4 firefighters shot, 2 dead, after responding to blaze

[Ban Hammer 13,570]

Military police were at the scene within minutes and exchanged fire with Hassan, still not able to bring him down.

thanks for proving my earlier post about who was armed.

His weapon was not military issue, it was a privately purchased semi automatic handgun with multiple large capacity (20 to 30 round)magazines. Why is anyone allowed to purchase these weapons?

so which is responsible: the firearm, the magazine, or the shooter?

Their only purpose is to kill and based on evidence they get the job done. Over 240 spent shell casings were found at the scene and Hassan had over 170 unfired rounds still on him when he was brought down. Completey ridiculous that anyone would be allowed to purchase this type of weapon.

what's ridiculous is the warning signs that were ignored by his chain of command.

[Ban Hammer 13,570]

Hey Charles, when were you in Fort Hood? I did 2 years there at 3rd Sig Brigade.

If my memory serves correctly, you can have a weapon on base but it would have to be kept in the base armory. He is right about not being able to carry ammo, the first time we had guard duty with the M16, you would have to make a call to the NCOIC first, then they would have to make a call to the CC before you could even touch rounds. Glad no one rushed the gate, I would have to beat them with the butt of my rifle.

81-83, 83-86, 90-94.

you can have a personal firearm stored in the unit armory, IF the commmander and 1sg allow you. and you need a letter approved by them every time you want to draw it. most units wouldn't even allow you to keep it in the armory, they didn't want them so one would have to store them off base.

[Teddy B 17,252]

thanks for proving my earlier post about who was armed.

I wasn't disputing who was or wasn't armed. Fact is, even having their own police force on base still does not prevent this type of thing from happening. BTW, how did Hassan get his weapons on base?

so which is responsible: the firearm, the magazine, or the shooter?

All 3.

what's ridiculous is the warning signs that were ignored by his chain of command.

No argument here.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

81-83, 83-86, 90-94.

you can have a personal firearm stored in the unit armory, IF the commmander and 1sg allow you. and you need a letter approved by them every time you want to draw it. most units wouldn't even allow you to keep it in the armory, they didn't want them so one would have to store them off base.

Gotcha, I was there from 95-97, did the first year in the S3 with 3rd Sig, then finished out my last year working with the G6 in the III corps building under Gen Scharwtz(spelling), and before that General Paul Funk. Killeen made it so easy to buy a gun, I remember you could get a Desert Eagle from Action Pawn for about 700 bucks.

[Ban Hammer 13,570]

I wasn't disputing who was or wasn't armed. Fact is, even having their own police force on base still does not prevent this type of thing from happening. BTW, how did Hassan get his weapons on base?

your earlier post was about the number of firearms there. yeah, there were plenty. however, unloaded firearms aren't very useful when someone is shooting at you.

All 3.

i don't blame inanimate objects for what the operator does.

Gotcha, I was there from 95-97, did the first year in the S3 with 3rd Sig, then finished out my last year working with the G6 in the III corps building under Gen Scharwtz(spelling), and before that General Paul Funk. Killeen made it so easy to buy a gun, I remember you could get a Desert Eagle from Action Pawn for about 700 bucks.

good price - although you still had to go through some checks to buy it from them.

i never saw a pawn store in my entire life until i was at ft hood

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

your earlier post was about the number of firearms there. yeah, there were plenty. however, unloaded firearms aren't very useful when someone is shooting at you.

i don't blame inanimate objects for what the operator does.

good price - although you still had to go through some checks to buy it from them.

i never saw a pawn store in my entire life until i was at ft hood

Killeen was it's own entity, remember you could get a brand new car, plus furnish your entire house on Vet Memorial Dr. with a LES as an E1. I remember so many soliders went broke, you know it's real when you are at the ATM at 2359 waiting to get your paycheck

[Teddy B 17,252]

your earlier post was about the number of firearms there. yeah, there were plenty. however, unloaded firearms aren't very useful when someone is shooting at you.

i don't blame inanimate objects for what the operator does.

The base has it's own police force. Plenty of firepower and extremely quick response times. Fact is, if Hassan did not have the semi-automatic with the large capacity magazines, the amount of deaths would have been much less, if he even attempted it at all.

When inanimate objects are produced for one sole purpose, then they will be used for that purpose. So yes, in a case like this, the inanimate object and the access to it, are just as much to blame as the person using it. The store that sold Hassan the gun and all the ammunition asked Hassan what he planned to do with the weapon, Hassan gave no answer, but let's give him the gun anyway I suppose. He returned multiple times, week after week stockpiling ammo, and they kept giving it to him. You don't see anything wrong with that?

[DaveE 178]

Gotcha, I was there from 95-97, did the first year in the S3 with 3rd Sig, then finished out my last year working with the G6 in the III corps building under Gen Scharwtz(spelling), and before that General Paul Funk. Killeen made it so easy to buy a gun, I remember you could get a Desert Eagle from Action Pawn for about 700 bucks.

Now you go to the PX/BX and buy it over the counter.

[Ban Hammer 13,570]

The base has it's own police force. Plenty of firepower and extremely quick response times. Fact is, if Hassan did not have the semi-automatic with the large capacity magazines, the amount of deaths would have been much less, if he even attempted it at all.

yes, they do have their own police force. don't bet on the quick response time though, ft hood is a huge base.

When inanimate objects are produced for one sole purpose, then they will be used for that purpose. So yes, in a case like this, the inanimate object and the access to it, are just as much to blame as the person using it. The store that sold Hassan the gun and all the ammunition asked Hassan what he planned to do with the weapon, Hassan gave no answer, but let's give him the gun anyway I suppose. He returned multiple times, week after week stockpiling ammo, and they kept giving it to him. You don't see anything wrong with that?

why are stores required to ask? and why should he or anyone else answer?

[Teddy B 17,252]

yes, they do have their own police force. don't bet on the quick response time though, ft hood is a huge base.

By all accounts the Ft. Hood police response was flawless and they were on the sight within a few minutes.

What about Columbine, they had an armed sherriff on the school grounds and he engaged the shooters. Virginia Tech has it's own police force, that did no good either. Bottom line is that having armed personell on sight doesn't stop these incidents from happening. No matter how you want to slice it, it always comes down to one thing, the guns.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

The base has it's own police force. Plenty of firepower and extremely quick response times. Fact is, if Hassan did not have the semi-automatic with the large capacity magazines, the amount of deaths would have been much less, if he even attempted it at all.

When inanimate objects are produced for one sole purpose, then they will be used for that purpose. So yes, in a case like this, the inanimate object and the access to it, are just as much to blame as the person using it. The store that sold Hassan the gun and all the ammunition asked Hassan what he planned to do with the weapon, Hassan gave no answer, but let's give him the gun anyway I suppose. He returned multiple times, week after week stockpiling ammo, and they kept giving it to him. You don't see anything wrong with that?

It's none of anyone's damn business if I am or am not stockpiling ammo.

Again, for the constitutionally challenged, the intent of the second amendment is to protect the people from government. Under that idea, the government has zero reason to know who's packing what and who isn't.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

uh yes, it is:

link

The second quote is particularly weak. Last I checked, parents are responsible for the actions of their minor children. Now, we can argue about the age to which that extends fully but I believe that the responsibility for an 11 year old going to school with daddy's gun in his backpack is 100% on daddy and 0% on the kid. So, it's daddy - the lawful owner of the lawfully obtained firearm - the good, law-abiding gun owner as everyone would call him whose second amendment rights are to be respected above all else that all of a sudden isn't all that law abiding anymore. Is it the course of the law to seize his firearms and ban him from ever owning any in the future? Of course not. That could actually save lives. Who would want that?

As to the first quote - gun shows and internet firearms sales are legal venues that openly invite, foster and enable illegal gun trades. Everyone knows it and yet, nothing is done about it. Again, lives could be saved if we were to put away with these venues but we don't care to save lives.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Now you go to the PX/BX and buy it over the counter.

It wouldn't suprise me, Texas operates within it's own reality.

[DaveE 178]

It wouldn't suprise me, Texas operates within it's own reality.

Don't know about Texas, but my Air Force base has a gun counter, and the ones I work at in Utah, and Florida sell them also. Caveat - they are about sold out of everything since the panic buy started.

I would imagine Army posts have them also, since it is all part of AAFES.

[Teddy B 17,252]

It's none of anyone's damn business if I am or am not stockpiling ammo.

Hopefully that will change very soon.

Again, for the constitutionally challenged, the intent of the second amendment is to protect the people from government. Under that idea, the government has zero reason to know who's packing what and who isn't.

What part of the 2nd amendment allows the people to acquire whatever weapons they see fit?

Edited December 26, 2012 by Teddy B