I will not raise taxes on the Middle Class

[MyLittlePony 340]

I feel like a jackass now i think the Obama administration is being sneaky fvckers.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Question: Will taxes be lower following the passage of the bill or not?

Answer: Yes, taxes will be lower than they are today once the bill is signed.

Question: What do we call a bill that lowers taxes?

Answer: A tax cut.

The SS tax rates have reverted to their 6.2% level following the expiration of the payroll tax holiday on 31 Dec 2012. Calling that a tax hike would be the same as calling it a price hike when your local grocery store reverts an item back to its regular price after having offered it temporarily at a sale price. Do you accuse your grocer of hiking prices in that situation?

Actually taxes will be the same as last year for some of us, higher for others. If you think that is a tax cut then by all means.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Actually taxes will be the same as last year for some of us, higher for others. If you think that is a tax cut then by all means.

Your point of reference is off. To accurately answer the question whether taxes are higher or lower due the bill that Congress passed on New Year's Day you would have to compare these two scenarios:

1) The bill did not pass

2) The bill did pass

In which scenario would taxes be higher? Right, scenario 1 would have meant higher taxes for every American. If Congress had done nothing at all, taxes would be dramatically higher across the board. Congress acted and passed the bill and as a result most Americans - 98.5% of them - now will have a lower tax bill than they would have had w/o Congress passing that bill. If a bill results in taxes being lower than they would be without it, that makes it a tax cut.

The fact that temporary tax relief expired as scheduled means that the time period when that temporary tax relief was in effect is a very poor point of reference.

[Karee 4,190]

Your point of reference is off. To accurately answer the question whether taxes are higher or lower due the bill that Congress passed on New Year's Day you would have to compare these two scenarios:

1) The bill did not pass

2) The bill did pass

In which scenario would taxes be higher? Right, scenario 1 would have meant higher taxes for every American. If Congress had done nothing at all, taxes would be dramatically higher across the board. Congress acted and passed the bill and as a result most Americans - 98.5% of them - now will have a lower tax bill than they would have had w/o Congress passing that bill. If a bill results in taxes being lower than they would be without it, that makes it a tax cut.

The fact that temporary tax relief expired as scheduled means that the time period when that temporary tax relief was in effect is a very poor point of reference.

Hey if that logic works for you, congratulations. I think any rational person without an agenda sees it differently.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Hey if that logic works for you, congratulations. I think any rational person without an agenda sees it differently.

Well, if you want to look at it differently, then what happened with the passage of the bill is right about what the majority of voters said they wanted to happen - tax rates on high incomes went up. That's what the President and Democrats campaigned on in November and a solid popular majority of voters across all election contests (POTUS, Senate and House) voted for them. Why is there an issue with politicians delivering post election what they promised to deliver prior to the election?

Edited January 3, 2013 by Mr. Big Dog

[Karee 4,190]

Well, if you want to look at it differently, then what happened with the passage of the bill is right about what the majority of voters said they wanted to happen - tax rates on high incomes went up. That's what the President and Democrats campaigned on in November and a solid popular majority of voters across all election contests (POTUS, Senate and House) voted for them. Why is there an issue with politicians delivering post election what they promised to deliver prior to the election?

Like I said, if that works in your world, fine. In my world, my taxes just went up 2%. And they went up 2% while Obama was president.

[^_^ 5,021]

Like I said, if that works in your world, fine. In my world, my taxes just went up 2%. And they went up 2% while Obama was president.

Who was president when the payroll tax holiday started?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

In my world, my taxes just went up 2%. And they went up 2% while Obama was president.

On the contrary, while Obama was President, your tax burden was temporarily lowered by 2% of your first 106K of earned income. If you make $100K a year, Obama saved you $4K in taxes over the course of two years on that stimulus measure alone. If you make 50K a year, he saved you $2K.

Let me ask you: Have you also blamed Bush and the Republicans for raising your taxes in 2003 when they stopped sending you annual stimulus checks as they did in 2001 and 2002? I am asking because the only differences between these two stimulus measures was that the stimulus checks under Bush came lump sum and were generally smaller than the stimulus break in the payroll tax that you got under Obama.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

On the contrary, while Obama was President, your tax burden was temporarily lowered by 2% of your first 106K of earned income. If you make $100K a year, Obama saved you $4K in taxes over the course of two years on that stimulus measure alone. If you make 50K a year, he saved you $2K.

Let me ask you: Have you also blamed Bush and the Republicans for raising your taxes in 2003 when they stopped sending you annual stimulus checks as they did in 2001 and 2002? I am asking because the only differences between these two stimulus measures was that the stimulus checks under Bush came lump sum and were generally smaller than the stimulus break in the payroll tax that you got under Obama.

So not sending me a check I got one time is a tax increase, but when more money comes out of my check every two weeks it is not..

By God Gump your a genius.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

So not sending me a check I got one time is a tax increase, but when more money comes out of my check every two weeks it is not..

By God Gump your a genius.

On the contrary, the genius is you! It takes some very special talent to read what you read out of what I actually posted. It may have escaped you but rather than making a statement, I actually asked a question which interestingly hasn't been answered.

For the record, when I did not receive a stimulus check in 2003 after having received them in 2001 and 2002, I did not complain that my taxes were raised. Similarly, now that my stimulus funds from the payroll tax holiday are discontinued I am not complaining that my taxes were raised. They weren't in either scenario. In both cases my tax burden was temporarily lowered.

The only differences I can see between these stimulus measures is that in 2001 and 2002 they amounted to a few hundred bucks a year and were received in an annual lump sum. In 2011 and 2012 it amounted to a few thousand bucks a year which I received in equal increments with every one of my paychecks.