing it the hard way and winning your approval? It's not about excuses.

Thankyou, exactly. USCIS advised us to adjust based on our circumstances.

Edited January 21, 2013 by Xanax

[Moomin 292]

I'm a bit late into the topic I see. However, I'm going to share my opinion anyways.

I do hear about people wanting to AOS when having entered on VWP.

There may be reasons why the situation changes after arriving. On the other hand, it's a tad hard to believe it didn't cross anyone's mind before arriving that the longdistance relationship would eventually end in one person moving.

I'd like to see AOS from VWP only possible if exteme hardship was proven/getting an expedite approved, at least sometime in the future. I saw a case on VJ where the guy was diagnosed with cancer while the female was visiting. To me, it's somewhat odd that case is put in the same pile as people changing their minds. I'm not saying it's a bad thing to change your mind after arriving - that's a neat priviledge.

But I wish it wasn't just VWP but tourist visa in general. One of the times I visited, I had basically only my dog to pick up at home(and my stuff) and could've easily stayed for AOS. We even joked about it - loads of times. But it wasn't going to kill any of us to spend time apart instead of jumping the gun. Besides, I don't want to close the door on any of my friends wishing to visit but if looked into, they're single and visiting someone who AOS'ed from VWP. I'm all about keeping my country a VWP country. And that's my number one reason for my opinion. While the opportunity IS there, it doesn't mean for everyone to take advantage of it. I'm from a country where it's free to go to the family doctor. Some people go every week. To me, that's taking advantage of something just because it's available.

EDIT: I didn't vote as I'm not against people who have adjusted status. It's not illegal and I don't want people to feel as if they're geing looked down upon.

Edited January 21, 2013 by moomin

[VanessaTony 3,567]

But because some people commit fraud doesn't mean that process should be thrown out for the ones that ARE honest. THAT is unfair.

Did you know that the VWP has removed countries? Argentina and Uraguay recently. Did you know that in some countries its basically impossible to get a visitor visa? This is because of the high amount of fraud. Others paying for the actions of others.

There needs to be change in some way. I'd love for it to be allowing any country to use the VWP, or make it easier to get a VWP but because of the high amount of fraud that's less likely than tightening of restrictions.

I know Xanax personally and I know she did not commit fraud in any way shape or form. I know she availed herself of the legal options available and I don't begrudge her that at all. The problem remains that many people commit immigration fraud by entering with intent and people like Xanax will end up paying the price when/if they remove the ability to AOS.

I still think they should though, because hopefully it'll speed up the process for people trying to get spousal or fiance/e visas. I hope they also make the waiver process easier and more streamlined. Basically the whole process needs an overhaul.

[Xanax 349]

I'm a bit late into the topic I see. However, I'm going to share my opinion anyways.

I do hear about people wanting to AOS when having entered on VWP.

There may be reasons why the situation changes after arriving. On the toher hand, it's a tad hard to believe it didn't cross anyone's mind before arriving that the longdistance relationship would eventually end in one person moving.

I'd like to see AOS from VWP only possible if exteme hardship was proven/getting an expedite approved. I saw a case on VJ where the guy was diagnosed with cancer while the female was visiting. To me, it's somewhat odd that case is put in the same pile as people changing their minds. I'm not saying it's a bad thing to change your mind after arriving.

But I wish it wasn't just VWP but tourist visa generally. One of the times I visited, I had basically only my dog to pick up at home(and my stuff) and could've easily stayed for AOS. We even joked about it. But it wasn't going to kill any of us to spend time apart instead of jumping the gun. Besides, I don't want to close the door on any of my friends wishing to visit but if looked into, they're single and visiting someone who AOS'ed from VWP. I'm all about keeping my country a VWP country.

Moomin, it of course crossed our minds - many times, especially on my trip before my last (the trip before I did attempt AOS) and leaving was one of the hardest things I have ever done! But I personally needed to sell my car, wanted to have a "real" wedding and honeymoon that were planned and my family could attend, I had to appease my Father by living with my fiance for "at least 3 months to make sure I wanted to move all the way across the world for him- just a MAN! And to America no less!" , I wanted make sure I could save as much money as I could through work so I had money to live off and not be solely reliant on my husband-to-be before I had my EAD or GC, the list goes on. AOS was not the plan for us. I left a lot, I missed a lot, there are things I will never get that I wanted like the ring we could never afford or the honeymoon. There are family who are old and ill that I may not see before the pass (my Grandma with Alzheimer's).

Edited January 21, 2013 by Xanax

[Jeikun 65]

Did you know that the VWP has removed countries? Argentina and Uraguay recently. Did you know that in some countries its basically impossible to get a visitor visa? This is because of the high amount of fraud. Others paying for the actions of others.

There needs to be change in some way. I'd love for it to be allowing any country to use the VWP, or make it easier to get a VWP but because of the high amount of fraud that's less likely than tightening of restrictions.

I know Xanax personally and I know she did not commit fraud in any way shape or form. I know she availed herself of the legal options available and I don't begrudge her that at all. The problem remains that many people commit immigration fraud by entering with intent and people like Xanax will end up paying the price when/if they remove the ability to AOS.

I still think they should though, because hopefully it'll speed up the process for people trying to get spousal or fiance/e visas. I hope they also make the waiver process easier and more streamlined. Basically the whole process needs an overhaul.

Of course I am aware that countries have been removed from VWP. And many aren't eligible at all. That was kind of my point. I was responding to the person who suggested it should be available to everyone in the world or no one at all. The fact of the matter is that if someone is from Canada, or England, or Australia, they have an easier time of it because the rate of fraud is so low in those countries that trust can be more easily given. If you are from China however, fraud rates are much to high to allow a VWP. As rates of fraud (and other issues such as human trafficking) change the country can be reevaluated. But this is country by country. They won't revoke Australia's VWP status because people from Zimbabwe, China, and Chile commit visa fraud too much one year.

Believe me, the fraud committed in countries that makes visitor visas so difficult isn't that they legally adjust status after coming to the USA. It's that they violate their visa, overstay, become illegals, etc.

But this is still apples and oranges. Many here are making the assumption that AOS from a visa waiver or tourist visa is automatically fraud, and most people just get away with it. Obviously the USCIS does not see it that way. It is a perfectly legal process, and many people (Such as Xanax, who you know personally) use it as it was intended. I didn't use it because I KNEW we were getting engaged, so if I had done it, it WOULD have been knowingly and only to reduce the wait, which would have been fraud (so here I am for K-1). But that isn't the case for many many people. Why deny it to them? Cause other people feel sad that they have to wait longer? This is not a valid reason.

Edited January 21, 2013 by Jeikun

[Kathryn41 3,205]

One post violating the terms of service has been removed along with one post quoting same.

[BeachMusic 8]

It doesnt annoy me as a K-1 visa applicant. It annoys me as a previously potential tourist visa applicant. I've spent 6 years in the US and I came back to my country on my own accord, and I did not risk applying for a B-1 visa ever because I knew me and my boyfriend would one day want to apply for K-1 and i dint want to risk a tourist visa rejection on my record. I wanted to go to the US to meet all my friends too not just my boyfriend, I would be perfectly open to saying to the Embassy Officer, that hey, i want to go meet my school friends and also my boyfriend. And that would be perfectly honest. But I knew it wouldnt work. Most of my friends who've come back to my country after college have gotten their tourist visa rejected. So I spent thousands of dollars meeting in other countries and I din't even get to see my friends that way, only my boyfriend.

So it annoys me that people use the Tourist visa and then do things like get a job or get married WHICH THEY INTENDED TO DO,or something that they weren't allowed to do. And honest people like me will have to worry about having a possible rejection because of this. I don't think they should be allowed. They can leave the country, apply for the correct visa and then come back. This is not out of spite, I dont want them to suffer and wait just because i am waiting. I just dont want the tourist visa abused.

Edit: I dont think it should be gotten rid of all together, because sometimes situations can demand it. But it should be scrutinised to see whether something actually changed for the people to require it.

Edited January 21, 2013 by BeachMusic

[Jeikun 65]

It doesnt annoy me as a K-1 visa applicant. It annoys me as a previously potential tourist visa applicant. I've spent 6 years in the US and I came back to my country on my own accord, and I did not risk applying for a B-1 visa ever because I knew me and my boyfriend would one day want to apply for K-1 and i dint want to risk a tourist visa rejection on my record. I wanted to go to the US to meet all my friends too not just my boyfriend, I would be perfectly open to saying to the Embassy Officer, that hey, i want to go meet my school friends and also my boyfriend. And that would be perfectly honest. But I knew it wouldnt work. Most of my friends who've come back to my country after college have gotten their tourist visa rejected. So I spent thousands of dollars meeting in other countries and I din't even get to see my friends that way, only my boyfriend.

So it annoys me that people use the Tourist visa and then do things like get a job or get married or something that they weren't allowed to do. And honest people like me will have to worry about having a possible rejection because of this. I don't think they should be allowed. They can leave the country, apply for the correct visa and then come back. This is not out of spite, I dont want them to suffer and wait just because i am waiting. I just dont want the tourist visa abused.

The tourist visa is difficult in many countries due to fraud rates. Someone successfully applying for AOS based on a tourist visa, in the eyes of the USCIS did not commit fraud, and would have absolutely no impact. Someone applying and being denied, then returning to their country as requested, is also having no impact. You should be frustrated at people who do it illegally, and not confuse it with people who use the process as it was intended. Visitor visa does not prohibit marriage and AOS. It prohibits entering with INTENT to AOS.

Edited January 21, 2013 by Jeikun

[BeachMusic 8]

The tourist visa is difficult in many countries due to fraud rates. Someone successfully applying for AOS based on a tourist visa, in the eyes of the USCIS did not commit fraud, and would have absolutely no impact. You should be frustrated at people who do it illegally, and not confuse it with people who use the process as it was intended. Visitor visa does not prohibit marriage and AOS. It prohibits entering with INTENT to AOS.

Yes, I agree. I went off-topic. My issue, again is not AOS, or even people entering the country to get married or whatever. I feel if someone has to get married they'll do that any way they can anyways. My frustration lies with the rejection rate of Tourist visas in countries such as mine, because of fraudulent cases, or where there is Intent to adjust your status, and not enough scrutinization perhaps for people who're AOS-ing to inspect their intent. Like if someone came to get a job, get a statement from the company as to when the person had an interview with them. I dont know if things like that are possible. But I'd like checks like that, most people I know personally who've gotten rejected is because of the job thing, when they have no intention to do anything like that.