NRA Leader Wayne LaPierre's Much-Criticized Sandy Hook Speech Was Actually Quite Effective

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/top.php?indexType=i

LOBBYING Top Industries 1998 - 2012

#1 Big Pharma $2,501,745,267

http://corporateeurope.org/pressreleases/2012/big-pharma-spends-over-40-million-year-lobbying-eu-dwarfing-public-health-ngos

Big Pharma spends over €40 million per year lobbying in the EU, dwarfing public health NGOs

http://www.jsonline.com/features/health/doctors-with-links-to-drug-companies-influence-treatment-guidelines-ki7pjr6-184041791.html

Doctors with links to drug companies influence treatment guidelines

http://www.bostonreview.net/BR35.3/angell.php

Big Pharma, Bad Medicine

How corporate dollars corrupt research and education

http://www.drugwatch.com/2012/01/19/influence-of-big-pharma/

The Influence of Big Pharma in America

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/03/business/03medschool.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Harvard Medical School in Ethics Quandary

http://www.southcoasttoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20121202/NEWS02/212020338

As drug industry's influence over research grows, so does potential for bias

[Jericho 28]

I'm sorry if I have neglected to read previous posts in this thread, but the problem as I see it is that second amendment rights advocates don't seem to have any understanding of the initial intent of the amendment itself. Perhaps you should actually study the scholars that authored the amendment as well as the context of society at the time it was issued.

Wayne LaPierre's statement that the only thing to counter a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun is ignorant and counter to logical thought. Maybe if his drive was not to increase the revenues of the NRA he might be taken seriously, but to blame video game and television violence for the recent shootings is disingenuous at best, reckless and blatant at worst.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

And the good medical doctors af the American Medical Association appreciate their support!

I am sure they would but in this case I am talking about the American Motorcycle Association - the largest motorcycle association in the nation and the most powerful motorcycling lobbyist group. I figured since I put Motorcycle it would be obvious, guess not . :rofl:

[himher 634]

Perhaps you should get your head out of your #### and read what the authors said yourself.

"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!"

Adolph Hitler

Chancellor, Germany, 1933

"Our main agenda is to have all guns banned. We must use whatever means possible. It doesn't matter if you have to distort the facts or even lie. Our task of creating a socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed."

Sara Brady

Chairman, Handgun Control Inc, to Senator Howard Metzenbaum

The National Educator, January 1994, Page 3.

Our founders:

They were not stupid men. They could pass a budget. They did not pay off their electorate. They could walk freely among people who were not only armed but required in some states to own arms. They were nothing like the lot who is elected today to "represent" us.

"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."

George Mason

Co-author of the Second Amendment

during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788

"A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves …"

Richard Henry Lee

writing in Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republic, Letter XVIII, May, 1788.

And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; …"

Samuel Adams

Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."

George Washington

First President of the United States

"Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?"

Patrick Henry

"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."

Thomas Jefferson

"The constitution of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that … it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; … "

Thomas Jefferson

"The greatest danger to American freedom is a government that ignores the Constitution."

Thomas Jefferson

I'm sorry if I have neglected to read previous posts in this thread, but the problem as I see it is that second amendment rights advocates don't seem to have any understanding of the initial intent of the amendment itself. Perhaps you should actually study the scholars that authored the amendment as well as the context of society at the time it was issued.

Wayne LaPierre's statement that the only thing to counter a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun is ignorant and counter to logical thought. Maybe if his drive was not to increase the revenues of the NRA he might be taken seriously, but to blame video game and television violence for the recent shootings is disingenuous at best, reckless and blatant at worst.

Edited December 27, 2012 by himher

[himher 634]

Dude the annual membership is $25. There are 4 million (well just over 4 million members but I estimated a bit low)

Back when I was in school we had to, unlike today, be able to do basic math in order to get through to the next class. I will leave you to do the math yourself.

Source?

[himher 634]

Most of the lobbying is done by personal calls to congressmen and at the voting booths sport. Game? It's not a game. Every few years someone comes along with a new and better sale on how or why Americans should be disarmed. If you think it is lobbying that keeps the second ammendment rights in place then throw an ammendment in front of congress, get it out to the states, and watch what happens.

The gun manufacturers are not the ones who are arming themselves left and right over the last 4 years (and the last couple of months, I've never seen anything like it). Those wallets are being opened by your fellow citizens.

The people who authored the second ammendment did all the lobbying that needed to be done.

Send all your money to them. Every dime of it. And then turn around and see what I care.

Fact is that membership fees are not paying for the lobbying. Gun manufacturers are. You guys are props in the game. That's all.

Edited December 27, 2012 by himher

[himher 634]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-29/nra-raises-200-million-as-gun-lobby-toasters-burn-logo-on-bread.html

Yeah. $14 million from all the gun manufacturers combined.

Drop in the bucket dude.

Compare that to the billion or so that individual Americans put into the gun manufacturers pockets over the last 2 weeks. Who's supporting who?

So membership fees account for less than half of the take - 100MM out of 230MM. That same $100MM also goes back into the membership leaving the lobbying expenses to be picked up by someone else. The gun manufacturers.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Dude the annual membership is $25. There are 4 million (well just over 4 million members but I estimated a bit low)

Back when I was in school we had to, unlike today, be able to do basic math in order to get through to the next class. I will leave you to do the math yourself.

You act like a normal person would -(removed) - what the annual NRA membership fee is.

Edited December 31, 2012 by Kathryn41
edited to remove profanity

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Most of the lobbying is done by personal calls to congressmen and at the voting booths sport. Game? It's not a game.

Of course it is a game. You're just a prop in that game so naturally you wouldn't notice. Riddle me this: If the NRA is indeed representing their membership as you claim then why is the NRA so out of touch with that membership opposing many common sense gun control measures that the membership largely supports? Odd, ain't it?

Funny thing is, you actually figured it out right here. Well, almost. You have yet to draw the conclusion from what you say right here.

The gun manufacturers are not the ones who are arming themselves left and right over the last 4 years (and the last couple of months, I've never seen anything like it). Those wallets are being opened by your fellow citizens.

Here, I'll help you: The gun manufacturers, via their propaganda machine a.k.a. the NRA, scare nutters into believing that they need more guns now. Nutters open their wallets and the gun manufacturers cash in on the very panic they created with the help of their propaganda machine. And they can do it all again tomorrow and the nutters will fall all over themselves again thinking they are sitting in the driver seat while actually, they are being taken for a ride.

Edited December 27, 2012 by Mr. Big Dog

[himher 634]

Of course it is a game. You're just a prop in that game so naturally you wouldn't notice. Riddle me this: If the NRA is indeed representing their membership as you claim then why is the NRA so out of touch with that membership opposing many common sense gun control measures that the membership largely supports? Odd, ain't it?

Source? From not knowing what the membership dues are (they are published so I assumed, wrongly as it turns out, that you had taken the time to go and look into what you are talking about) you now know what the membership believes and are saying?

I only know this - the rank and file down here in Texas got busy before and not after the NRA held their press conference. It is you, and not us, who is a pawn in a high stakes game.

Funny thing is, you actually figured it out right here. Well, almost. You have yet to draw the conclusion from what you say right here.

Here, I'll help you: The gun manufacturers, via their propaganda machine a.k.a. the NRA, scare nutters into believing that they need more guns now. Nutters open their wallets and the gun manufacturers cash in on the very panic they created with the help of their propaganda machine. And they can do it all again tomorrow and the nutters will fall all over themselves again thinking they are sitting in the driver seat while actually, they are being taken for a ride.

Where are the scare tactics? Show me, over the last two weeks, some propaganda from the gun manufacturers from anywhere. I'll just sit back and wait for you to find it and bring it. At least it will offer the illusion that you know what you are talking about. I can see that your "lobby" theory seems to have dissipated though. That's a start.

Edited December 27, 2012 by himher

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Source? From not knowing what the membership dues are (they are published so I assumed, wrongly as it turns out, that you had taken the time to go and look into what you are talking about) you now know what the membership believes and are saying?

I thought - wrongly as it turned out - that you would have looked that source up real quick or better yet, that would have been aware of the survey Republican pollster Frank Luntz conducted among gun owners - both NRA members and non-NRA members - earlier this year. You know, just so you would know what you are actually talking about. See, unlike the membership dues for the NRA which nobody gives a rats ####### about, this research was actually widely reported in the media following the massacres in Colorado and at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, CT.

The poll found both NRA members and gun owners strongly supported mandatory criminal background checks for anyone purchasing a gun and support requiring gun owners to report lost or stolen guns to the police.

Among the survey’s key findings:

87 percent of NRA members agree that support for Second Amendment rights goes hand-in-hand with keeping guns out of the hands of criminals.

There is very strong support for criminal background checks among NRA members and gun owners:

• 74 percent of NRA members and 87 percent of non-NRA gun owners support requiring criminal background checks of anyone purchasing a gun.
  
• 79 percent of NRA members and 80 percent of non-NRA gun owners support requiring gun retailers to perform background checks on all employees – a measure recently endorsed by the National Shooting Sports Foundation, the trade association for the firearms industry.

NRA members strongly support allowing states – not the Federal government – to set basic eligibility requirements for people who want to carry concealed, loaded guns in public places, with 91 percent of NRA members stating states should decide.

By contrast, the NRA leadership’s top Federal legislative priority – national reciprocity for concealed carry permits – would effectively eliminate these requirements by forcing every state to allow non-residents to carry concealed guns even if they would not qualify for a local permit.

NRA members support many common state eligibility rules for concealed carrying:

• 75 percent of NRA members believe concealed carry permits should only be granted to applicants who have not committed any violent misdemeanors, including assault.
  
• 74 percent of NRA members believe permits should only be granted to applicants who have completed gun safety training.
  
• 68 percent of NRA members believe permits should only be granted to applicants who do not have prior arrests for domestic violence.
  
• 63 percent of NRA members believe permits should only be granted to applicants 21 years of age or older.

The NRA rank and file also supports barring people on terror watch lists from buying guns (71 percent) and believe the law should require gun owners to alert police to lost and stolen guns (64 percent). The NRA’s Washington office strongly opposes both measures.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Where are the scare tactics?

Why is everybody scared? What explains this run on guns and ammo if not some angst that they won't be available tomorrow or next week or next month? Why the run on guns when Obama was first elected President and why another run on guns following his re-election even though his re-election was no rational reason to believe that he would make a move on gun control - he hasn't during his first term. So, there's no reason to be scared and yet, all the the gun nuts are scared? Who scared them?

6 days ago:

Nov 7, 2012: Gun Confiscation Next on Obama List?

This kind of nonsense:

Or this bullshite:

Obama's Coming Gun Control: Through the UN

The right wing echo chamber is full of this #######. And it has been for years now. For no reason at all. Then you gotta ask yourself this question: Who benefits? Who cashes in? And the answer to that question is: The gun industry - manufacturers, distributors, retailers. They're benefitting from the scare they create and then they laugh all the way to the bank.

[Ban Hammer 13,469]

The right wing echo chamber is full of this #######. And it has been for years now. For no reason at all. Then you gotta ask yourself this question: Who benefits? Who cashes in? And the answer to that question is: The gun industry - manufacturers, distributors, retailers. They're benefitting from the scare they create and then they laugh all the way to the bank.

call it another stimulus plan

[Karee 4,191]

Why is everybody scared? What explains this run on guns and ammo if not some angst that they won't be available tomorrow or next week or next month? Why the run on guns when Obama was first elected President and why another run on guns following his re-election even though his re-election was no rational reason to believe that he would make a move on gun control - he hasn't during his first term. So, there's no reason to be scared and yet, all the the gun nuts are scared? Who scared them?

That's easy. He's not up for re-election in 2016.

[DaveE 178]

This is why: From Feinsteins web site:

Summary of 2013 legislation

Following is a summary of the 2013 legislation:

Bans the sale, transfer, importation, or manufacturing of:

120 specifically-named firearms

Certain other semiautomatic rifles, handguns, shotguns that can accept a detachable magazine and have one military characteristic

Semiautomatic rifles and handguns with a fixed magazine that can accept more than 10 roundsStrengthens the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban and various state bans by:

Moving from a 2-characteristic test to a 1-characteristic test

Eliminating the easy-to-remove bayonet mounts and flash suppressors from the characteristics test

Banning firearms with thumbhole stocks and bullet buttons to address attempts to work around prior bans

Bans large-capacity ammunition feeding devices capable of accepting more than 10 rounds.

Protects legitimate hunters and the rights of existing gun owners by:

Grandfathering weapons legally possessed on the date of enactment Except - see below!!!

Exempting over 900 specifically-named weapons used for hunting or sporting purposes and

Exempting antique, manually-operated, and permanently disabled weapons

Requires that grandfathered weapons be registered under the National Firearms Act, to include:

Background check of owner and any transferee;

Type and serial number of the firearm;

Positive identification, including photograph and fingerprint;

Certification from local law enforcement of identity and that possession would not violate State or local law; and

Dedicated funding for ATF to implement registration

Feinstein

Edited December 27, 2012 by DaveE