221(g) Refusal at K1 Interview in Thailand. "Your Fiance Has Many Women!!" Player!"

[googled 13]

Honestly I might sound like a jerk for saying this, but maybe you fiance has gotten cold feet. Before you think I am crazy look at what I am seeing. You say that you sent the evidence and the 221g says that they never got any. Your fiance was the one who is supposed to give it to them. You said that she said the CO said that you did not love her and would never marry her. My wife is Thai and she tells me all about the crazy stories of her friends back in Thailand and that sounds like the ####### they would say when they are trying to take advantage of some "dumb farang". I also think that mentioning the 4K was a bad idea and from my experience from giving your Thai inlaws money, they are not saving it for your wedding. It is probably half spent on gold and Thai Whiskey by now.

I am not saying that you should accuse her of anything. I hope the everything she says is true and that this is a big misunderstanding by the embassy, you get it straightened out, and you two are together here in the U.S. Just be careful and protect yourself.

[Karee 4,190]

Honestly I might sound like a jerk for saying this, but maybe you fiance has gotten cold feet. Before you think I am crazy look at what I am seeing. You say that you sent the evidence and the 221g says that they never got any. Your fiance was the one who is supposed to give it to them. You said that she said the CO said that you did not love her and would never marry her. My wife is Thai and she tells me all about the crazy stories of her friends back in Thailand and that sounds like the ####### they would say when they are trying to take advantage of some "dumb farang". I also think that mentioning the 4K was a bad idea and from my experience from giving your Thai inlaws money, they are not saving it for your wedding. It is probably half spent on gold and Thai Whiskey by now.

I am not saying that you should accuse her of anything. I hope the everything she says is true and that this is a big misunderstanding by the embassy, you get it straightened out, and you two are together here in the U.S. Just be careful and protect yourself.

I wasn't gonna go down that road.... yet. Of course it was the first thing that popped into my mind as well. Especially when I saw 4k USD. I hope everything works out as well. Experience tells me otherwise.

[googled 13]

I wasn't gonna go down that road.... yet. Of course it was the first thing that popped into my mind as well. Especially when I saw 4k USD. I hope everything works out as well. Experience tells me otherwise.

Thanks. I was afraid I was the only one who thought that. I kept thinking to myself when I was writing, "When did I become so negative. I used to be such a positive guy." I do hope all this turns out good though.

[Karee 4,190]

Thanks. I was afraid I was the only one who thought that. I kept thinking to myself when I was writing, "When did I become so negative. I used to be such a positive guy." I do hope all this turns out good though.

Yeah I learned some tough lessons over there. It all turned out well in the end.

[Ning 619]

Honestly I might sound like a jerk for saying this, but maybe you fiance has gotten cold feet. Before you think I am crazy look at what I am seeing. You say that you sent the evidence and the 221g says that they never got any. Your fiance was the one who is supposed to give it to them. You said that she said the CO said that you did not love her and would never marry her. My wife is Thai and she tells me all about the crazy stories of her friends back in Thailand and that sounds like the ####### they would say when they are trying to take advantage of some "dumb farang". I also think that mentioning the 4K was a bad idea and from my experience from giving your Thai inlaws money, they are not saving it for your wedding. It is probably half spent on gold and Thai Whiskey by now.

I am not saying that you should accuse her of anything. I hope the everything she says is true and that this is a big misunderstanding by the embassy, you get it straightened out, and you two are together here in the U.S. Just be careful and protect yourself.

I dont know about being a real jerk but you have managed to disregard the only info we have to review. It also a direct statement for the OP about his understanding of what went on. You have changed that by pure speculation into something entirely different. Your wife had added for effect her rendition of the infamous " stories". Stories I have to assume she has no real knowledge of other than Thais passing it along. We all know these things happen but to turn this event into one of those should indicate to you how those stories were born. Seems they came from your " wifes friends" . Her friends are doing these things? You can see the damage a story can do. Fiction becomes truth if sold well.

I have heard the stories too. In my own village some say myself and my daughter were sold into slavery by my evil husband. My real life is less exotic but the village folks still like to talk. This even though I call people in that very village at least 3 times per week.

The OP has said she turned in the laundry list of info. If she hadnt would they have even given her the interview?

He says she works as an accountant, speaks English well. This isnt the description of a bar girl ect. He says he met het 3 years ago. Is she that type of Dr Evil? Planning this long term scam right down to the last minute? He went there 3 times and still couldnt see what was right in front of him? The very evil women in your take on his story? Not one sign in 3 years that he was to had? This women is a master thief worthy of a movie deal. Grifters gone wild ! Her police record is clear so this must be her first attempt at crime. She has pay stubs showing a fair income over a long time period. Probably uses the office as a cover while running the scams at night.

The OP can easily figure this out if you are right. Contacting the embassy to find out what was submitted ect. What is strange is what she says the officer said to her. Then again Karee says something similar happened and I believe him. All but one of the officers I dealt with in my 4 times inside the embassy were very nice to me. One was a very short with me while denying my tourist visa.

Rather than condem the OP or his fiancee it would serve the situation better to help him figure out what really happened and what to do now. How would you or anyone else figure out if she is lying to him? Should he accuse her of that? I am sure we all notice the OP hasnt responded to any of this.

[googled 13]

I dont know about being a real jerk but you have managed to disregard the only info we have to review. It also a direct statement for the OP about his understanding of what went on. You have changed that by pure speculation into something entirely different. Your wife had added for effect her rendition of the infamous " stories". Stories I have to assume she has no real knowledge of other than Thais passing it along. We all know these things happen but to turn this event into one of those should indicate to you how those stories were born. Seems they came from your " wifes friends" . Her friends are doing these things? You can see the damage a story can do. Fiction becomes truth if sold well.

I have heard the stories too. In my own village some say myself and my daughter were sold into slavery by my evil husband. My real life is less exotic but the village folks still like to talk. This even though I call people in that very village at least 3 times per week.

The OP has said she turned in the laundry list of info. If she hadnt would they have even given her the interview?

He says she works as an accountant, speaks English well. This isnt the description of a bar girl ect. He says he met het 3 years ago. Is she that type of Dr Evil? Planning this long term scam right down to the last minute? He went there 3 times and still couldnt see what was right in front of him? The very evil women in your take on his story? Not one sign in 3 years that he was to had? This women is a master thief worthy of a movie deal. Grifters gone wild ! Her police record is clear so this must be her first attempt at crime. She has pay stubs showing a fair income over a long time period. Probably uses the office as a cover while running the scams at night.

The OP can easily figure this out if you are right. Contacting the embassy to find out what was submitted ect. What is strange is what she says the officer said to her. Then again Karee says something similar happened and I believe him. All but one of the officers I dealt with in my 4 times inside the embassy were very nice to me. One was a very short with me while denying my tourist visa.

Rather than condem the OP or his fiancee it would serve the situation better to help him figure out what really happened and what to do now. How would you or anyone else figure out if she is lying to him? Should he accuse her of that? I am sure we all notice the OP hasnt responded to any of this.

Honestly I can't remember ever saying that she was a bar girl. All I said is that maybe she had gotten cold feet and that from my experience (and yes I do have experiences) the whole thing sounds a little fishy. I know the OP probably does not want to hear it, but I only said what I did because I wanted him to keep an open mind. Sometimes people get blinded by their feelings that they cannot see obvious truths right in front of them.

The info that I read is that the Embassy said they did not get any proof of relationship and the OP said that he sent it. The fiance carries this info into the embassy and gives it to the CO through a little window. At which point did they not get it. My hope is that the OP starts there and finds out what went wrong. maybe that would save him some time. For me time is more valuable than money. I would not have cared if my fiance had cheated me out of a few hundred thousand baht, but if she would have wasted my time I would not have been happy with myself.

The OP wanted advice and opinions. I gave him mine.

[Ning 619]

Honestly I can't remember ever saying that she was a bar girl. All I said is that maybe she had gotten cold feet and that from my experience (and yes I do have experiences) the whole thing sounds a little fishy. I know the OP probably does not want to hear it, but I only said what I did because I wanted him to keep an open mind. Sometimes people get blinded by their feelings that they cannot see obvious truths right in front of them.

The info that I read is that the Embassy said they did not get any proof of relationship and the OP said that he sent it. The fiance carries this info into the embassy and gives it to the CO through a little window. At which point did they not get it. My hope is that the OP starts there and finds out what went wrong. maybe that would save him some time. For me time is more valuable than money. I would not have cared if my fiance had cheated me out of a few hundred thousand baht, but if she would have wasted my time I would not have been happy with myself.

The OP wanted advice and opinions. I gave him mine.

No one said you called her a bar girl. You are twisting everything out of context to try to be correct in your opinion. I realise you offered an opinion. You then back up from the wild speculation by saying you hoped it all went well.

You are welcome to offer your opinions and I am not in a position to tell you not to. You are trying to apply your own experiances to someone that you dont know much about. You said far more than she got cold feet. Remember the gold and whiskey? Money already spent ect? Who is blinded by feelings here?

The info provided by the O P doesnt indicate the embassy said they didnt get ANY info. Its says they wanted additional info.

I know how info is provided at the interview. The volume he thinks was submitted wouldnt even fit thru the slot. Tyhey would send a Thai staffer to get the info from her. There are many such questions that can be asked to see if anyone is lying to the OP.

There are things about this affair that dont fit right but we dont have the correct input to begin to speculate that his fiancee is a scammer as you or your wife implys.

Say what you want but realise you may be doing more damage than good.

[Karee 4,190]

Here's my take on all this for whatever it's worth. I can see Ning's point and I can see Googled's point. I've known plenty of people both here on VJ and people that I knew in Thailand (myself included when I lived in Thailand) get taken for a ride. Scammed if you will. I would agree with pretty much everything Ning said if were not for that $4k. The OP hasn't come back to clarify that, but in my mind that's a huge red flag for someone that does not even have the K-1 visa in hand.

Here's a little of my experiences in Bangkok:

My first relationship there was with a 19 year old that I met in a bar after being in Bangkok for a total of 2 hours. Of course I was gonna change her. Fast forward 18 months and I'm sitting in the Lad Phrao police station with a superficial knife wound compliments of her sister, and the cops drinking my whiskey telling me if I don't sign this "confession" they're gonna lock me up. Of course this document was in Thai and the supposed US Citizen phone number at the Embassy just rang and rang. I signed it and that was the end of that mess. The drunk cop was nice enough to give me a ride all the way back to my apt. on Sukhumvit on the back of his motorbike. After that ride, I was thinking I should have took my chances in jail.

At this point I pretty much figured out the game. I ended up hanging out with alot of different "bar girls" etc. Helping them send emails to their 5 different farang "boyfriends" all over the world with the usual sob stories. Brother cracked up his motor bike is in the hospital, parents farm is in trouble in Isaan etc. etc. I usually got "favors" in exchange for my help. Today I'm not real proud of that, but at the time my mindset was #### it! I got screwed over.

I met my wife through a British guy that I hung out and drank with. He was married to her sister. The British guy eventually drank himself to death in Bangkok along with a few other farangs I knew there. I was living there on 30 day tourist visas until one day the Army got tired of Thaksin and took over. One of their first moves was to say no more living here on tourist visas. 3 in a row and your out for 6 months. Obviously that wasn't go to work with me living there for my job. I didn't really work in Thailand, I traveled throughout Asia for my work, so a work visa wasn't going to fly. I told the wife if we don't get married so I can get a Thai Non-O visa, i was screwed. We got married at the Bang Rak Amphur, I flew to Singapore and got my 1 year non-O Thai visa. She told her parents, and shockingly, they didn't ask for 1 Baht for sin sod. To this day I think I've probably sent them 10k THB total in 4 years and they're pi$$ poor farmers in Si Saket (Isaan) The running joke is when people ask me if my wife married me for a visa, I say no I married her for a visa.

I myself ended up unemployed and broke in Bangkok. I went from clearing 7k USD a month to nothing in a day. (My first girlfriend "helped me" spend that 7k quite easily) My wife supported me on about 7k THB a month cutting hair. All of her friends (and her sister) were saying "get rid of this broke farang" I ended up coming back to the U.S. to start over. My wife still sent me $50 here and there from Thailand. My farang friend made the joke that they should put a statue of me in Bangkok, because they never heard of a Thai girl sending a farang money. I got back on my feet here in the U.S. and my wife is now a citizen.

So anyway, not sure why I posted all that (Maybe to remind myself how lucky I am to have my wife.)

My point is this: It's really hard to know who or what you are dealing with over there. Even if you live there. You shouldn't assume all women there are scammers, by the same token alot of them are. Being a bar girl there becomes a lifestyle. The closest thing I can compare it to, is being a drug addict. I'm sure there are girls there that truly choose that profession to send money back home and all those sob stories. They are few and far between. The name of the game is to extract as much money as possible from as many farangs at one time as you possibly can. I've seen them take K-1 visas all the way up to the interview, while getting money the entire time and then bailing out right before the interview.

My wife's sister now has a terminal disease and my niece is in one of the best private schools in Chiang Mai that we pay for. You do marry the family when you marry a Thai girl, so keep that in mind.

[googled 13]

The running joke is when people ask me if my wife married me for a visa, I say no I married her for a visa.

:rofl:

[Ning 619]

Here's my take on all this for whatever it's worth. I can see Ning's point and I can see Googled's point. I've known plenty of people both here on VJ and people that I knew in Thailand (myself included when I lived in Thailand) get taken for a ride. Scammed if you will. I would agree with pretty much everything Ning said if were not for that $4k. The OP hasn't come back to clarify that, but in my mind that's a huge red flag for someone that does not even have the K-1 visa in hand.

Here's a little of my experiences in Bangkok:

My first relationship there was with a 19 year old that I met in a bar after being in Bangkok for a total of 2 hours. Of course I was gonna change her. Fast forward 18 months and I'm sitting in the Lad Phrao police station with a superficial knife wound compliments of her sister, and the cops drinking my whiskey telling me if I don't sign this "confession" they're gonna lock me up. Of course this document was in Thai and the supposed US Citizen phone number at the Embassy just rang and rang. I signed it and that was the end of that mess. The drunk cop was nice enough to give me a ride all the way back to my apt. on Sukhumvit on the back of his motorbike. After that ride, I was thinking I should have took my chances in jail.

At this point I pretty much figured out the game. I ended up hanging out with alot of different "bar girls" etc. Helping them send emails to their 5 different farang "boyfriends" all over the world with the usual sob stories. Brother cracked up his motor bike is in the hospital, parents farm is in trouble in Isaan etc. etc. I usually got "favors" in exchange for my help. Today I'm not real proud of that, but at the time my mindset was #### it! I got screwed over.

I met my wife through a British guy that I hung out and drank with. He was married to her sister. The British guy eventually drank himself to death in Bangkok along with a few other farangs I knew there. I was living there on 30 day tourist visas until one day the Army got tired of Thaksin and took over. One of their first moves was to say no more living here on tourist visas. 3 in a row and your out for 6 months. Obviously that wasn't go to work with me living there for my job. I didn't really work in Thailand, I traveled throughout Asia for my work, so a work visa wasn't going to fly. I told the wife if we don't get married so I can get a Thai Non-O visa, i was screwed. We got married at the Bang Rak Amphur, I flew to Singapore and got my 1 year non-O Thai visa. She told her parents, and shockingly, they didn't ask for 1 Baht for sin sod. To this day I think I've probably sent them 10k THB total in 4 years and they're pi$$ poor farmers in Si Saket (Isaan) The running joke is when people ask me if my wife married me for a visa, I say no I married her for a visa.

I myself ended up unemployed and broke in Bangkok. I went from clearing 7k USD a month to nothing in a day. (My first girlfriend "helped me" spend that 7k quite easily) My wife supported me on about 7k THB a month cutting hair. All of her friends (and her sister) were saying "get rid of this broke farang" I ended up coming back to the U.S. to start over. My wife still sent me $50 here and there from Thailand. My farang friend made the joke that they should put a statue of me in Bangkok, because they never heard of a Thai girl sending a farang money. I got back on my feet here in the U.S. and my wife is now a citizen.

So anyway, not sure why I posted all that (Maybe to remind myself how lucky I am to have my wife.)

My point is this: It's really hard to know who or what you are dealing with over there. Even if you live there. You shouldn't assume all women there are scammers, by the same token alot of them are. Being a bar girl there becomes a lifestyle. The closest thing I can compare it to, is being a drug addict. I'm sure there are girls there that truly choose that profession to send money back home and all those sob stories. They are few and far between. The name of the game is to extract as much money as possible from as many farangs at one time as you possibly can. I've seen them take K-1 visas all the way up to the interview, while getting money the entire time and then bailing out right before the interview.

My wife's sister now has a terminal disease and my niece is in one of the best private schools in Chiang Mai that we pay for. You do marry the family when you marry a Thai girl, so keep that in mind.

Karee you are a very honest man and have a great sense of humor. I remember what you told me in the past but when I read it again I want to laugh and cry. I know why your wife invested in you. You are indeed lucky.

I know the good bad and ugly exists in Thailand. Someone I know married an American about the same time as I did. My husband met her. He said " your friend is hot but pure trouble". She came to the USA, got married, worked in a Thai joint long enough to build a " client base", went back to hooking. Ripped off her hubby enough to open a beauty shop in Udon, lost her money but wasnt smart enough to stay in the USA enough so lost her G Card. She then tried to get the husband to bring her back! She is selling her " goods" on the streets of Udon again but she is to old to sell much. The farangs are all with the 19 year olds that you must have known!

My husband knows an American that thought his fiancee was investing his money in a bakery in BKK. Long story but no bakery. He was so broke my husband had to loan him money enough to survive for a few weeks until his brother could send him some. Being an American he made sure we got our money back. The fiancee became very difficult to contact. I suppose her buns were done.

I know there are those that do the terrible things you describe. Googled knows this too. Its just that we dont know this guys fiancee has done anything wrong. The OP should know her well after this long with her.

I am hoping he responds here so we can help know how to find the truth in what went on here or should I say how to help her present her case again to be granted the visa.

It is true that when you marry a Thai you get the family. My husband loves my mother as his own and we take care of her needs as you are with your family there. If this is done right we feel at peace with our American family as well. I am sure they are thankful for what you do.

[Jamnan_n_Steve 17]

Like to bring the conversation to the 'bolded' section of OP's post:

your fiance has many, many women and he is a player! He doesn't love you and he's not going to marry you. Do you know that he has filed many K1 petitions for women in the past? Why would you think that he is ever going to marry you? I don't believe that you are telling the truth about going to the US to marry this man

We are told that OP had filed an earlier K1 petition, and had met his financee on-line three years ago. As part of my petition I needed to submit all entry stamps; the statement above indicates that much of the suspicion is directed towards the petitioner, not the beneficiary. If there numerous visits before they met the CO may be justified in suspecting that the OP is a player. Of course this may be way off-base, but maybe the focus on the fiancee is misplaced.

steve from Jamnan_n_Steve

[Ning 619]

Like to bring the conversation to the 'bolded' section of OP's post:

your fiance has many, many women and he is a player! He doesn't love you and he's not going to marry you. Do you know that he has filed many K1 petitions for women in the past? Why would you think that he is ever going to marry you? I don't believe that you are telling the truth about going to the US to marry this man

We are told that OP had filed an earlier K1 petition, and had met his financee on-line three years ago. As part of my petition I needed to submit all entry stamps; the statement above indicates that much of the suspicion is directed towards the petitioner, not the beneficiary. If there numerous visits before they met the CO may be justified in suspecting that the OP is a player. Of course this may be way off-base, but maybe the focus on the fiancee is misplaced.

steve from Jamnan_n_Steve

My husband points out that this rendition of what was said may not be a direct quote. The English in it flawed for one thing. He also questions the idea that a CO would say " he doesnt love you" for example. How would anyone know that? Or if the OP would really marry her. If she wasnt going to the USA to be married what was her reason? The 4 K is supposed to be the motive and thats in Thailand spent on gold and whiskey in one version of what may have happened.

Anything is possible here I suppose. The trips you mention were to meet with her to spend time on their relationship from what he said. The focus is on the fiancee because it is she that is trying to get the visa.

[Andy and Pui 16]

I hope we did not scare off the OP. If we have I hope the OP can send a private message to someone here who can help give some advice. If you can please try and sit down with your fiance and try and go back through everything that was said in the interview and have her write down everything even if she thinks it is not important. Ask your fiance if she said anything to the CO after they said your were a player. I hope you get some answers you are looking for and I hope we did not scare you off.

Karee, Pui is from Si Sasket as well. Small world.

[Lingbaa 1]

Thanks everyone for your input on our situation. I wasn't scared off or anything like that, just busy working with my fiancee to gather as many additional documents and a whopping 200 photos of us together everywhere in Thailand and Angkor Wat in Cambodia. Also had a major project already going at my house. I also spoke to a local immigration atty for about 30-45 min over the phone Fri and meeting at his office tomorrow. He did give me some confidence in his ability because he spotted the problem that triggered my RFE before I even told him about it and when I told him there was a problem at the interview he finished my statement by telling me, "And got a white 221g form letter with a box checked off asking for things you've already given them right? It's happening every time with my clients cases in China, Vietnam and Thailand."

My Fiancee and I also had some 'spirited discussions' about my decision to post our case here at VJ and the fact that everyone could see our photo. As I said before, her English skills are excellent and she has read every word in this post and was not too happy about one members comments which called her character into question. She also wanted me to correct one point in that CO did not use the word player and I did take poetic license on that one for the title, since it pretty much sums up what he was saying. She was devastated by the treatment she received during the interview and crying alot with me on the phone afterwards, so these comments did not really help. She is also under the impression that the CO has time to scour the internet for hundreds of websites related to Visa filings to find the ones in Thailand and then find the one written by Lingbaa and match that up to the case he had just denied with a 221g... which he does all day long as he goes about the duties of his sworn post, dashing the dreams of couples everywhere with extreme prejudice. I would guess that he also probably handles dozens of such cases a day and really doesn't care what people have to say about them on the internet. She protested that I put our photo on my profile and although I know that it is not searchable, I nevertheless decided to pull the photo down. have seized up

To touch base on a few things:

Yes my fiancee knows about the other K1 from 5 years ago and she knew about it before we ever filed and she knew that I had to add further explanation in the RFE sent to USCIS before they granted the NOA2. She's been fully understanding and supportive, never blaming me for the delay that this caused in our case as I sorted out the RFE. We never really talked about these things too much as she did not want to relive the past and neither did I. I suppose if there is something to be learned from my experience and that is to go overy every name, date and detail of the previous K1 if someone reads about my case in the future and also has a previous filing. I never anticipated that the CO would focus on that one aspect and relentlessly ask for details on a case that did not pertain to her. She said I know he had one and that's all I know for sure.

I wouldn't place too much importance on any one item from that list above as some have read into the part about household registration books. It's a form letter, the only thing changed from one case to the next is the Aplicant name, date, case # and then the X in the open box, in our case it's the top one re: "Evidence of your relationship with the petitioner". Below that (unchecked for us) are 5 other boxes for Police Cert, Medical Exam, I-864/I-134, Consent letter from biological mother or father, and one marked Other with an open field where case-specific comments could be added.

I don't think that the CO ever looked at the wire transfer or took it into account in rendering his decision. If he saw that and felt that this was some form of exploitation or revealed some disingenuous aspect of our relationship, I do not believe for one second that this CO would not have seized upon it during the interview. I've even read in other visa sites that it helps to show that there has been some evidence of financial planning for the future. In our situation, my fiancee is the oldest of two daughters and her parents of course love them very much and worked hard to send them to college to get an education. They are not from Issarn and nor are they from BKK. Her father owns his own business which requires a lot of hard work and a significant investment in capital equipment and overhead, and my fiancee is a partner in this business to a degree since she is an accountant and helps with things like keeping the books and paying vendors and handling payroll and such. I know she has a good salary and at times will bring some money to them when she visits, which she does several times a month. This is totally normal in Thai culture as children see themselves as paying back the kindness that their parents have shown to them and raising them and it's something I am fully supportive of, otherwise I would never consider marrying my fiancee or any Thai person for that matter. Now my fiancee's parents learn that an American loves their daughter and she plans to move to America with him. We discussed the wedding plans and an amount for 250-300 guests and I wanted to assure him that I was financially responsible and would make good on a deposit towards that amount soon. I'm sure that my action gave them more confidence in my sincerity, and my fiancee confirmed that after returning home that weekend. I see myself as a part of their family in the future and spending time with them on our vacations and bringing back grandchildren as we definielty have plans to start a family. My fiancee's parents always make me feel welcome in their home and I know that some day my wife and I will be the ones to support them and make life more comfortable in retirement. I have a good career and this does not worry me. I was happy to see that my fiancee's mother already feels comfortable enough to joke with me, questioning whether the alligator in my new profile photo was able to breathe.

Our latest plan will be to supply a ton of photos since that seems to be what they want to see after reviewing several other successful 221g requests for more info, and also a sworn affidavit from both of her parents detailing the several times that I have visited and we have gone to dinner as a large group and discussed plans for a wedding which is planned for 2013 after our daughter completes her visa and AOS. Furthermore, our future son in law has already placed a deposit for the wedding and here is a record of where it went from our daughter's account into our account on such and such dates. I will be discussing my plans with the atty tomorrow however I feel that this approach is without any holes for them to deny my sincerity in following through on our relationship.

Thanks for listening and a special thanks to one VJer for coming to my fiancee's defense, it was appreciated!

[Ning 619]

Thanks everyone for your input on our situation. I wasn't scared off or anything like that, just busy working with my fiancee to gather as many additional documents and a whopping 200 photos of us together everywhere in Thailand and Angkor Wat in Cambodia. Also had a major project already going at my house. I also spoke to a local immigration atty for about 30-45 min over the phone Fri and meeting at his office tomorrow. He did give me some confidence in his ability because he spotted the problem that triggered my RFE before I even told him about it and when I told him there was a problem at the interview he finished my statement by telling me, "And got a white 221g form letter with a box checked off asking for things you've already given them right? It's happening every time with my clients cases in China, Vietnam and Thailand."

My Fiancee and I also had some 'spirited discussions' about my decision to post our case here at VJ and the fact that everyone could see our photo. As I said before, her English skills are excellent and she has read every word in this post and was not too happy about one members comments which called her character into question. She also wanted me to correct one point in that CO did not use the word player and I did take poetic license on that one for the title, since it pretty much sums up what he was saying. She was devastated by the treatment she received during the interview and crying alot with me on the phone afterwards, so these comments did not really help. She is also under the impression that the CO has time to scour the internet for hundreds of websites related to Visa filings to find the ones in Thailand and then find the one written by Lingbaa and match that up to the case he had just denied with a 221g... which he does all day long as he goes about the duties of his sworn post, dashing the dreams of couples everywhere with extreme prejudice. I would guess that he also probably handles dozens of such cases a day and really doesn't care what people have to say about them on the internet. She protested that I put our photo on my profile and although I know that it is not searchable, I nevertheless decided to pull the photo down. have seized up

To touch base on a few things:

Yes my fiancee knows about the other K1 from 5 years ago and she knew about it before we ever filed and she knew that I had to add further explanation in the RFE sent to USCIS before they granted the NOA2. She's been fully understanding and supportive, never blaming me for the delay that this caused in our case as I sorted out the RFE. We never really talked about these things too much as she did not want to relive the past and neither did I. I suppose if there is something to be learned from my experience and that is to go overy every name, date and detail of the previous K1 if someone reads about my case in the future and also has a previous filing. I never anticipated that the CO would focus on that one aspect and relentlessly ask for details on a case that did not pertain to her. She said I know he had one and that's all I know for sure.

I wouldn't place too much importance on any one item from that list above as some have read into the part about household registration books. It's a form letter, the only thing changed from one case to the next is the Aplicant name, date, case # and then the X in the open box, in our case it's the top one re: "Evidence of your relationship with the petitioner". Below that (unchecked for us) are 5 other boxes for Police Cert, Medical Exam, I-864/I-134, Consent letter from biological mother or father, and one marked Other with an open field where case-specific comments could be added.

I don't think that the CO ever looked at the wire transfer or took it into account in rendering his decision. If he saw that and felt that this was some form of exploitation or revealed some disingenuous aspect of our relationship, I do not believe for one second that this CO would not have seized upon it during the interview. I've even read in other visa sites that it helps to show that there has been some evidence of financial planning for the future. In our situation, my fiancee is the oldest of two daughters and her parents of course love them very much and worked hard to send them to college to get an education. They are not from Issarn and nor are they from BKK. Her father owns his own business which requires a lot of hard work and a significant investment in capital equipment and overhead, and my fiancee is a partner in this business to a degree since she is an accountant and helps with things like keeping the books and paying vendors and handling payroll and such. I know she has a good salary and at times will bring some money to them when she visits, which she does several times a month. This is totally normal in Thai culture as children see themselves as paying back the kindness that their parents have shown to them and raising them and it's something I am fully supportive of, otherwise I would never consider marrying my fiancee or any Thai person for that matter. Now my fiancee's parents learn that an American loves their daughter and she plans to move to America with him. We discussed the wedding plans and an amount for 250-300 guests and I wanted to assure him that I was financially responsible and would make good on a deposit towards that amount soon. I'm sure that my action gave them more confidence in my sincerity, and my fiancee confirmed that after returning home that weekend. I see myself as a part of their family in the future and spending time with them on our vacations and bringing back grandchildren as we definielty have plans to start a family. My fiancee's parents always make me feel welcome in their home and I know that some day my wife and I will be the ones to support them and make life more comfortable in retirement. I have a good career and this does not worry me. I was happy to see that my fiancee's mother already feels comfortable enough to joke with me, questioning whether the alligator in my new profile photo was able to breathe.

Our latest plan will be to supply a ton of photos since that seems to be what they want to see after reviewing several other successful 221g requests for more info, and also a sworn affidavit from both of her parents detailing the several times that I have visited and we have gone to dinner as a large group and discussed plans for a wedding which is planned for 2013 after our daughter completes her visa and AOS. Furthermore, our future son in law has already placed a deposit for the wedding and here is a record of where it went from our daughter's account into our account on such and such dates. I will be discussing my plans with the atty tomorrow however I feel that this approach is without any holes for them to deny my sincerity in following through on our relationship.

Thanks for listening and a special thanks to one VJer for coming to my fiancee's defense, it was appreciated!

This is absolutely incredible. This guy and his Thai fiancee are an amazing couple. When the facts are known I cant describe how badly I feel for her to have been treated so badly and can totaly understand her being devastated.

I usually am not a fan of lawyers but it seems you have found a good one and will truly benefit from his advise. I think it isnt needed but it isnt my life on the line.

I believe strongly that once she has complied with the request for additional info she will be granted the visa. If they werent going to do that they would have returned her submitted docs to her right then. You can see that the dumb a$$ CO couldnt do that; he had to do his job and give her the right chance.

I doubt this level of love and understanding in a realationship can be denied by anyone especially someone that is simply a misplaced worker for a huge dept of a govt.

In my own case I was denied a tourist visa 3 times and was devastated myself. I know how that feels. We or I had every intention and need to return to Thailand but the COs just would grant me the visa. My husband was there each time. On the 3rd attempt he was barely able to contain his anger and told the CO " This embassy will be granting her a visa I promise you that". The CO was nice but said it would nevr happen.

We walked outside and I began to cry. My husband said dont worry about a thing its all going to be fine. I didnt have any idea of what he had in mind. We own land in Thailand. He began building things on that land such as his garage and walls. He improved the entire site. He bought us a new truck and motorcycle.

The next day he told me to begin selling everything we owned except the land.? He said he had begun the work it takes to move us to America to become citizens. He said " you and our daughter are going to become U S citizen and then no one will ever decide what you will do or where you will do it again". Everything we had planned was over and a new plan was born.

We will become U S citizens very soon. I love this country and what it has done for us. I love the CO that made it impossible for me to get a tourist visa. One day soon he will be working for me so to speak. I'll think about that as I file my taxes this year.

This couple will have their own story one day soon about life in America. For now I am happy to know she is from a good Thai family and deserves our total respect as does the OP.

Thank you for taking the time to tell us this incredible story. No matter what was said I submit to you that everyone means well and wants you to succeed. Please let us know how the next and final interview goes. It should be very short with the outcome being the visa was granted.