Yardies, at home and a farrin'

[Yaads 0]

Jamie -- I hate to say it but "men will always be men." I think it is in their blood to do stupid things. Things that we would NEVER have the nerve to do. They don't understand that we worry -- especially since they are from another country and not familiar with alot of things here. If it was me, I would have been throwing myself all over the place.

At the same time -- we (yes we) have to be able to find a "happy medium" in which we allow them to do "their own thing" without them feeling that they need to lie to us just to shut us up (and keep us happy). Jamie, I'm not saying that is what Andre is doing to you.....it's just a general statement. I know that most of the time I find myself treating Roy like a little kid -- he is a 35 year old man....but, sometimes I just can't help myself. I'm constantly working on that. And I know, once he has more freedom (i.e., job, car...) it's just going to get worse. I can see him doing the same thing Andre is doing. I can say I haven't caught him in any lies.....YET!!! Since we all seem to be "mirroring" each other in our relationships <except the pregnancy thing, Julie!> I am sure my time is coming.

Those are good points Mindy. That is very true about the mirroring thing. I never thought of that before but it is true. I wonder what Rhonda will have to say...she has been married longest.

I think part of my problem that I have been working on is assuming that Andre has common sense and common courtesy. He doesn't. He didn't grow up here to have the common sense that I have. He has JA common sense...not US common sense and unfortunatly there is a difference.

Thanks for all the words of wisdom everyone

[Shemmy 4]

I haven't caught Damien in any lies yet. Things may change when he starts driving on his own. But we have other issues, nothing major - just issues.

[Elizabethnhenry 0]

Morning everyone

D started class today...and I felt like a nervous mother sending her baby to kindergarten LOL LOL. I am so proud of him and I hope he has a good day. His classes are from 8-11am so I'm excited to hear how his first day went.

Aww that's how I felt!!! Hope Drew had a good day today!

[Yaads 0]

Jamie, just read your post. Sorry to hear about that . Have you two talked about last night's situation yet?

We haven’t gotten to have a real discussion yet. Hopefully this afternoon.

The hard part is I don't really know what else to say that I haven't said a million times before. We have had this discussion numerous times in the last few weeks and I feel like I have exhausted every avenue of discussion.

[Shemmy 4]

Jamie -- I hate to say it but "men will always be men." I think it is in their blood to do stupid things. Things that we would NEVER have the nerve to do. They don't understand that we worry -- especially since they are from another country and not familiar with alot of things here. If it was me, I would have been throwing myself all over the place.

At the same time -- we (yes we) have to be able to find a "happy medium" in which we allow them to do "their own thing" without them feeling that they need to lie to us just to shut us up (and keep us happy). Jamie, I'm not saying that is what Andre is doing to you.....it's just a general statement. I know that most of the time I find myself treating Roy like a little kid -- he is a 35 year old man....but, sometimes I just can't help myself. I'm constantly working on that. And I know, once he has more freedom (i.e., job, car...) it's just going to get worse. I can see him doing the same thing Andre is doing. I can say I haven't caught him in any lies.....YET!!! Since we all seem to be "mirroring" each other in our relationships <except the pregnancy thing, Julie!> I am sure my time is coming.

Those are good points Mindy. That is very true about the mirroring thing. I never thought of that before but it is true. I wonder what Rhonda will have to say...she has been married longest.

I think part of my problem that I have been working on is assuming that Andre has common sense and common courtesy. He doesn't. He didn't grow up here to have the common sense that I have. He has JA common sense...not US common sense and unfortunatly there is a difference.

Thanks for all the words of wisdom everyone

I dicuss adjustment issues with three other couples and all three woman say the same thing about lying. It makes me wonder......

I totally agree with the common sense and common courtesy. Huge difference between the two cultures. This is a huge issue for us.

[Sbys 0]

That's a really good point Jamie - something just clicked in my head when you said that. I hold Michael to the same common sense standards and I could never see why he doesn't understand certain things.

And about treating him like a child Mindy - I do the same thing! It's so hard to let go, I don't want to load him up with a lot of worries/responsibilites right away, but how else will he learn?? I work on that daily too - it's very hard.

I think part of my problem that I have been working on is assuming that Andre has common sense and common courtesy. He doesn't. He didn't grow up here to have the common sense that I have. He has JA common sense...not US common sense and unfortunatly there is a difference.

[Yaads 0]

Jamie -- I hate to say it but "men will always be men." I think it is in their blood to do stupid things. Things that we would NEVER have the nerve to do. They don't understand that we worry -- especially since they are from another country and not familiar with alot of things here. If it was me, I would have been throwing myself all over the place.

At the same time -- we (yes we) have to be able to find a "happy medium" in which we allow them to do "their own thing" without them feeling that they need to lie to us just to shut us up (and keep us happy). Jamie, I'm not saying that is what Andre is doing to you.....it's just a general statement. I know that most of the time I find myself treating Roy like a little kid -- he is a 35 year old man....but, sometimes I just can't help myself. I'm constantly working on that. And I know, once he has more freedom (i.e., job, car...) it's just going to get worse. I can see him doing the same thing Andre is doing. I can say I haven't caught him in any lies.....YET!!! Since we all seem to be "mirroring" each other in our relationships <except the pregnancy thing, Julie!> I am sure my time is coming.

Those are good points Mindy. That is very true about the mirroring thing. I never thought of that before but it is true. I wonder what Rhonda will have to say...she has been married longest.

I think part of my problem that I have been working on is assuming that Andre has common sense and common courtesy. He doesn't. He didn't grow up here to have the common sense that I have. He has JA common sense...not US common sense and unfortunatly there is a difference.

Thanks for all the words of wisdom everyone

I dicuss adjustment issues with three other couples and all three woman say the same thing about lying. It makes me wonder......

I totally agree with the common sense and common courtesy. Huge difference between the two cultures. This is a huge issue for us.

Wow that is interesting...

If you don't mind sharing...what kind of things have they encountered?

[Sbys 0]

I dicuss adjustment issues with three other couples and all three woman say the same thing about lying. It makes me wonder......

This is really interesting. Is this a cultural thing? I'm remembering when we first got to JA when we were staying for a few months. We had rented an apartment near Fern Gully and had no idea how to get there. The owner told us to just ask people when we got to Ochi... so we did. HOURS later, we finally reached the apartment. We would ask people where to go and if they didn't know... they just made something up. We were told so many lies that day I couldn't even believe it.

[tenika 0]

Morning everyone

D started class today...and I felt like a nervous mother sending her baby to kindergarten LOL LOL. I am so proud of him and I hope he has a good day. His classes are from 8-11am so I'm excited to hear how his first day went.

Way to Go!!! I am looking into one for Rohan now. I know he will do well. just be supportive, and do what you can to boost his self-confidence

[Elizabethnhenry 0]

I dicuss adjustment issues with three other couples and all three woman say the same thing about lying. It makes me wonder......

This is really interesting. Is this a cultural thing? I'm remembering when we first got to JA when we were staying for a few months. We had rented an apartment near Fern Gully and had no idea how to get there. The owner told us to just ask people when we got to Ochi... so we did. HOURS later, we finally reached the apartment. We would ask people where to go and if they didn't know... they just made something up. We were told so many lies that day I couldn't even believe it.

YES YES YES!!! I thought I was nuts. I experienced that as well. But my wedding planner explained it thusly: "Jamaicans, both male and female have a HARD HARD time admitting that they do not know something. They would rather face death by lethal injection PLUS stoning that say the 3 dreaded words 'I don't know.' " She then related to me once she went to the PO to get some sort of water coupons (to order water for the overhead tanks) and the girl behind teh counter after fumbling for a while said she did not know when the coupons would arrive. My wedding planner said she neearly fainted because if the girl said she did not know...it was indeed true....she did not know...so she did not know when she would get the wata coupons. So yeah I know we are generalizing, but I experienced that whole making up stuff rather than say I dont know. (Not to keep mentioning Guyana, but in Guyana we have NO problem saying we dont know. In fact my british cousin said the National Anthem should be changed to "Lady me ain know....me ain know when de bank "maninger" coming back. Lady me ain know when the bank does open...Lady me ain know where you have go to order yuh granny death certificate."

Jamie, just read your post. Sorry to hear about that . Have you two talked about last night's situation yet?

We haven’t gotten to have a real discussion yet. Hopefully this afternoon.

The hard part is I don't really know what else to say that I haven't said a million times before. We have had this discussion numerous times in the last few weeks and I feel like I have exhausted every avenue of discussion.

(((Jamie)))) - I think you hit the nail on the head with regard to differences in our sensibilities - US/JA common sense....or US/UK common sense...whatever it may be....the differences become more pronounced once under the same roof. I am obessed with gratitude; I am obsessed with thanking and being thanked. I have my niece writing thank you notes on personalized stationery and she is only 9. I think telling someone thanks goes a long way. Henry (like many people) has major trouble saying thanks. And they see anything wrong....'well you know I am grateful." So I dont stress it; I asked God to help me not to need to hear him say thank you so often and I go on my way and continue being generous to everyone I meet, if they say thanks great, if not fine. Me kyan bodda.

Now about lying....good discusson topic. Lying is a serious issue. So huge in our culture. That whole Million Little Pieces/Oprah fake biography thing got us talking for a while about lying. One reporter said something I loved....she said the way rounding off numbers in math is acceptable, in America we have become a culture that accepts rounding off the truth!! I think that reporter was spot on!

Henry is not a liar. I accused him of lying once and he was really hurt (he was telling the truth). I will say this on the matter of lying, I don't mind telling you I used to lie for a living as a kid....seriously ...in Guyana they say you lie for "tea breakfast and dinner" (ie all day). I outgrew it and as an adult I would lie but then feel HUGE pangs of guilt and nausea especially if the lie was premeditated or I lied to someone who trusted me (I dont think I have ever lied to my mom; I just dont want to hurt her). Lying to children is another thing I can't handle (my dad told me a lot of fibs and I can't stand it). What is strange is that I could never lie in a work related context...it is very, very difficult...who would expect that.....in law!! Thank God my bosses have never asked me to lie and they try not to lie.

You know if you lie long enough your lies become true in your head. Seriously. So the liar after a while does not think he is lying. I think for some to stop lying (without God's intervention) they have to feel the hurt of the person that is being lied to....i.e. someone lies to them...big time. When that happens....they get it....they see/feel the damage. The only other thing is for the liar to feel safe...you lie because you are scared of something....I dont mean condone the lying and placate the liar, but find out what they are afraid of...what fear is feeding the lies.

Julie, I think "joke lying" is very common in certain cultures. I have many friends from eastern europe and the mediterranean who say within their oral traditions embellishing is not considered lying. You are entertaining not lying. I have several male cousins who do that. I dont know though if they lie in their personal relationships.

I don't have advice, but I hope that helps....to know that we understand....and maybe can share to help you get a better understanding of why Andre is lying.

[Shemmy 4]

Jamie -- I hate to say it but "men will always be men." I think it is in their blood to do stupid things. Things that we would NEVER have the nerve to do. They don't understand that we worry -- especially since they are from another country and not familiar with alot of things here. If it was me, I would have been throwing myself all over the place.

At the same time -- we (yes we) have to be able to find a "happy medium" in which we allow them to do "their own thing" without them feeling that they need to lie to us just to shut us up (and keep us happy). Jamie, I'm not saying that is what Andre is doing to you.....it's just a general statement. I know that most of the time I find myself treating Roy like a little kid -- he is a 35 year old man....but, sometimes I just can't help myself. I'm constantly working on that. And I know, once he has more freedom (i.e., job, car...) it's just going to get worse. I can see him doing the same thing Andre is doing. I can say I haven't caught him in any lies.....YET!!! Since we all seem to be "mirroring" each other in our relationships <except the pregnancy thing, Julie!> I am sure my time is coming.

Those are good points Mindy. That is very true about the mirroring thing. I never thought of that before but it is true. I wonder what Rhonda will have to say...she has been married longest.

I think part of my problem that I have been working on is assuming that Andre has common sense and common courtesy. He doesn't. He didn't grow up here to have the common sense that I have. He has JA common sense...not US common sense and unfortunatly there is a difference.

Thanks for all the words of wisdom everyone

I dicuss adjustment issues with three other couples and all three woman say the same thing about lying. It makes me wonder......

I totally agree with the common sense and common courtesy. Huge difference between the two cultures. This is a huge issue for us.

Wow that is interesting...

If you don't mind sharing...what kind of things have they encountered?

let's see - here's the wife short list

- their husbands contacted other females once they got to the states - husband don't see the problem.

- not compromising and being flexible - not willing to learn new things

- money issues - not wanting to contribute to the household once they find jobs

- just burned out from "baby sitting" husbands

husband short list

- wife don't give them any freedom. as far as hanging out with friends

- wife wants to control their life.

[tenika 0]

I dicuss adjustment issues with three other couples and all three woman say the same thing about lying. It makes me wonder......

This is really interesting. Is this a cultural thing? I'm remembering when we first got to JA when we were staying for a few months. We had rented an apartment near Fern Gully and had no idea how to get there. The owner told us to just ask people when we got to Ochi... so we did. HOURS later, we finally reached the apartment. We would ask people where to go and if they didn't know... they just made something up. We were told so many lies that day I couldn't even believe it.

One thing I did notice about some Jamaicans that I perceive is a cultural thing, is they hear of stories from when they were young that many times is not true, and tell them as if they acutally knew the people involved/

For Example : Rohan to me as we went by bus from Kingston to St. Thomas " See this body of water, there was two brothers (names I forgot) who was fighting over the land and killed each other, this land then turned to water and every year around the end of April the water turns to look like Blood"

or Rohan after I showed my disgust at thim for not holding in a fart "Baby ya want me tah die, I was sittin on the bus once and this lady name Mary had to fart, I told her to let it out she said no, and she died right there" It is important to know this mystery lady who died from holding in a fart is known by everyone in JA. and normally told as a first hand experience

or Rohan to me, after I reiterated I am not having sex until after marriage "there one was a man who married a lady (I forgot the name) and never let the man try her out, until their wedding night and on that night he find out she has ' no where to receive him" , beside the impossibility of this scenerio- I found it odd that I hear my other Christian sisters here and abroad, say Jamaican always use the same scenereo

I am just using Rohan examples, but these are really common example told in a first hand mode. Is it possible so many people were sitting next to a Mary on the bus who held in a fart and perished in this tragic example of toxic ingestion hmmmm.... I wonder what would be the cause of death on the medical examiner file, Mary died from Inward Gas Suppressionitis,

[Elizabethnhenry 0]

Tenika Tenika, If me laff me dead cause me belly bus!

I can testify to the lady having no where to receive him story. Henry told me that one . he didnt tell it as a first hand but did ask what would happen if on our wedding night he made such a discovery!!!

[Yaads 0]

Tenika

Girl you have me rolling on the floor in my office laughing

I have heard each the fart story and the wedding night story. I heard the farting one from Andre and then the wedding night story from him and his brothers...they had quite a discussion about it

Edited May 10, 2006 by Jme3584

[Minfay 0]

I wonder what Rhonda will have to say...she has been married longest.

Assuming that Andre has common sense and common courtesy. He doesn't. He didn't grow up here to have the common sense that I have. He has JA common sense...not US common sense and unfortunatly there is a difference.

Since Rhonda is upset with Tony right now I don't think she is going to have anything nice to say

So much has been posted and I need to let it all sink in BUT I wanted to comment on this one right away. Jamie girl -- this is HUGE in my world!! Roy does things really fast -- without thinking of the consequences of his actions. That's how I have been looking at it -- but it really is JA common sense....or the lack thereof. The difference is so great. I think that is something that we all need to take a step back and think about.

It's so cute now when Roy says 'excuse me' to someone in public. That is one of the many things I have been trying to teach him that he NEVER said to anyone in Jamaica. I had to explain to him that it is common courtesy to say that to someone. All I can now hope is that he is saying it because he means it and not just to humor me.