Egyptian court sentences Christian family to 15 years for converting from Islam

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

@Evylin- well we did loose a few of our guys to the nasty liberal mods so replacements were in order.

@S&M - I can't turn my back on pork. No sir.

It's one thing to convert because you are enlightened but the back forth makes me skeptical & very distrustful of that person. Is it true that Islam or it's people is more welcoming of a Muslim man marrying a non Muslim vs a Muslim woman marrying a non Muslim?

From what I have learned, it's depending on the country and it's laws. Back in the 80's early 90's you could marry a Muslim woman and not be a Muslim. But if I recall correctly this lead to many problems, as the men weren't taking care of the women properly and the children were brought up as non muslims, which is an insult to the family. One of the women my wife works with is from Turkey, she married a man that is non muslim, and it's been hard on her. When Ramadan took place back this summer, she was the only person in the house partaking in it, her husband and children all ate and drank in front of her, I know it must have broken her heart. My sons are Christians since they were born to a different Mom, they will only convert if they choose to. Before I converted I did my homework, I read the Qu'ran and talked to our Chaplin on the ship. I wanted to make sure it was right for me, not just because of some woman.

[JohnR! 5,495]

would this kind of thing be acceptable in USA? is this something we want to incorporate into our system of juris prudence?

These questions must be answered separately lest they convey the notion of being connected in any way.

- Would this kind of thing be acceptable in the USA? - It already is. Religious persecution still exists in America. The Westborough Baptist Church tends to persecute, in their own particular way, all those who do not conform to their idea of religion. Some religious leaders, make money and achieve infamy by proposing that the scriptures of other faiths be burned. The list goes on. All these fall under the First Amendment Rights, as in freedom of expression.

- Is this something we want to incorporate into our system of jurisprudence? - One cannot incorporate an action to our jurisprudence system. What has already been ruled over, and from which jurisprudence may be derived, is that the SCOTUS ruled that the WBC's demonstrations of hate and contempt for those who are different from them, are protected under the first amendment.

In essence, with the two answers above, in order for anyone to be persecuted, legally, for their choice of religion - or a choice of freedom from religion - we would need a constitutional amendment to repeal or reword the First Amendment. A constitutional amendment would need a bill, and 2/3 of the US Congress, in order to pass, etc etc etc...

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

What's entertaining is that you're replying to everything except the post that makes your story misleading.

so a guy rips me for grammar and misspells bring, and I am supposed to sit on my hands. Come now you do not mean that

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

I think you guys have run Hershel out of this thread..

I will never back down, that fact that some of you may have been correct is irrelevant to the situation.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

so a guy rips me for grammar and misspells bring, and I am supposed to sit on my hands. Come now you do not mean that

Not at all. It was just amusing to me that those were the replies you were responding to - not the reply which shows that your Fox News story was missing some pretty important information.

And yet when someone laughed at the source, a couple replies said things along the line of "can't attack the message, attack the messenger! the source doesn't matter!"

The source matters. Obviously.

[justashooter 430]

See the difference? This woman, her kids, and the officials that helped forged documents are going to jail for that reason, not the religion. In the US you can go to jail for it just as well. Nice try Hershel, next time give me something a little bit harder, I started school last night and I'm taking ENG 101, this will help with my writing skills.

or are they going to jail because it is nearly impossible under the system to comply with the existing laws and gain an inheritance?

if laws are created that are to the detriment of the people, then they are.

[justashooter 430]

These questions must be answered separately lest they convey the notion of being connected in any way.

- Would this kind of thing be acceptable in the USA? - It already is. Religious persecution still exists in America.

the westboro church doesn't jail people for failure to comply with unreasonable law...not even remotely related.

the law needs to be looked at and understood in detail before a finding can be made in this case.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

or are they going to jail because it is nearly impossible under the system to comply with the existing laws and gain an inheritance?

if laws are created that are to the detriment of the people, then they are.

The articles said in both cases, it's rather easy to convert one way but harder to go back. Same thing like here in the states. You ever notice how when you buy something, it's really easy to obtain it, but try getting your money back, that's a different story. There are plenty of cases where innocent people are held in jail while going through due process, yet murderers roam free because of the same laws. It can cut both ways.

[JohnR! 5,495]

the westboro church doesn't jail people for failure to comply with unreasonable law...not even remotely related.

the law needs to be looked at and understood in detail before a finding can be made in this case.

Precisely my point. One can't be jailed for one's choice of religion or freedom thereof, in the USA, which answers your initial questions.

In the case of which you speak, the law at which one needs to look is that of Egypt, but that is an entirely different matter altogether.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Gegel

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

the westboro church doesn't jail people for failure to comply with unreasonable law...not even remotely related.

the law needs to be looked at and understood in detail before a finding can be made in this case.

A General Description: The Three Forged Instrument Crimes in New York

The most common of all crimes involving Criminal Possession of a Forged Instrument is also the least significant (if there is such a thing in the criminal law). Criminal Possession of a Forged Instrument in the Third Degree pursuant to New York Penal Law 170.20 is an “A” misdemeanor punishable by as much as one year in jail. This misdemeanor conviction will not be expunged from your record on a later date merely because it is not a felony offense.

The mid-level offense involving Criminal Possession of a Forged Instrument is the Second Degree crime. A significant jump from the Third Degree offense, New York Penal Law 170.25 is a “D” felony. If a felony record is not serious enough, the crime is punishable by up to seven years in state prison. “Fake ID crimes” and fraudulent credit cards technically fall into this category.

The most serious crime of Criminal Possession of a Forged Instrument is the First Degree offense. Criminal Possession of a Forged Instrument in the First Degree, pursuant to New York Penal Law 170.30 is a “C” felony punishable by as many as fifteen years in state custody. The most common manner in which this degree is perpetrated is when the forged item in question is currency from the United States, i.e., you have counterfeit money.

This is our law, her and her sons were caught with fake ID's and official paperwork. That would constitute at least 7 years.

[justashooter 430]

This is our law, her and her sons were caught with fake ID's and official paperwork. That would constitute at least 7 years.

you didn't answer the question, which is, how difficult is it to convert from muslim to xtian in egypt? what repercussions are there for those that try to do so? then, in a related issue, how many people in egypt have bad paper, in the general population? i would imagine that many do. hell, we have 400,000 "puerto ricans" here in USA that are not puerto rican, but are using stolen PR documents. most are supposedly nicaraguan and in the drug trade, or families thereof.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

you didn't answer the question, which is, how difficult is it to convert from muslim to xtian in egypt? what repercussions are there for those that try to do so? then, in a related issue, how many people in egypt have bad paper, in the general population? i would imagine that many do. hell, we have 400,000 "puerto ricans" here in USA that are not puerto rican, but are using stolen PR documents. most are supposedly nicaraguan and in the drug trade, or families thereof.

I didn't answer because the article said it was difficult to convert from Muslim to Christianity. I don't know the degree of difficulty since I have never been there. Does that mean they impeded her basic rights? No, that means it's hard to revert back to a different religion. Why don't you go over to the Middle Eastern forum and ask the experts? I can only surmise what the article is saying, the whole thing, not the pieces that paint islam in a bad light.

[JohnR! 5,495]

you didn't answer the question, which is, how difficult is it to convert from muslim to xtian in egypt?

It depends. Some flavors of christianity demand the interested party to take a course, be baptized, take communion, confess, etc... others require some dexterity in handling with reptiles and poisonous snakes, etc. All these take time and money, so there is no rhyme or rule.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Gegel

[sandinista! 1,816]

You posted from a known hate site and that ######'s getting reported.

[Karee 4,191]

You posted from a known hate site and that ######'s getting reported.

Maybe that's why Marvin can't get to it.