Voters in Colorado, Idaho, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Virginia and Wisconsin ban same-sex marriage

[Ban Hammer 13,334]

It is child abuse to teach a child to hate others. KKK members have had their children taken away for doing just that.

It is totally different than any of the things you listed because none of those are 2 consenting adults.

so disagreeing with someone's choice in that is child abuse and teaching hate.

[Peikko 1,575]

So, being gay/exhibiting gay behaviour is on a par with murder, bestiality and pedophillia because their sexual predisposition isn't 'normal' as defined by christians? (insert any religious group where homosexuality is considered 'wrong/evil' etc)

*shakes head* Looks like civilization is taking another huge step forward...

[Fandango 1,439]

It is totally different than any of the things you listed because none of those are 2 consenting adults.

I wasn't referring to the act itself, more of the argument that if that is a person in his/her 'natural' state, then how can it be wrong?

As I said before, I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with either side...I can see both sides of the coin & agree that each side has a valid point.

I'm only adding this cos I can't edit anymore, and was remiss in not putting this in my other response.

But don't forget my other response either...calling someone hateful and a child abuser is just as ignorant as you're accusing others of being.

Oh, and as far as the KKK members teaching hate....I'd hazzard a guess that it was a lil more than that, as it's not illegal to hate anyone.

So, being gay/exhibiting gay behaviour is on a par with murder, bestiality and pedophillia because their sexual predisposition isn't 'normal' as defined by christians? (insert any religious group where homosexuality is considered 'wrong/evil' etc)

*shakes head* Looks like civilization is taking another huge step forward...

Well could the same defense of being 'born different' not be used with any of the above mentioned groups? Why would someone be sexaully attracted to a dog? It's on par as being 'normal' <---whatever that is defined as...but you get my drift.

As I said before, I am not necessarily saying that I hold that to be true...all I'm saying is, someone asked me that, and I really didn't have an answer cos I see a shred of logic in the question.

[Kez/JWolf 6]

So, being gay/exhibiting gay behaviour is on a par with murder, bestiality and pedophillia because their sexual predisposition isn't 'normal' as defined by christians? (insert any religious group where homosexuality is considered 'wrong/evil' etc)

*shakes head* Looks like civilization is taking another huge step forward...

100% agree

[Fandango 1,439]

Oh and I think for anyone to expect to get anywhere in a dialogue with such a topic is doing him/herself a great disservice by name calling/condescension/mocking others who don't agree/etc. If we are to at all find any common ground, it won't be reached by alienating each other and just having a umpteenth page long pissing contest of

'i'm right, you're stupid'

'no i'm right, you're such an idiot'

and now, lunch time for me

[Peikko 1,575]

A gay person's defence of their dispostion is not that they are born that way, but that it's not an evil/wrong behaviour.

It's not the being born with the predisposition that's the 'problem' it's how you define what is 'evil/wrong' I can see no reason why homosexual behaviour is evil/wrong. I do see how murder, pedophilia etc are 'wrong'

Edited November 9, 2006 by Purple_Hibiscus

[Cristy 4]

I wasn't referring to the act itself, more of the argument that if that is a person in his/her 'natural' state, then how can it be wrong?

Nobody said that. Lots of things are wrong. Being gay is not one of them. Being gay does not hurt anyone. Nobody who is gay will force you to be gay against your will. It would be like saying that you are straight and that is on par with being a pedophile. Pretty stupid. That is the difference.

[Fandango 1,439]

I wasn't referring to the act itself, more of the argument that if that is a person in his/her 'natural' state, then how can it be wrong?

Nobody said that. Lots of things are wrong. Being gay is not one of them. Being gay does not hurt anyone. Nobody who is gay will force you to be gay against your will. It would be like saying that you are straight and that is on par with being a pedophile. Pretty stupid. That is the difference.

Calling people who don't agree with gay marriage child abusers is wrong and ignorant cristy. Please don't disregard my comment. It's one thing to teach kids to grow up to kill gay people...now THAT is child abuse.

But you have offended many good people on this board with your character assasinations and for that you should apologise.

[garya505 2]

So, being gay/exhibiting gay behaviour is on a par with murder, bestiality and pedophillia because their sexual predisposition isn't 'normal' as defined by christians? (insert any religious group where homosexuality is considered 'wrong/evil' etc)

*shakes head* Looks like civilization is taking another huge step forward...

What is normal isn't defined by Christians. It's simply what is normal in the overall population. Look it up.

[Cristy 4]

I wasn't referring to the act itself, more of the argument that if that is a person in his/her 'natural' state, then how can it be wrong?

Nobody said that. Lots of things are wrong. Being gay is not one of them. Being gay does not hurt anyone. Nobody who is gay will force you to be gay against your will. It would be like saying that you are straight and that is on par with being a pedophile. Pretty stupid. That is the difference.

Calling people who don't agree with gay marriage child abusers is wrong and ignorant cristy. Please don't disregard my comment. It's one thing to teach kids to grow up to kill gay people...now THAT is child abuse.

But you have offended many good people on this board with your character assasinations and for that you should apologise.

I will not apologize. It is child abuse to me as much as being gay is the same as murder to some who posted. Assassinating somebody's character because they chose to love someone of the same sex is reprehensible IMO.

[Cristy 4]

The Case for Early Intervention

A Special Report from the Bureau of Justice Statistics on Hate Crimes, otherwise known as Bias Crimes, (published 2001) highlighted some surprising information regarding the nature of hate crimes in the U.S. This report was in direct response to the Hate Crimes Statistics Act of 1990, which required the establishment of a system for tracking and reporting of information regarding the nature and prevalence of hate crimes.

Highlights of the report are as follows:

Younger offenders were responsible for most hate crimes. 31% of violent offenders and 46% of property offenders were under the age of 17. 60% of violent offenders and 71% of property offenders were under the age of 24.

More than 50% of victims of violence were age 24 or under, 33% were under 18, and 8% were 12 or under

Intimidation, simple assault, and aggravated assault were the most commonly reported violent hate crime offenses, accounting for nearly 6 out of 10 bias incidents

61% of hate crime incidents were motivated by race, 14% by religion, 13% by sexual orientation, 11% by ethnicity, and 1% by victim disability

Six in 10 racially biased incidents targeted Blacks, and 3 in 10 targeted Whites.

Early intervention, and teaching children to respect and appreciate differences can go a long way towards preventing these types of crimes:

A Queens Supreme Court Judge sentences teenage killer Charles Bryant to prison for 51 years for beating and stabbing 18 year old Huang Chen - a Chinese food delivery man - to death

A 19-year old is charged with a hate crime after firing a BB gun and striking two Asian members of a high school track team running through the city

Several 13 and 14 year olds spray paint swastikas on Jewish homes in Clifton New Jersey

A youth tells a policeman he shot a gay man to death because he hates homosexuals

Edited November 9, 2006 by cristy

[Ban Hammer 13,334]

The Case for Early Intervention

A Special Report from the Bureau of Justice Statistics on Hate Crimes, otherwise known as Bias Crimes, (published 2001) highlighted some surprising information regarding the nature of hate crimes in the U.S. This report was in direct response to the Hate Crimes Statistics Act of 1990, which required the establishment of a system for tracking and reporting of information regarding the nature and prevalence of hate crimes.

Highlights of the report are as follows:

Younger offenders were responsible for most hate crimes. 31% of violent offenders and 46% of property offenders were under the age of 17. 60% of violent offenders and 71% of property offenders were under the age of 24.

More than 50% of victims of violence were age 24 or under, 33% were under 18, and 8% were 12 or under

Intimidation, simple assault, and aggravated assault were the most commonly reported violent hate crime offenses, accounting for nearly 6 out of 10 bias incidents

61% of hate crime incidents were motivated by race, 14% by religion, 13% by sexual orientation, 11% by ethnicity, and 1% by victim disability

Six in 10 racially biased incidents targeted Blacks, and 3 in 10 targeted Whites.

Early intervention, and teaching children to respect and appreciate differences can go a long way towards preventing these types of crimes:

A Queens Supreme Court Judge sentences teenage killer Charles Bryant to prison for 51 years for beating and stabbing 18 year old Huang Chen - a Chinese food delivery man - to death

A 19-year old is charged with a hate crime after firing a BB gun and striking two Asian members of a high school track team running through the city

Several 13 and 14 year olds spray paint swastikas on Jewish homes in Clifton New Jersey

A youth tells a policeman he shot a gay man to death because he hates homosexuals

so according to you, everyone should introduce their children to the idea of gay relationships at an early age and never voice an opinion about such within earshot of their children..........

[Peikko 1,575]

True, the sexual 'norm' is male/female. However, what the 'Christian' etc then does it to state that because this is statisticalyl 'normal' behaviour, anything else is abnormal in the 'it's bad/evil/wrong/ sense as apposed to just different.

It's like saying, it's normal to have brown eyes but bad/evil/wrong/abnormal to have green eyes. Statistically, brown eyes may be the 'norm' but green eyes are not 'wrong'.

[Ban Hammer 13,334]

True, the sexual 'norm' is male/female. However, what the 'Christian' etc then does it to state that because this is statisticalyl 'normal' behaviour, anything else is abnormal in the 'it's bad/evil/wrong/ sense as apposed to just different.

It's like saying, it's normal to have brown eyes but bad/evil/wrong/abnormal to have green eyes. Statistically, brown eyes may be the 'norm' but green eyes are not 'wrong'.

ah yes, let's introduce genetics into the picture as a red herring.

[Peikko 1,575]

Your point being?

I have refuted the argument that a homosexual uses his predisposition at birth as an 'excuse' for his/her behaviour. I have pointed out that the argument is about is this behaviour 'wrong/evil'?

I have also illustrated that because something is not statistically normal that in and of itself does not make the statistically abnormal wrong/evil.

It is my belief that homosexual behaviour is neither wrong nor evil. Where exactly is the red herring you are talking about?