VWP Question,

[JamesDove 0]

Hey People of Visa Journey,

I just discovered this website, really informative.

I have a couple questions of my own, and I never really thought about it since everything always went well. But Since a girl and I got pretty serious I was wondering if my travels on the VWP are acceptable by CBP.

Now my situation is the following,

I am from a wealthy and prominent business family in my country, and I am currently employed in the family business. But because I am employed in the family business I can get quite some time off. Family favours as you may call it.

I just graduated this year and I am not that old, 21 and still living in my parents house. But right now kinda working for my own place. Would this be a bad thing in the eyes of CPB? That I am quite young and travelling so much to the US.

When I arrive in the US I usually get asked what my purpose is, I always answer with something like 'Visiting friends for Springbreak, or I am here to see some friends or spend summer holiday with them' Never told them I am actually visiting my girlfriend, it wouldn't really be true anyway. Since I am not only visiting her, but also her parents, brothers and other friends I met in the US. Thats why I always stayed with the 'friends'. Other questions where brief and usually normal same questions they always ask

My travel dates are the following, all to my girlfriend and all alone.

2011, 3 stays of 1 week each, (March, August and October) To visit my girlfriend.

2012 3 stays, march 1.5 week July 3 weeks and October 2 weeks.

In 2013 I am planning to travel to her 4 times(first time will be springbreak in march for 16 days), however I think its pretty much since people usually don't have that much free time. I always wanted to 'share the burden with her', with her travelling to me at least 2 times a year and switch. And since she is still a college student, she has the time and she is able and usually stays up to a 3-4 weeks when she travels to me. Since she isn't that wealthy, My family paid for the tickets, they love to show her Europe. But to tell you guys, every trip (in 2013) will most likely not be longer then 14-16 days. Maybe a little longer around the summer. Maybe 3 weeks. Since I always need to get back to work for my boss/dad/family. They will be spread equally true-out the year.

My question for you guys, you think that by visiting her again for 4 times this year would be bad, as in risky as in possibly denied access to the US. Which I don't really want to happen. Because we will probertly end up living in Europe, so I have no intention to file for a K1 in the future. (way easier since she doesn't need a marriage visa like a K1 to marry me, just come in, marry and we are done)With the VWP we could always 'hop on' a plane to visit her parents whenever we like (The VWP is really a blessing compared to other countries) and not beg for a visa at the embassy. And being denied access would be a big personal shame to me to be detained in a holding cell.

Conclusion, would 4 times be risky? Because if it is I will not do it. I don't want to risk it. Or is the 3 visits a year I do right now risky too? Even though I already did it for 2 years.

I usually take the following evidence, since I always prepare a little.

-1 Letter from my employee, that I will be expected back (dad)

-2 Return ticket (conformation and Itinerary)

-3 Travel insurance until the day of return ticket.

Would those 3 things be sufficient?

I would just love to hear your thoughts on my question. Like whats the best practice? Are there people in a similar situation like me that got denied?

Yours Faithfully,

J.

[Dave&Roza 748]

Hey People of Visa Journey,

I just discovered this website, really informative.

I have a couple questions of my own, and I never really thought about it since everything always went well. But Since a girl and I got pretty serious I was wondering if my travels on the VWP are acceptable by CBP.

Now my situation is the following,

I am from a wealthy and prominent business family in my country, and I am currently employed in the family business. But because I am employed in the family business I can get quite some time off. Family favours as you may call it.

I just graduated this year and I am not that old, 21 and still living in my parents house. But right now kinda working for my own place. Would this be a bad thing in the eyes of CPB? That I am quite young and travelling so much to the US.

When I arrive in the US I usually get asked what my purpose is, I always answer with something like 'Visiting friends for Springbreak, or I am here to see some friends or spend summer holiday with them' Never told them I am actually visiting my girlfriend, it wouldn't really be true anyway. Since I am not only visiting her, but also her parents, brothers and other friends I met in the US. Thats why I always stayed with the 'friends'. Other questions where brief and usually normal same questions they always ask

My travel dates are the following, all to my girlfriend and all alone.

2011, 3 stays of 1 week each, (March, August and October) To visit my girlfriend.

2012 3 stays, march 1.5 week July 3 weeks and October 2 weeks.

In 2013 I am planning to travel to her 4 times(first time will be springbreak in march for 16 days), however I think its pretty much since people usually don't have that much free time. I always wanted to 'share the burden with her', with her travelling to me at least 2 times a year and switch. And since she is still a college student, she has the time and she is able and usually stays up to a 3-4 weeks when she travels to me. Since she isn't that wealthy, My family paid for the tickets, they love to show her Europe. But to tell you guys, every trip (in 2013) will most likely not be longer then 14-16 days. Maybe a little longer around the summer. Maybe 3 weeks. Since I always need to get back to work for my boss/dad/family. They will be spread equally true-out the year.

My question for you guys, you think that by visiting her again for 4 times this year would be bad, as in risky as in possibly denied access to the US. Which I don't really want to happen. Because we will probertly end up living in Europe, so I have no intention to file for a K1 in the future. (way easier since she doesn't need a marriage visa like a K1 to marry me, just come in, marry and we are done)With the VWP we could always 'hop on' a plane to visit her parents whenever we like (The VWP is really a blessing compared to other countries) and not beg for a visa at the embassy. And being denied access would be a big personal shame to me to be detained in a holding cell.

Conclusion, would 4 times be risky? Because if it is I will not do it. I don't want to risk it. Or is the 3 visits a year I do right now risky too? Even though I already did it for 2 years.

I usually take the following evidence, since I always prepare a little.

-1 Letter from my employee, that I will be expected back (dad)

-2 Return ticket (conformation and Itinerary)

-3 Travel insurance until the day of return ticket.

Would those 3 things be sufficient?

I would just love to hear your thoughts on my question. Like whats the best practice? Are there people in a similar situation like me that got denied?

Yours Faithfully,

J.

IMHO I would say it is the amount of time you spend in the US and not the number of trips. For example, you come to the USA for a visit and stay for 170 days. Go home for about 3 weeks and come back to visit again. My bet is the CBP person will stamp your passport with something less than 6 months, maybe not given your evidence of ties to your home country. Several short trips where you are outside the US more than in the US in any one year period--take today and look back at the previous year and see how long you hae been in the US and then add your planned stay in the US number of days and see what that equals--you should be fine. They only care about people who are using the tourist visa to "live" in the US by being in the US more than in their home country.

Dave

[JamesDove 0]

Well if I look at the total spend time in a year, it would be somewhere between 40-50 days?

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

I think you show a pattern of frequent and short travel, with a history of returning, so I wouldn't expect any issue. If an problem starts to arise they will give you a warning, so I would stick to your plan until they tell you it's been too much.

[Moomin 292]

IMHO I would say it is the amount of time you spend in the US and not the number of trips. For example, you come to the USA for a visit and stay for 170 days. Go home for about 3 weeks and come back to visit again. My bet is the CBP person will stamp your passport with something less than 6 months, maybe not given your evidence of ties to your home country. Several short trips where you are outside the US more than in the US in any one year period--take today and look back at the previous year and see how long you hae been in the US and then add your planned stay in the US number of days and see what that equals--you should be fine. They only care about people who are using the tourist visa to "live" in the US by being in the US more than in their home country.

Dave

VWP only allows one to stay for up to 90 days at a time.

OP, bring ties to your home country. Bring a contract stating how long you've been working there, and when they expect you back from vacation. Bring proof of funds to support yourself while staying in the US. You can bring utility bills as well. Don't bring your birth certificate or documents like that.

The 2 factors you can't eliminate would be you're young and traveling alone. Throughout the past 12 months, you have visited roughly 50 days in total. You have a pattern of short visits though. CBP officers can access that data. HOpefully, it'll be to your advantage that you had short visits and always left long before the 90 days.

I'd suggest you take your trip the nect time and keep your employment letter/contract in your carry-on along with other proof. When or IF asked, you have it ready. But only dig it out when or if asked. Otherwise it seems suspecious that you come overprepared this time.

Anyways - viel glûck.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

You worry over nothing. I have customers who fly to the United States 20 times per year. I have also friends who own condos in Florida and spend close to 6 months per year in the U.S., for many years now.

But, say, if you are 21 years old, from a wealthy family, and not too ugly, shouldn't you be able to find some hot chicks to bang in Krautland?

Just wondering . . .

[JamesDove 0]

@ Moomin, well I can't take any utility bills since I don't really own anything in Germany. However proof of maintaining myself in the US was never a problem. I usually take like 750 Dollar for 2 weeks in cash. And my own credit card of-course. You can't survive without a credit in the US really.

@ Brother Hesekiel. Thanks for your reply, You hurt me brother However that was never the problem. But it just happened I found one in the US I would love to spend my life with and who knew nothing about me when I met her. Thats life I guess

So what you guys are actually saying that the frequency or the amount of days stayed in the US should be a problem? And when they could doubt about my intentions I always have some 'ties' to show them. But are they sufficient? I don't have utility bills, or houses or any cars I realy own. I mean, 1 month and 2 weeks in total really doesn't sound that much compare to other topics here I read about bumming around for 90 days. No offence of course.

[JamesDove 0]

I mean shouldn't. A little mistake can make a sentence you out of context really fast.

[Teddy B 17,252]

I think you show a pattern of frequent and short travel, with a history of returning, so I wouldn't expect any issue. If an problem starts to arise they will give you a warning, so I would stick to your plan until they tell you it's been too much.

[JamesDove 0]

Well thank you guys for your time.

I am glad my travel frequencies and time stayed wont get me into any trouble. And I have been doing it for 2 years too right now, I guess I should take that into account too.

I was just wondering that's all. Better to be save and prepared then sorry and on your way back which would be really sad... I just didn't want to be in a zone where it might be 'risky' as in there would be a chance that I would be turned back. Even though I am not sure if that happens a lot - a lot. People can get pretty questioned, but I guess its the CBP's job to be wary for people that come to much. Like 90 + 90 days in a year. Compared to that my total duration of 1.5 (around 45 days) month doesn't seem that long at all. But I guess if you are a legitimate visitor you have nothing to fear.

But there still are quite a bit of people who do the 90 - 90 thing. How can people afford to stay that long? Even I can't stay that long since I need to work and be back for other things. But I guess agency jobs can make it pretty flexible. and a BF/GF is defintly worth staying 90 days for I am sure Do you guys/girls actually do it a lot? the like 80 to 90 days there, 90 days out and 90 days in again?

James.

[jaycali 415]

Well if I look at the total spend time in a year, it would be somewhere between 40-50 days?

I think you show a pattern of frequent and short travel, with a history of returning, so I wouldn't expect any issue. If an problem starts to arise they will give you a warning, so I would stick to your plan until they tell you it's been too much.

I agree with other posters. This is a non-issue.

Your frequent trips actually serve to help you - You've shown a pattern, over time, that you return on time, and since you stay for short amounts of time there is no reason to suspect you might be funding your trips by unauthorized unemployment.

What's "acceptable" to the CBP is quite misunderstood in many cases. The CBP's job is not to limit the amount of time or number of trips people make to the US. A very large portion of the US economy depends completely on tourism and visitors. The CBP's job is to make sure that this remains, while still weeding out those who are not legitimate visitors.

To do this, they rely on "weird" or unusual travel movements. Yours aren't. There are a million legitimate reasons why a young German would travel to the US frequently, and all the CBP cares about is that you can be counted on to leave on time and not work.

Edited January 18, 2013 by Jay Jay

[jaycali 415]

But there still are quite a bit of people who do the 90 - 90 thing. How can people afford to stay that long? Even I can't stay that long since I need to work and be back for other things. But I guess agency jobs can make it pretty flexible. and a BF/GF is defintly worth staying 90 days for I am sure Do you guys/girls actually do it a lot? the like 80 to 90 days there, 90 days out and 90 days in again? James.

That's exactly what the CBP will scratch their heads at too.

That being said, I know people from Norway who work on oil rigs 2 weeks on, 3 weeks off. The 3 weeks off are often spent in vacation homes in Florida. What do you think would happen to the real estate market in Florida if all of a sudden a large portion of Florida home owners were denied entry for frequent travel movements? The CBP knows this. I know plenty of people back home who spends 4 - 5 weekends in New York a year. As far as the US government is concerned, they contribute greatly to the economy. The CBP knows this.

And remember this - Every time the CBP scans your passport, your entries to the US pop up on their screen along with your exits. Why would they now all of a sudden suspect you of trying to immigrate? They have other things to worry about.

All in all. If you have a legitimate and not too unusual reason for travel, you generally have nothing to worry about.

Edited January 18, 2013 by Jay Jay

[JamesDove 0]

Well thanks Jay Jay, you seem to have a lot of knowledge about this! And thanks everyone else to for the clarification around this matter. I was just wondering that's all, better to be safe then sorry!

And thanks for the clarification about the 90 days thing. Did you work around or on the Norse oil rigs in Norway? I really love Norway, definitely one of the most beautyfull countries on this planet. Even though I have only been in Bergen and Oslo, never went more up north.

J.

[jaycali 415]

Well thanks Jay Jay, you seem to have a lot of knowledge about this! And thanks everyone else to for the clarification around this matter. I was just wondering that's all, better to be safe then sorry! And thanks for the clarification about the 90 days thing. Did you work around or on the Norse oil rigs in Norway? I really love Norway, definitely one of the most beautyfull countries on this planet. Even though I have only been in Bergen and Oslo, never went more up north.J.

I never worked on any of them, but know people who do. One of them has an apt in New York that she "lives" in when not in the North Sea. She stays in the US about a third of the year, 2 - 3 weeks at a time. She usually brings her work contract with her when she travels over, but she hasn't had any problems with the CBP ever.

I also know that a lot of retired Europeans have vacations homes in Florida that they stay in frequently.

Again - the very reason that the VWP even exists is to 1. concentrate consular resources on more high risk areas, and 2. promote travel and business.

The US wants visitors. The US wants tourists. The US spends millions of dollars each year promoting for tourists to come here. I live in Hawaii, and without a constant flow of tourists from Japan and elsewhere, half the city I live in would be unemployed and the state itself would be completely and utterly bankrupt. The US economy would collapse. The CBP does not care whether you're going to Disneyland, moose hunting in Alaska, spending thanksgiving with your aunt in New Jersey or visiting your girlfriend in Kansas. Whatever your reason for travel to the US is, you leave money in our hotels, stores and restaurants. All the CBP cares about is that 1. you're not a criminal or barred from entry, 2. you're not trying to immigrate or stay illegally, and 3. you won't be trying to work here. Unless they have a reason to suspect either of those, you will have a very easy trip from immigration to baggage claim.

Have a nice trip!

[JamesDove 0]

I got it Jay Jay,

thanks for taking your time and responding to my topic! I am grateful and glad I am not going to be in any trouble. What you say is definitely true, the CPB is only there to control the flow of visitors and try to get the people that 'might' be a risk.

Have a nice day!