Voters in Colorado, Idaho, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Virginia and Wisconsin ban same-sex marriage

[Cristy 4]

I will not apologize. It is child abuse to me as much as being gay is the same as murder to some who posted. Assassinating somebody's character because they chose to love someone of the same sex is reprehensible IMO.

So according to you, these regular posters here:

charlesandnessa

stina&suj

mdyoung

Carol&Marc

garya505

VipulandJamie

..and possibly me...cos I'm on the fence..

...along with the majority of voters in CO ID SC SD TN VA WI, should they have children & instill their beliefs in them, are child abusers? Is that really what you're saying here or have you just spoken out of anger?

BTW, to the above-mentioned posters, I have included your names because I have read this whole thread and inferred from your posts that you disagree with gay 'marriage' in one way or another. If I have gotten this wrong, then I apologise!

You are making some mighty big assumptions. I was refering to one maybe two people. Get over yourself.

You owe me an apology. Apologize to me.

I have assumed nothing. You'll note I asked you a question for you to confirm or deny. You made this sweeping statement pages ago & I have since been posting to you trying to open up a dialogue as to what you mean. Look at your responses on the subject....you even bring in the KKK for crying out loud! As I stated before, I'm quite certain that the KKK children in question were taken away for other reasons, as you are allowed to hate anyone you want. You're allowed to protest and whatnot, so I fail to see what the relevance is.

I have asked you many times to clarify your statement. I have also given you a clear indication of how I took your statement....teaching children their morals, and you calling them child abusers. Now here you go...how many pages later....telling me you were only referring to 'one or two' people. Hokay.

No one here has expressed a hatred of homosexuals. There are many who don't agree with it, and that's fine too. For you to bring up child abuse is just plain wrong, but I feel you are in beligerant mode, therefore you won't accept your own words as wrong. That's fine too....but funny how you're throwing around the 'ignorant' label yet displaying ignorance in its purest form.

You are angry at ppl leaping to conclusions, yet you're calling ppl homophobes passive-aggresively calling people secret homosexuals.

You say that it's wrong to compare homosexuality to murder...yet you use that as an excuse to link beliefs to child abuse. So one comparison is so wrong that it's practically child abuse, yet it's your shield for casting aspersions on ppl's character.

I will not apologize. It is child abuse to me as much as being gay is the same as murder to some who posted. Assassinating somebody's character because they chose to love someone of the same sex is reprehensible IMO.

'do as I say not as I do' eh?

I also meant to say

[CarolineM 0]

I'm trying to locate the info on this - but Lisa is, in fact, correct. Children are not removed from homes and parents, KKK or otherwise, for merely instilling hatred in the children. That is not a crime. I mean, if it were, wouldn't the FBI be outside ever JErry SPringer show that has KKK kids on there yelling about how black people are awful?? Think about it.

Kids are taken away from KKK members, or any other families, because they are exposed to ritualistic abuse....

Again, just instilling your beliefs in your children, whether it's hate or not, is NOT a crime.

[garya505 2]

It's really interesting to see how some of those who think marriage should be redefined to include homosexuals insist on demonizing those who don't.

[Cristy 4]

I'm trying to locate the info on this - but Lisa is, in fact, correct. Children are not removed from homes and parents, KKK or otherwise, for merely instilling hatred in the children. That is not a crime. I mean, if it were, wouldn't the FBI be outside ever JErry SPringer show that has KKK kids on there yelling about how black people are awful?? Think about it.

Kids are taken away from KKK members, or any other families, because they are exposed to ritualistic abuse....

Again, just instilling your beliefs in your children, whether it's hate or not, is NOT a crime.

If I had access to the files I would who you. As a psych student and former foster parent I have a lot of inside info. And this has happened. Of course they were more severe but it has happened.

Edited November 9, 2006 by cristy

[CarolineM 0]

As a former social worker for DCF, I can assure you, parents don't lose children for instilling hatred if the child doesn't act on it. Now, if the kid is hanging nooses on a black child's locker, that's another thing...if the child ACTS on it, sure...but just a parent, telling a child to hate other races, people, religions, whatever...no.

Again, if it's a crime, why aren't the SWAT teams ready to swarm in on Jerry Springer? That's just one example.

[Cristy 4]

As a former social worker for DCF, I can assure you, parents don't lose children for instilling hatred if the child doesn't act on it. Now, if the kid is hanging nooses on a black child's locker, that's another thing...if the child ACTS on it, sure...but just a parent, telling a child to hate other races, people, religions, whatever...no.

Again, if it's a crime, why aren't the SWAT teams ready to swarm in on Jerry Springer? That's just one example.

Maybe where you are from it has not. But it has happened. As I said it was more severe than just saying gays are evil. Where do you think kids learn this mentality? It is not the child who is born with these views.

Regardless it is my opinion and that of many respected psychologists that it is abusive to teach a child to hate or be racist/prejudice.

Edited November 9, 2006 by cristy

[CarolineM 0]

k. ....please show me where teaching a child hatred meets the definition of child abuse

http://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwide/law...utes/define.cfm

What if I teach my child to hate french fries? is that abuse? What if I teach my child to hate stranger, pedophiles, monsters...murderes...is that abuse?

How can you or anyone decide what kind of hate is acceptable, and what isn't?

many respected psychologists

I'd love to see you find something to back this up...source? proof? name? research? anything? Not arguing, would relaly be interested in seeing some professional literature on this.

Edited November 10, 2006 by CarolineM

[Cristy 4]

k. ....please show me where teaching a child hatred meets the definition of child abuse

http://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwide/law...utes/define.cfm

What if I teach my child to hate french fries? is that abuse? What if I teach my child to hate stranger, pedophiles, monsters...murderes...is that abuse?

How can you or anyone decide what kind of hate is acceptable, and what isn't?

many respected psychologists

I'd love to see you find something to back this up...source? proof? name? research? anything? Not arguing, would relaly be interested in seeing some professional literature on this.

If I had access to the files I would show you. They are confidential and were used for training and education purposes. Like I said it may not have happened where you live but it has happened.

[CarolineM 0]

i see you ignored the rest of my post...In the United States, we have freedom of religion and speech. it is NOT illegal to teach hatred.

Sorry.

http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/rights.html

[Cristy 4]

i see you ignored the rest of my post...In the United States, we have freedom of religion and speech. it is NOT illegal to teach hatred.

Sorry.

http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/rights.html

And I was trained in Canada.

Being illegal and being abusive are 2 different things.

Edited November 10, 2006 by cristy

[CarolineM 0]

They are confidential and were used for training and education purposes

convenient for you.

You're saying, however, that HUGE numbers of WELL KNOWN psychiatrists are in agreement with you - research and published articles, which I asusme there are....are NOT confidential - where are those? If all you have to go by are "confidential" documents...hmmm

KKK is like a cult, religion if you will, have they have the right to believe and teach their children whatever they want.

i have a soccer game, so I'm off, but you should really open your eyes. i'm not saying I agree that it's RIGHT to teach a child to hate, but it's certainly NOT illegal

Being illegal and being abusive are 2 different things.

true, but that's not the argument you're making. You are saying children are being TAKEN AWAY...meaning the parents are doing something ILLEGAL. Abuse of children is ILLEGAL...

[Cristy 4]

They are confidential and were used for training and education purposes

convenient for you.

You're saying, however, that HUGE numbers of WELL KNOWN psychiatrists are in agreement with you - research and published articles, which I asusme there are....are NOT confidential - where are those? If all you have to go by are "confidential" documents...hmmm

KKK is like a cult, religion if you will, have they have the right to believe and teach their children whatever they want.

i have a soccer game, so I'm off, but you should really open your eyes. i'm not saying I agree that it's RIGHT to teach a child to hate, but it's certainly NOT illegal

And again illegal and abusive are different.

And again the cases I am refering to were not just gays are bad or blacks are bad.

true, but that's not the argument you're making. You are saying children are being TAKEN AWAY...meaning the parents are doing something ILLEGAL. Abuse of children is ILLEGAL...

That was not my argument. I said it is abusive to teach hate. I also said children have been removed for that including members of the KKK.

It would be abusive for me to isolate my husband and call him names every day, it is not illegal but it is abusive.

Edited November 10, 2006 by cristy

[CarolineM 0]

one parting comment - what if I decided to teach my children to HATE pedophiles. I will teach them to HATE them - be totally prejudice AGAINST them...

will you turn me in to DCF??

Who gets to decide WHO it is ok to hate and WHO it is not??

You said it was "Child Abuse" to teach hate - and CHILD ABUSE is illegal...so where's the difference?

[Cristy 4]

one parting comment - what if I decided to teach my children to HATE pedophiles. I will teach them to HATE them - be totally prejudice AGAINST them...

will you turn me in to DCF??

Who gets to decide WHO it is ok to hate and WHO it is not??

You said it was "Child Abuse" to teach hate - and CHILD ABUSE is illegal...so where's the difference?

Pedophiles are criminals. Gays are not.

[CarolineM 0]

Teaching hate, ignorance and intolerance is child abuse.

even better. If I teach my children to be INTOLERANT of people who kill others....that's child abuse?

well now you are splitting hairs...so it's ok to teach hate if the person you're hating is a criminal??

What if it's a gay criminal? can we hate them then?? You're totally trying to decide WHO we can hate and WHO we cant!! the law doesn't do that!

Your logic is WAY off.