4 firefighters shot, 2 dead, after responding to blaze

[lostinblue 1,989]

This is what is known of the crime.

The shooter murdered his grandmother because she was going to report him to the police for making LSD in her house. He thought he would get less time for murder than drugs. He pushed her down the stairs and beat her to death striking her 38 times in the head with a hammer.

He got out serving 17 years of a 25 year sentence.

A woman he had a crush on was told that when his mother died he would kill his sister.Woman thought it was a joke. Sister was afraid of him and always carried a .38 pistol on her. She hated her brother and had threatened to kill him. Sister has not yet been located. When the first fire truck arrived an off duty police officer was right behind them. He did engage the shooter. This was after shooter put two bullets into his car and killed and wounded 4 fire fighters. One bullet was put in the drivers windshield.This police officer backed his car and blocked the road to keep first responders fron entering the killing zone.He then took his rifle out of the trunk and tried to locate the killer. The killer did shoot himself.

[Bumbero 130]

This is what is known of the crime.

The shooter murdered his grandmother because she was going to report him to the police for making LSD in her house. He thought he would get less time for murder than drugs. He pushed her down the stairs and beat her to death striking her 38 times in the head with a hammer.

He got out serving 17 years of a 25 year sentence.

A woman he had a crush on was told that when his mother died he would kill his sister.Woman thought it was a joke. Sister was afraid of him and always carried a .38 pistol on her. She hated her brother and had threatened to kill him. Sister has not yet been located. When the first fire truck arrived an off duty police officer was right behind them. He did engage the shooter. This was after shooter put two bullets into his car and killed and wounded 4 fire fighters. One bullet was put in the drivers windshield.This police officer backed his car and blocked the road to keep first responders fron entering the killing zone.He then took his rifle out of the trunk and tried to locate the killer. The killer did shoot himself.

Yeah, he set up the trap for him. It's being reported the fire WAS intentional. Seven homes burned and I bet they find his sister in the debris.

"The 62-year-old convicted felon had apparently set a trap, luring in first responders and then firing on them from atop an earthen berm. "It does appear that it was a trap that was set," said Webster Police Chief Gerald Pickering, his voice breaking at times. People who get up in the middle of the night to fight fires, they dont expect to get shot and killed."

http://www.firefighterclosecalls.com/news/fullstory/newsid/177920

Just gives psychopaths who want to kill themselves another idea and event to try to top.

Edited December 25, 2012 by Bumbero

[TiklingGuy 211]

Generally, police are supposed to be first to the scene to establish whether a threat exists.

Depends on the caller. If the 911 dispatcher takes a call for a house fire then they dispatch the fire department. If they take a call for a medical complaint they dispatch an ambulance. It is the job of the responding agency to determine if a threat exists and if it does then we contact PD to come and secure the scene. Until the scene is safe any responding agency that is not PD will stage in a safe area and await until we are cleared to enter. I wish your statement was true, but that would require a police officer for every call whether it was police, fire or medical. Impossible.

[lostinblue 1,989]

The most important fact of this story is while a shooter lay in wait to slaughter unarmed firefighters.An off duty police officer (who just happened to be behind the fire trucks) returned fire and from that point on no one else was killed or injured.

A clear case for having an armed police officer in every school.

On a side note this is an animial who should have been hung in prison but liberal logic kept him alive and back on the streets to kill again. ACLU should be proud on this christmas day.

[Teddy B 17,252]

The most important fact of this story is while a shooter lay in wait to slaughter unarmed firefighters.An off duty police officer (who just happened to be behind the fire trucks) returned fire and from that point on no one else was killed or injured.

A clear case for having an armed police officer in every school.On a side note this is an animial who should have been hung in prison but liberal logic kept him alive and back on the streets to kill again. ACLU should be proud on this christmas day.

There was an armed Sherrif's deputy in the school during the Columbine massacre, he shot and missed four times, how'd that turn out? Virginia Tech, the site of the deadliest shooting in US history has it's own police force, what's the excuse there?. And let's not forget the mass killing at the Fort Hood Military base, 13 dead, 29 wounded. Guess there weren't enough guns there either.

Anything but the guns!

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

People who legally obtained guns that really shouldn't have been able to,= blackmarket or Fast and Furious ( take your pick )

Odd that you foget to mention the most obvious paths - internet sales or gun shows are much more likely candidates on how a person that can't pass theoretically required background checks obtains any amount of firearms they wish to obtain. No dark back alley deals required.

people who obtained guns due to the legal owners irresponsible behavior in failing to secure their firearms = burglary is a criminal act also.

Did Adam Lanza commit buglary to get his hands on the weapons with which he killed the kids and teachers at that school? Nope.

Did that 11 year old boy that brought a firearm to school following the mass murder at Sandy Hook commit burglary to get his hands on that firearm? Of course not.

Reality is a b!tch, ain't it?

Edited December 26, 2012 by Mr. Big Dog

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

We need to arm all firefighters and place an armed guard on every street corner. If everyone carried at least 1 3 concealed handguns, we could stop these tragedies from happening. More guns are the answer.

Bingo. Going forward, firfighters must delay their response until armed guards have secured the site. Firefighters will forthwith be known as second responders.

[Dakine10 5,452]

Bingo. Going forward, firfighters must delay their response until armed guards have secured the site. Firefighters will forthwith be known as second responders.

It may come to that. Hopefully they correlate that response with the list that published the names and residences of gun permit owners.

Since most of these incidents are being traced back to legal guns owned by irresponsible owners, it makes sense to treat that threat accordingly.

[Ban Hammer 13,337]

And let's not forget the mass killing at the Fort Hood Military base, 13 dead, 29 wounded. Guess there weren't enough guns there either.

except for the following facts 1 - military personnel, with few exceptions, aren't able to carry ammo on them and 2 - military personnel, with few exceptions, aren't able to carry firearms loaded either.

the only certain exception would be military police, or perhaps personnel performing gate guard functions. the few times military personnel would have a loaded firearm at fort hood is at the range - the event you referenced happened in garrison.

in my 20 year career, of which about 9 years of it was spent at ft hood - i never saw or heard of anyone having a loaded firearm in garrison.

[Ban Hammer 13,337]

Did Adam Lanza commit buglary to get his hands on the weapons with which he killed the kids and teachers at that school? Nope.

Did that 11 year old boy that brought a firearm to school following the mass murder at Sandy Hook commit burglary to get his hands on that firearm? Of course not.

Reality is a b!tch, ain't it?

uh yes, it is:

(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer to a person who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe is a juvenile—

(A) a handgun; or

(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.

(2) It shall be unlawful for any person who is a juvenile to knowingly possess—

(A) a handgun; or

link

[Teddy B 17,252]

except for the following facts 1 - military personnel, with few exceptions, aren't able to carry ammo on them and 2 - military personnel, with few exceptions, aren't able to carry firearms loaded either.

the only certain exception would be military police, or perhaps personnel performing gate guard functions. the few times military personnel would have a loaded firearm at fort hood is at the range - the event you referenced happened in garrison.

in my 20 year career, of which about 9 years of it was spent at ft hood - i never saw or heard of anyone having a loaded firearm in garrison.

Military police were at the scene within minutes and exchanged fire with Hassan, still not able to bring him down. His weapon was not military issue, it was a privately purchased semi automatic handgun with multiple large capacity (20 to 30 round)magazines. Why is anyone allowed to purchase these weapons? Their only purpose is to kill and based on evidence they get the job done. Over 240 spent shell casings were found at the scene and Hassan had over 170 unfired rounds still on him when he was brought down. Completey ridiculous that anyone would be allowed to purchase this type of weapon.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

except for the following facts 1 - military personnel, with few exceptions, aren't able to carry ammo on them and 2 - military personnel, with few exceptions, aren't able to carry firearms loaded either.

the only certain exception would be military police, or perhaps personnel performing gate guard functions. the few times military personnel would have a loaded firearm at fort hood is at the range - the event you referenced happened in garrison.

in my 20 year career, of which about 9 years of it was spent at ft hood - i never saw or heard of anyone having a loaded firearm in garrison.

Hey Charles, when were you in Fort Hood? I did 2 years there at 3rd Sig Brigade.

If my memory serves correctly, you can have a weapon on base but it would have to be kept in the base armory. He is right about not being able to carry ammo, the first time we had guard duty with the M16, you would have to make a call to the NCOIC first, then they would have to make a call to the CC before you could even touch rounds. Glad no one rushed the gate, I would have to beat them with the butt of my rifle.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Su and Marvin

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Military police were at the scene within minutes and exchanged fire with Hassan, still not able to bring him down. His weapon was not military issue, it was a privately purchased semi automatic handgun with multiple large capacity (20 to 30 round)magazines. Why is anyone allowed to purchase these weapons? Their only purpose is to kill and based on evidence they get the job done. Over 240 spent shell casings were found at the scene and Hassan had over 170 unfired rounds still on him when he was brought down. Completey ridiculous that anyone would be allowed to purchase this type of weapon.

What if he had 10 round clips? So he switches out clips that takes all of two seconds if that.

[Teddy B 17,252]

What if he had 10 round clips? So he switches out clips that takes all of two seconds if that.

He shouldn't be allowed to purchase a semi-automatic weapon, period.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Teddy B

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

He shouldn't be allowed to purchase a semi-automatic weapon, period.

Why