I will not raise taxes on the Middle Class

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

CBO shot down Obama and your claiming either a tax cut or deficit reduction with this tax package. You may want to look that up. I would, but I don't have the time at the moment.

4 trillion in new debt and loaded with Pork.. The dems have saved us again

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

CBO shot down Obama and your claiming either a tax cut or deficit reduction with this tax package. You may want to look that up. I would, but I don't have the time at the moment.

The CBO scored this bill as adding $4 trillion dollars to the deficit vs. the law in existence prior to it's passage. If the fed will be $4 trillion dollars deeper in red because of a bill that had very little spending provisions in it then that would mean that $4 trillion dollars comes off the revenues. If the fed cuts revenues (aka taxes) by $4 trillion dollars, how is that not a tax cut?

I never claimed that this deal was reducing the deficit. It clearly isn't. I don't recall Obama making such claim either.

4 trillion in new debt and loaded with Pork.. The dems have saved us again

So tax cuts add to the deficit? I thought they don't?

That little bit of pork is not pretty but in the grand scheme of things, it's negligible.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Mr. Big Dog

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Oddly the same what? Tax rates? Not really. None are the same right now. All taxes went up and that's where they still are. Now, it's reasonable to assume that the President will sign the new tax rates into law in the near future. Then some tax rates will be the same as they were on 12/31/12. And some will not be. Again, I am concerned about your level of misinformation.

My bad. with all the high five slapping chest bumping and Dems saved the day cheer leading you were doing this AM, I assumed it had been signed. I should have checked for myself. Now if you will excuse me I will sit down by my warm inviting environment destryoing fire and look at at my man made lake, that obviosluy is a figment of my imagination, because we all know man does not make lakes.

So why did Obama spend 100,00's of dollars flying to DC from another Vacation and not sign the bill saving the Bush tax cuts you hated before you were for them. All they did was dem them up with lot's of pork.

Liberal Logic gotta love they have more positions on every issue than the Kama Sutra.

The CBO scored this bill as adding $4 trillion dollars to the deficit vs. the law in existence prior to it's passage. If the fed will be $4 trillion dollars deeper in red because of a bill that had very little spending provisions in it then that would mean that $4 trillion dollars comes off the revenues. If the fed cuts revenues (aka taxes) by $4 trillion dollars, how is that not a tax cut?

I never claimed that this deal was reducing the deficit. It clearly isn't. I don't recall Obama making such claim either.

So tax cuts add to the deficit? I thought they don't?

That little bit of pork is not pretty but in the grand scheme of things, it's negligible.

The only thing that adds to debt is spending more than you take in. A fact.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The only thing that adds to debt is spending more than you take in. A fact.

So the tax cuts passed yesterday do NOT add to the deficit? The CBO is wrong?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

...we all know man does not make lakes.

We do? I know several lakes that man made. Who says that man doesn't make lakes? Surely you're not suggesting I said that. We had this exchange very recently, I would hope that you still recall what I actually said. If you don't, you should make an appointment with your physician soon. I'd be concerned about you in that case.

So why did Obama spend 100,00's of dollars flying to DC from another Vacation and not sign the bill saving the Bush tax cuts you hated before you were for them.

First, I am not for the Bush tax cuts. Not now, not yesterday, not in 2001 or anywhere in-between. Second, there is no bill the President could possibly sign into law that would save the Bush tax cuts. Why? well, because Congress hasn't passed any such bill. Nor would he have signed a bill that would have done that. He was pretty clear about that ever since he signed the bill that temporarily saved the Bush tax cuts back in December of 2010. Let me say it again for the cheap seats in the back: The Bush tax cuts are gone. History. Expired. Done away with. Period.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Mr. Big Dog

[dalegg 143]

The Bush tax cuts are gone. History. Expired. Done away with. Period.[/size][/b]

For some reason I can still picture Howard Dean next year explaining that the reason we still have a 1 trillion dollar deficit is because the Bush tax cuts are still in place for people making $200K to $400K.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

For some reason I can still picture Howard Dean next year explaining that the reason we still have a 1 trillion dollar deficit is because the Bush tax cuts are still in place for people making $200K to $400K.

He would be wrong if he made that claim because the Bush tax cuts are gone as of yesterday.

[Karee 4,190]

He would be wrong if he made that claim because the Bush tax cuts are gone as of yesterday.

Cool, now we can start calling it Obama's payroll tax increase and deficit.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Cool, now we can start calling it Obama's payroll tax increase and deficit.

Obama payroll tax increase? I remember the SS tax being 6.2% when Obama came into office. I see it being 6.2% today? How did Obama raise that tax?

Publix had pasta on sale this week - buy one get one free. Brings the price of my pasta down to less than $0.70 a pack. I know that next week they will sell the same pasta for $1.39 a pack which is the regular price on that item. Should I slam them next week for doubling the price of pasta? Of course not, that would make me look foolish since it would suggest that I can't grasp the concept of a temporary price cut. Of course, I can grasp that concept. Can you?

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Obama payroll tax increase? I remember the SS tax being 6.2% when Obama came into office. I see it being 6.2% today? How did Obama raise that tax?

But when a Bill is passed on Jan 2 to revert taxes to what they where Dec 31 it's a huge Dem tax cut. Nice Logic.. You got to be a troll. Nobody could actually say that and mean it.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

But when a Bill is passed on Jan 2 to revert taxes to what they where Dec 31 it's a huge Dem tax cut. Nice Logic.

Question: Will taxes be lower following the passage of the bill or not?

Answer: Yes, taxes will be lower than they are today once the bill is signed.

Question: What do we call a bill that lowers taxes?

Answer: A tax cut.

The SS tax rates have reverted to their 6.2% level following the expiration of the payroll tax holiday on 31 Dec 2012. Calling that a tax hike would be the same as calling it a price hike when your local grocery store reverts an item back to its regular price after having offered it temporarily at a sale price. Do you accuse your grocer of hiking prices in that situation?

Edited January 3, 2013 by Mr. Big Dog

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Question: What do we call a bill that lowers taxes?

Answer: A tax cut.

And what do we call a bill that raises taxes on 77% of Americans? Hint: A tax hike.

The SS tax rates have reverted to their 6.2% level following the expiration of the payroll tax holiday on 31 Dec 2012. Calling that a tax hike would be the same as calling it a price hike when your local grocery store reverts an item back to its regular price after having offered it temporarily at a sale price. Do you accuse your grocer of hiking prices in that situation?

When did you ever take a holiday that lasted, more or less, for four years?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

And what do we call a bill that raises taxes on 77% of Americans? Hint: A tax hike.

That statement is true. Problem is that I don't know what bill you are talking about. Are you still mad about the bill that they passed back in 2010 that Republicans supported more heavily than Democrats? Because THAT is the bill that raised your taxes yesterday. The bill that passed the House yesterday did not raise a single tax. The tax raise had already happened. The bill that passed yesterday did not cause these tax hikes. It passed the House AFTER the tax hikes had already happened earlier that day.

When did you ever take a holiday that lasted, more or less, for four years?

2 years, actually. Payroll tax rates were lowered to 4.2% for 2011. Then at the end of 2011 they were lowered for a few months into 2012 and then early in 2012 that was extended to the end of the year. Some wanted to extend it for another year but there was no support in Congress to make that happen. On neither side of the aisle.

I mean even our friends over at Free Republic understand that the expiration of temporary payroll tax relief cannot be called a tax hike. Come to notice that this admission came from the authority on what is and what isn't a tax hike - Grover Norquist's ATR.

Payroll Tax Holiday: Temporary from the Beginning

ATR ^ | 2012-01-13 | Rushad Thomas

Posted on Friday, January 13, 2012 3:39:02 PM by 92nina

In December 2010, Congress enacted a 2 percentage point payroll tax reduction, bringing the FICA rate down from 6.2 percent to 4.2 percent as a part of the legislation extending unemployment benefits and preventing tax rates from rising. All throughout the debate Democrats billed the reduction as a temporary move, slated to expire on December 31, 2011. Congress is considering whether to extend this rebate. Because it was always a temporary measure, opposition to this extension cannot fairly be called support for a tax increase. There is ample evidence that Democrats always believed the payroll tax rebate to be temporary.

Does that make Grover a left wing nut job now?

Edited January 3, 2013 by Mr. Big Dog

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

2 years, actually. Payroll tax rates were lowered to 4.2% for 2011. Then at the end of 2011 they were lowered for a few months into 2012 and then early in 2012 that was extended to the end of the year. Some wanted to extend it for another year but there was no support in Congress to make that happen. On neither side of the aisle.

That is why I said more, or less. It began with stimulus checks, then became a refundable tax credit, and in the final incarnation, a reduction in payroll/self-employment taxes. The money was paid out of the general fund, either in the form of payments directly to the public initially, reduction in income taxes owed or refunds, or by incurring the same obligations to the social security trust fund as if the full social security taxes were collected by the IRS and paid into the treasury.

Edited January 3, 2013 by The Patriot

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

That is why I said more, or less. It began with stimulus checks, then became a refundable tax credit, and in the final incarnation, a reduction in payroll/self-employment taxes. The money was paid out of the general fund, either in the form of payments directly to the public initially, reduction in income taxes owed or refunds, or by incurring the same obligations to the social security trust fund as if the full payroll taxes were collected by the IRS and paid into the treasury.

Right. I remember receiving stimulus checks early on when Bush was President and the GOP controlled both chambers of Congress. Those checks were mailed out in 2001 and 2002 but not in the years thereafter until I think 2007 and 2008. Don't recall anyone saying that Republicans hiked taxes in 2003 because the stimulus checks that went out in 2001 and 2002 were discontinued. Everyone knew from the onset that these were a temporary measure meant to stimulate the economy and that they would not continue - side note: yes, there was a time when Republicans believed in the government stimulating the economy. When they did discontinue the stimulus checks as anticipated in 2003, nobody in their right mind accused Republicans of having hiked taxes. It's why temporary measures are called temporary. They are supposed end.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Mr. Big Dog