Concealed Carry permit holders live in a dream world

[Ban Hammer 13,340]

yes, this shows it didn't work out as planned.

yes, let's take people without practice, familiarity, put gloves on them, and then watch them muck it up.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

yes, this shows it didn't work out as planned.

yes, let's take people without practice, familiarity, put gloves on them, and then watch them muck it up.

What the research shows (backed by weapons experts) is that it requires extensive and continuous training - the level of training that law enforcement and military use, and even then, the chances are slim that a person with a CCW would be able to successfully stop the perpetrator in that scenario. That's reality. I have consistently been supportive of those who wish to carry a handgun for self defense, but I've also stated time and again, that for most of the time, in most situations, there are far more effective methods in either defending yourself or reducing the chances of being in such a situation. This Wild West notion that a gun gives some peace of mind against any potential threat is mostly fantasy.

[Ban Hammer 13,340]

What the research shows (backed by weapons experts) is that it requires extensive and continuous training - the level of training that law enforcement and military use, and even then, the chances are slim that a person with a CCW would be able to successfully stop the perpetrator in that scenario. That's reality. I have consistently been supportive of those who wish to carry a handgun for self defense, but I've also stated time and again, that for most of the time, in most situations, there are far more effective methods in either defending yourself or reducing the chances of being in such a situation. This Wild West notion that a gun gives some peace of mind against any potential threat is mostly fantasy.

so what? i'd be willing to bet that just about every gun owner on this site would fail too, due to the gloves.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

so what? i'd be willing to bet that just about every gun owner on this site would fail too, due to the gloves.

Not the gloves. Damn them gloves.

[Ban Hammer 13,340]

Not the gloves. Damn them gloves.

the times i had to fire a m-16 in the army - kinda sucked cause of the gloves due to the cold.

and yes, gloves do make it harder to deal with a pistol than a rifle.

[justashooter 430]

ok, so i actually watched this #######, and can comment that it is not surprising when untrained young people wearing helmets and gloves and long tee shirts covering guns carried in LEVEL 2 retention holsters (nobody but cops use these) fail to beat trained police shooting instructors in a simulated competition.

i don't know anybody that carries for personal protection in gloves and a full face helmet. i don't know anybody other than police officers that use level 2 retention holsters. i don't know anybody that has had to shoot it out with trained police shooting instructors.

i usually carry a 45 1911 pattern in "mexican carry" with a tucked in shirt under a light jacket, and can draw and fire in drill and simulation in under a half second. an indiscriminate shooter walking into a room full of people won't even have time to identify me before he hits the floor after being COM with a 230 grain hardball.

recent news stories are plenty of evidence that non law enforcement types can make a difference in the seconds that count, while police are just minutes away.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/teen-charged-in-death-of-robbery-accomplice-by-intended-victim-vl7cba9-176048841.html

i do know lots of people that train in combat simulation shooting such as IPSC.

[Harsh_77 718]

What the research shows (backed by weapons experts) is that it requires extensive and continuous training - the level of training that law enforcement and military use, and even then, the chances are slim that a person with a CCW would be able to successfully stop the perpetrator in that scenario. That's reality. I have consistently been supportive of those who wish to carry a handgun for self defense, but I've also stated time and again, that for most of the time, in most situations, there are far more effective methods in either defending yourself or reducing the chances of being in such a situation. This Wild West notion that a gun gives some peace of mind against any potential threat is mostly fantasy.

There has been cases recently where a lady stopped burglars from robbing her store another incident where grandpa saved lives of ppl in internet café when armed robbers tried to rob the café.

There was another case where a young girl has just returned from school and she heard someone break into her home, she took the gun they had in house hid in the closet and shot the burglar in self protection. Do you think without the gun she would had been able to protect herself from a burglar?

Unfortunately those incidents do not get as much as the media attention as the mass shooting does.

So saying CCW does not work is not correct either… just coz someone on one video of failed CCW does not mean all CCW holder are as bad as that.

Last two incidents shooting at mall and school, ppl who were shooter were not the rightful owner in first place.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

There has been cases recently where a lady stopped burglars from robbing her store another incident where grandpa saved lives of ppl in internet café when armed robbers tried to rob the café.

There was another case where a young girl has just returned from school and she heard someone break into her home, she took the gun they had in house hid in the closet and shot the burglar in self protection. Do you think without the gun she would had been able to protect herself from a burglar?

Unfortunately those incidents do not get as much as the media attention as the mass shooting does.

So saying CCW does not work is not correct either… just coz someone on one video of failed CCW does not mean all CCW holder are as bad as that.

Last two incidents shooting at mall and school, ppl who were shooter were not the rightful owner in first place.

http://www.adn.com/2011/11/10/2163898/police-say-two-dead-in-apparent.html#storylink=misearch

2 teens shot to death in suspected home robbery

POLICE: Intruders tried to force occupant to open safe; he got gun and fired.

"Responding officers learned that two males entered James' home, at least one of whom was armed with a handgun, and assaulted him, injuring his face," Parker's statement said. "They forced James to his room to open his safe but James produced a handgun and fired shots at the intruders."

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

The controlled study documented in these videos show that concealed carry permit holders are fooling themselves if they think they will be able to react effectively to armed aggressors. Most CCW holders won't even be able to un-holster their gun. They will more likely be killed themselves or kill innocent bystanders than stop the aggressor.

For more details, see "Unintended Consequences: Pro-Handgun Experts Prove That Handguns Are a Dangerous Choice for Self-Defense." http://www.vpc.org/s...es/unincont.htm.

CCW permit holders don't protect innocent people. They kill them.

Right. So we should all be allowed to carry guns without permits like in Vermont.

I will let the criminal take the chance that I am more dangerous to myself and allow you to go unarmed and feel safe.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Right. So we should all be allowed to carry guns without permits like in Vermont.

I will let the criminal take the chance that I am more dangerous to myself and allow you to go unarmed and feel safe.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

This is a bit harsh, but to the point and I'm posting it here because it is relevant to the discussion of gun safety vs. the right of self defense. Those two ideas are not mutually exclusive. We can have laws that make gun ownership safer without compromising people's right to defend themselves.

Why is that harsh? That woman bears a great deal of responsibility for the death of 26 innocent people, 20 of them little children 6 to 7 years of age. Her irresponsible behavior is what granted the sicko access to the murder weapons. I have no sympathy fer her.

[Harsh_77 718]

Why is that harsh? That woman bears a great deal of responsibility for the death of 26 innocent people, 20 of them little children 6 to 7 years of age. Her irresponsible behavior is what granted the sicko access to the murder weapons. I have no sympathy fer her.

This would be something I would agree with Big Dog, unfortunately her mother passed away in this carnage but she is responsible for the incident.

One of the report says she was the one who introduced Adam to guns assuming that would make him more responsible. As per the family friend her mother did try to keep the mental issues of Adam under lid.

Edited December 17, 2012 by Harsh_77

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

ok, so i actually watched this #######, and can comment that it is not surprising when untrained young people wearing helmets and gloves and long tee shirts covering guns carried in LEVEL 2 retention holsters (nobody but cops use these) fail to beat trained police shooting instructors in a simulated competition.

i don't know anybody that carries for personal protection in gloves and a full face helmet. i don't know anybody other than police officers that use level 2 retention holsters. i don't know anybody that has had to shoot it out with trained police shooting instructors.

i usually carry a 45 1911 pattern in "mexican carry" with a tucked in shirt under a light jacket, and can draw and fire in drill and simulation in under a half second. an indiscriminate shooter walking into a room full of people won't even have time to identify me before he hits the floor after being COM with a 230 grain hardball.

recent news stories are plenty of evidence that non law enforcement types can make a difference in the seconds that count, while police are just minutes away.

http://www.jsonline....-176048841.html

i do know lots of people that train in combat simulation shooting such as IPSC.

You must be a hoot on a date.

[lostinblue 1,989]

What the research shows (backed by weapons experts) is that it requires extensive and continuous training - the level of training that law enforcement and military use, and even then, the chances are slim that a person with a CCW would be able to successfully stop the perpetrator in that scenario. That's reality. I have consistently been supportive of those who wish to carry a handgun for self defense, but I've also stated time and again, that for most of the time, in most situations, there are far more effective methods in either defending yourself or reducing the chances of being in such a situation. This Wild West notion that a gun gives some peace of mind against any potential threat is mostly fantasy.

reducing the chances of being in such a situation.....Stay away from gun free zones.

we need to stop this feel good frame of mind and start locking up these people on psychotic drugs away in the hospitals again. Just give them the blue pill is not working out.The vast majority of mass killers are on these drugs and under professional care.

[hellINTIM 9]

Funny, no mention of kills. How many kills do you have and in what situations?

Iraq, Afghan. wahahahahahha :dance: