Ban hands and feet

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I can talk about it, because I have lived there. My mom and dad still do. I go home every weekend and get the safety brief about where I can and can't go, what times and if I need to "borrow" my dad's piece.

No one is suggesting that they those law abiding citizens who follow the rules have their guns taken away, but how much firepower do you need to feel safe? I find it funny that those in the inner city, with violence and death all around them 24/7, don't have 50 guns in their house, just one. It's what they can afford, and they don't want any more. It's not about the 2nd amendment, it's about life and death, and they know it doesn't matter what weapon you have. Yet those living in Safetown USA can't even go to the porch without their guns so they can show everyone they are packing. I would love to see them in the hood, they wouldn't last a full work day.

If you are going to post pics of gangsters, please post some real ones.

In the United States, Vermont, the rules are simple. Go where you want, anytime you want. Bring your own gun if you want.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I was born and raised in St. Louis, back then it wasn't as bad as it is now. When I got back from basic training back in 1994, I was shocked to see how bad things had fallen, I was only gone 7 months and when I returned, my mom had bars on the windows. Talk about a culture shock, and what's worse is we used to live in a decent neighborhood, now it's straight hood. If you can clean up the area with jobs and maybe stop idolizing those saggy pants and bad behavior, we might be able to work something out.

I live in the United States of America. Banning saggy pants is right up there with banning bayonet lugs. We have people wearing saggy pants in the United States, but virtually no crime.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

"Consistently" means multiple years, on an ongoing basis. We occasionally switch back and forth from 49th to 50th in overall crime rate ranking. Show me another state consistently at the bottom of the crime rankings. also compare categories of major crime.

You like to post stats, why not this one?

It's census data. Maine fared better in both violent and property crime. Then again, there are more people living in a 20 mile radius around my house than in all of Vermont. There more people living in my county than in Maine and Vermont combined. That does make a difference so your comparing Vermont where you can run around for days without ever seeing another person with states where people live falls flat.

[james&olya 1,121]

I can see your a real bright one Teddy.

I picked one of these up years back at the local drug store for $199.99 You can get them for even cheaper now at Walmart and Fred Meyers.

When I lived in Fairbanks I bought one similar to that to carry when we were hiking or picking berries. There you may need some firepower to discourage some really bad actors that might weigh up to half a ton of meanness. The 4-legged grizzly kind. Never had to use it but I was prepared. I left it with my brother up there when I moved back to the lower 48.

Do you wanna give it a shot? I don't.

Pun intended?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Oh I don't know maybe because you said this I think the below sentence says banning assault weapons is the least of the worries. Maybe it is you that can't understand what words mean.

Mr. Big Dog--"Why are you all hung up on that assault weapons ban discussion? That's the least of the worries. Preventing access to firearms - all firearms - to people who should not have such access is what the issue is. THAT is what needs to happen."

I see, it's not comprehension that's lacking, it's endurance or some sort of an attention deficit issue. Anything that's past the first sentence or two doesn't make it through to you. Let me try and highlight it for you. Maybe you'll manage to take it then. Let me know if that works, too, so I can make sure to highlight the relevant passages for you going forward.

Mr. Big Dog--Why are you all hung up on that assault weapons ban discussion? That's the least of the worries. Preventing access to firearms - all firearms - to people who should not have such access is what the issue is. THAT is what needs to happen. Assault weapons should not be in civilian hands - that is common sense. We know that gun nuts lack common sense so naturally they will not ever be able to grasp the obvious. It's not the big issue but those should come off the streets all the same.

Clear now?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

It's census data. Maine fared better in both violent and property crime. Then again, there are more people living in a 20 mile radius around my house than in all of Vermont. There more people living in my county than in Maine and Vermont combined. That does make a difference so your comparing Vermont where you can run around for days without ever seeing another person with states where people live falls flat.

Post your data please. I believe you are distorting it purposely. Holy ####### my eyes are still stinging from seeing every shooting which occurred at a school for decades posted by you! You should be able to post some simple crime stats.

Until you find a reason to refuse to post things which will prove you are wrong...

1. Crime rates take into account population. They are rates/100,000 population. Vermont's low population does not serve it well in such stats. So if it STILL comes out at the bottom, that says something!

2. You are saying population is the problem?

3. Your claim that you can "run around for days without seeing people" contributes to the aura of ignorance around you. Vermont is more densely populated than half the states (it is small, remember) 17 times more densely populated than our neighbor, Quebec, where you actually CAN run around for days, even months, without seeing anyone, where they HAVE the restrictions you want on guns, and where they have 3 times the crime RATE we have in Vermont (USA)

1. If population density is the problem, why would you propose gun laws? How does that affect the problem of population density?

2. If Vermont (USA) is irrelevent, why did you answer?

3. If Vermont (USA) IS relevent, why wouldn't you suggest copying our gun laws?

[himher 634]

Well you missed your chance to share with your breathless audience an example of how and why this is not and has not been the case there sport.

You now have a formal opportunity to either do it and share it (or) go suck wind with your fantasy utopian theories coupled with lack of examples of why you believe you are right. Hint: I would, in your shoes, probably table that German utopia where you attended school LOL.

Let's hear about an example, anywhere or anytime, that either a government with unlimited powers in an unarmed society did not engage in killing large numbers in that society OR that there has ever been a society, anytime, anywhere, that did not achieve security for itself by anything other than force.

That's not the case. In your fantasy world, the only way to achieve safety is at the barrel of a gun. That's a false and rather sick view of the world.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I live in the United States of America. Banning saggy pants is right up there with banning bayonet lugs. We have people wearing saggy pants in the United States, but virtually no crime.

I have to ask do you post things because you are trying to get a rise out of folks or do you really think in your mind what you say has any relevancy to the topic at hand? Even the people that are very pro gun agree with what I said, arming everyone isn't the answer. To lessen gun crime, you need to get to the root of the problem. For the hoods, clean them up, get the kids off the streets and back in school and church. It starts at home with parents and ends with the teachers, pastors, community folks. If you instill discipline and respect in people, chances are they will go further. For the suburbs, be a parent, not a best friend. Listen to those kids who have issues, pay attention to them and find out what they are doing and who they are hanging out with. And if you must have an arsenal in your house, for God's sake lock up those guns and make sure someone can't get his hands on them. Or stop bragging to complete strangers that you have guns, find something else to talk about. Shouldn't be too hard for you to do.

Edited December 29, 2012 by Su and Marvin

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Post your data please. I believe you are distorting it purposely.

What's this gimme attitude? Can you try and be a little self sufficient from time to time? I gave you the link to the data. Everyone can click the link and see the data. I am not distorting anything. If I do, then post the data and expose me. Fact is, you can't because the data I linked to shows what I say it shows. Maine is the state with the lowest crime rates - both violent and property crimes.

Edited December 29, 2012 by Mr. Big Dog

[himher 634]

(laughing) at the label "gun nut"

Nothing in my home makes your ban list except my views (well except for that dratted old A303 bolt gun that came from the war in your German utopia. It probably helped build that utopia for you just sayin')

I dont necessarily care about the magazine sizes either. A 10-round mag in the hands of the experienced is just as effective as a 30-round mag in the hands of the "spray and pray" type.

Our founders spoke harsher words about guns and government than gun owners today. They were gun nuts? If so then those gun nuts really built something special didnt they? I do care a lot about keeping and maintaining what they built.

I see, it's not comprehension that's lacking, it's endurance or some sort of an attention deficit issue. Anything that's past the first sentence or two doesn't make it through to you. Let me try and highlight it for you. Maybe you'll manage to take it then. Let me know if that works, too, so I can make sure to highlight the relevant passages for you going forward.

Mr. Big Dog--Why are you all hung up on that assault weapons ban discussion? That's the least of the worries. Preventing access to firearms - all firearms - to people who should not have such access is what the issue is. THAT is what needs to happen. Assault weapons should not be in civilian hands - that is common sense. We know that gun nuts lack common sense so naturally they will not ever be able to grasp the obvious. It's not the big issue but those should come off the streets all the same.

Clear now?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Well you missed your chance to share with your breathless audience an example of how and why this is not and has not been the case there sport.

What example do you need? There are over 30,000 of them every year. 30,000 people die by firearm every year in this country. Safety by the barrel of a gun didn't work so well for them, did it? Many of them would be alive today if it weren't for a firearm. Firearms are made to produce death. And that is exactly what they do.

Our founders spoke harsher words about guns and government than gun owners today. They were gun nuts?

No, they lived in different times.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I have to ask do you post things because you are trying to get a rise out of folks or do you really think in your mind what you say has any relevancy to the topic at hand? Even the people that are very pro gun agree with what I said, arming everyone isn't the answer. To lessen gun crime, you need to get to the root of the problem. For the hoods, clean them up, get the kids off the streets and back in school and church. It starts at home with parents and ends with the teachers, pastors, community folks. If you instill discipline and respect in people, chances are they will go further. For the suburbs, be a parent, not a best friend. Listen to those kids who have issues, pay attention to them and find out what they are doing and who they are hanging out with. And if you must have an arsenal in your house, for God's sake lock up those guns and make sure someone can't get his hands on them. Or stop bragging to complete strangers that you have guns, find something else to talk about. Shouldn't be too hard for you to do.

I like to talk about this. Though I agree with you I am well rounded and can talk about a lot of things intelligently, I am particularly knowledgeable of firearms. So then, you can answer the questions in order, I made it easy for you.

1. Why are crime rates in my area irrlevent and crime rates in your area ARE relevent? Explain why we should care that you cannot walk around anywhere you want, but not care that I can walk around anywhere I want.

2. I agree with starting at the root of the problem, and I agree with you that guns are not the root of the problem. So why are we starting with gun laws?

(the following are non-questions, probably irrelevent, right?)

3. I do not follow what other, so called "very pro gun" people say just because YOU say they are "very pro gun people" THAT is irrelevent. I am VERY pro civil rights. I believe the answer involves allowing ANY person to be armed. That is NOT the same as "arming every person". It is not necessary that every person be armed, only necessary that every person be ALLOWED to be armed. Clearly the evidence in Vermont shows that. I am pro-choice. Are you?

4. Everyone in this house is trained in the proper and even proficient use of firearms. My gun is loaded and on my hip where no one can get their hands on it without me knowing it. Better than locks.

5. I have a collection, not an arsenal.

6. I would rather brag to strangers that I have guns, than I do not have guns.

7. My children are all doing very well, thank you. They all know about guns. None have saggy pants.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

When I lived in Fairbanks I bought one similar to that to carry when we were hiking or picking berries. There you may need some firepower to discourage some really bad actors that might weigh up to half a ton of meanness. The 4-legged grizzly kind. Never had to use it but I was prepared. I left it with my brother up there when I moved back to the lower 48.

Pun intended?

I got one under my bed. Much more lethal weapon than my Bushmaster.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

I see, it's not comprehension that's lacking, it's endurance or some sort of an attention deficit issue. Anything that's past the first sentence or two doesn't make it through to you. Let me try and highlight it for you. Maybe you'll manage to take it then. Let me know if that works, too, so I can make sure to highlight the relevant passages for you going forward.

Mr. Big Dog--Why are you all hung up on that assault weapons ban discussion? That's the least of the worries. Preventing access to firearms - all firearms - to people who should not have such access is what the issue is. THAT is what needs to happen. Assault weapons should not be in civilian hands - that is common sense. We know that gun nuts lack common sense so naturally they will not ever be able to grasp the obvious. It's not the big issue but those should come off the streets all the same.

Clear now?

It was clear from the first time you changed you position from it being theI sssue to not being the issue. I think you finally saw how absurd it was.

So what is the issue . What do you want banned and how ??

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

(laughing) at the label "gun nut"

Nothing in my home makes your ban list except my views (well except for that dratted old A303 bolt gun that came from the war in your German utopia. It probably helped build that utopia for you just sayin')

I dont necessarily care about the magazine sizes either. A 10-round mag in the hands of the experienced is just as effective as a 30-round mag in the hands of the "spray and pray" type.

Our founders spoke harsher words about guns and government than gun owners today. They were gun nuts? If so then those gun nuts really built something special didnt they? I do care a lot about keeping and maintaining what they built.

Your exactly right. Anyone arguing that it is important to have 10 round mags and not 30 is a weapons grade idiot. That does not understand how little difference that makes in most situations. Also it is soooooo easy to fabricate magazines. Once again it's an issue designed to excite people that know nothing about tactics or guns. If we want a gun ban then go after it. Stop pretending, by doing stupid stuff like calling for 10 round limits on magazine.

If that is your big issue you are either ignorant about weapons, dumb as a brick, or both.