NEWTOWN, CONNECTICUT SCHOOLS IN LOCKDOWN AFTER SHOOTING AT ELEMENTARY SCHOOL

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

People not fit to handle firearms having easy and ready access to firearms. That's the root cause.

This DOES seem to be the root cause of this massacre.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Exactly ! When I was a network Admin the first question we always asked, when a system problem occurred was... What has changed ??

Obviously in this case the Gun part has no changed. It's fairly basic very obvious logic.

Fairly basic and very obvious logic would suggest that "the gun part" as you would call it must change to accommodate the obvious changes that have undeniably occurred in our society. Keeping something constant in a changing environment changes the impact of that something.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

This DOES seem to be the root cause of this massacre.

This and every other massacre that has occurred. No sane person does any such thing. Period.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

This and every other massacre that has occurred. No sane person does any such thing. Period.

No, I agree 100%

[PMartin37 161]

Okay, more details.

The firearms were the mother's. If he had a known mental illness, she may have broken the law by not securing the firearms if he lived with her.

(This may just be a California law, not Federal)

I just heard that as well. When I saw that the two handguns used were a glock and sig sauer, one has to wonder what a kindergarten teacher would want with those? Sounds like she might have been an enabler. Not sure if this is corrrect but I also "heard around" that he was a druggie (maybe he couldn't pass a background check?)

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

My assessment of US gun violence is as follows:

There are three divisions of gun violence.

1. Gang violence, and violence related to drug and sex trafficking - this is probably half of all such crimes

2. Violence through relationships, i.e. domestic violence etc.

3. Mental Health violence - rare but often there are warning signs that go unheeded.

When you jump to another nation with gun ownership similar to ours like say Switzerland, 1 and 3 are typically missing or much lower.

This current situation is a bit unique because it appears to be both 2 & 3 where as Portland and Aurora are likely 3. In fact, I question whether James Holmes cried for help prior to his attack but was partially ignored.

There were 14,000 victims of homicide last year. Mass shootings seem to get more attention.

I'm with you on this but there is a larger issue that is a societal ill that these seem to be stemming from and is often being overlooked. It's part of what the occupy movement has been about. It's part of what the recession, the recovery and the fiscal cliff is all about. One of my friends is a double doctorate in psychology and criminal justice. I think she may even be on this website because I told her about it, since she's going through the visa process, but I don't think she frequent's it much. She posted this piece recently on her fb about Poverty's Psychic Cost and I think she has a point.

The gap has widened between the rich and the poor. More people fell into poverty than ever before with this last recession. It used to be in the 1950's there was a prospering middle class and their boss lived on the same block as them and didn't make much more than them. People are becoming economic refugees. They're one paycheck away from becoming homeless themselves and setting up camp in a tent city, which is criminalized by city councils across the nation. Nobody want's to be homeless. Maybe there is a small percentage that prefer it but the single mothers, the single fathers, the veterans of war, the senior citizens, the youth who maybe partied too much and made some bad choices because they were sold a lie that you should do it while you're young and everything's going to be alright, they all don't want to be homeless. They're trying everyday to get that job. To find work. To have a better quality of life and the jobs just aren't there for many people. The homeless shelters are full and most often there is no place for people to go but the streets. Maybe they have no friends or family or they've burnt all those bridges and people have become less forgiving in today's society. Self absorbed and feel entitled living under this illusion that the more material things they have the better off they are when really many of them are drowning in debt and possibly the simple life would have done them better off. The youth coming of age are raised to believe they're better than they are. That they're all special and mediocrity is routinely rewarded because we don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. See: College Graduates are in for a rude awakening They're getting out of school only to discover minimum wage jobs for college degrees and if you have less than that well life looks even more bleak than for those that believe they have some hope for opportunity because of their higher education. When really you start to wake up that it's a lie and maybe 5-10% really are exceptional.

In the meantime the world around us is globalizing and that's a fact. Jobs in our country are being sent to foreign countries because the current business model is that those who are willing to do more for less pay get the job. So the American people are being sold out and more jobs are created that pay a lower wage and while they don't want to accept that it's what they have to settle for. Motivation and innovation are lacking and leave them feeling powerless. Instead of having given to them what they were raised to feel entitled to they are being slapped in the face with cold stark reality and people don't like that. Meanwhile the prices are going up and people's necks are being squeezed and what is that doing to our fragile self esteem and confidence when no one, not even ourselves, are standing up for ourselves and demanding our rights as they're being stripped away. While others, who are perhaps not as educated, are being sold hook line and sinker that the rich are entitled to what they have stolen from them because they worked hard for it. They can't see the reality. The people of Iceland put the thieving bankers in jail and bailed out the people when they came to a financial crisis. Ours bailed out the bankers and won't even do an inquiry into their thieving practices and corruption because the Congress and the Senate have had the same people in control running the country for decades because their is no term limit on them like there is on the face they put in front of the world like the President. And what has the President done? They voted for him because they believed he would help the people and he helped the rich and bankers and the corporations instead. They felt betrayed but what could the possibly do when faced with an entire party that says stupid stuff like a woman who is raped will shut down and not permit the rape, and you can't get pregnant from rape. Really? That cost them big. Then they saw the tea party wasn't working either and their illusion was lost to them so they swept them out of office too. Now we're all left with a President who walks the middle and won't be like FDR , Lincoln or JFK and stand up for what best for the American people and take matters into his own hands, because it's within his right to do so, and utilize his executive powers when there is nothing left for him to lose because the majority is behind him. Unless that 2% really is all that more powerful? There is one thing he could lose that may be holding him back and towing the line. It's the ultimate sacrifice to put it on the line like that but I think he's already broken barriers and crossed boundaries no President before him has done so why flounder in a second term? If he really believes it if for the good of the future of this country he won't give in. He'll call their bluff. He'll make the US better, and for that the world better, while others go kicking and screaming along with socialized medicine to take care of all the people and tax the rich while giving to the poor.

People are right in that guns have always been here. My friend keeps saying with every gun massacre:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

NEVER INTENDED for common citizens to be able to carry semi automatic weapons and handguns. Was written in 1791 when we had no organized military for this country as a whole and every citizen defended the sovereignty of the nation. NEVER INTENDED for common citizens to defend themselves against each other, but from outside invading forces!!!!

While they have a point others have a point too in that if you take away guns people will just use other methods. Explosives are commonly used in the Middle East where the guns are absent. So it would make more sense to look at the causes and treat the societal ill and not the method at which the acts of violence occur. Help the people as a whole instead of the few that have it all at the expense of those that have so little.

God bless the 20 fallen angels today and their 6 guardian angels that went with them.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

When I saw that the two handguns used were a glock and sig sauer, one has to wonder what a kindergarten teacher would want with those?

What's it matter in a country where her right to have them is more important than the answer to your question? In a country where her right to have these guns is more important than the right of these 20 innocent children to live? It matters none. This nation laid down at the altar of the right to bear arms 20 beautiful, innocent young children today. And we won't even be talking about it anymore in a week or so. That's the sad truth of it all.

Edited December 15, 2012 by Mr. Big Dog

[spookyturtle 9,466]

You made some good points, but going back to when I was a kid, there was basically almost no mental health care and ZERO gun control, but yet we had none of this.. What has changed. I don't claim to have an answer. However if it were strictly Mental health care and Guns this kind of thing would have been the norm back in the 60's and 70's

Guns were much easier to buy back in the 60's and these mass shootings rarely happened. I also watched The Three Stooges growing up and never hit anyone in the head with a sledge hammer or poked them in the eye. Something is different besides the guns.

[Harsh_77 718]

I just heard that as well. When I saw that the two handguns used were a glock and sig sauer, one has to wonder what a kindergarten teacher would want with those? Sounds like she might have been an enabler. Not sure if this is corrrect but I also "heard around" that he was a druggie (maybe he couldn't pass a background check?)

Lot of the teacher have been wanting to conceal carry at school, where they can act as the first responders.

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

You made some good points, but going back to when I was a kid, there was basically almost no mental health care and ZERO gun control, but yet we had none of this.. What has changed. I don't claim to have an answer. However if it were strictly Mental health care and Guns this kind of thing would have been the norm back in the 60's and 70's

Actually, it was the abolition of the large mental institutions in the 60s and 70s which allowed for the large-scale introduction into mainstream society of people who otherwise would have been in those institutions. The care in those places was often inhumane and abysmal, but we had fewer mentally unwell people on the streets and kept at home back then. The reason why there seem to be so many nutters out there these days? In the past, they would have been locked away. I am not calling for mass reinstitutionalisation of the mentally ill, but I don't think abolition was the key otherwise.

There was quite a lot of mental health care in this country available in years past. The rich have been able to avail themselves of help since the introduction and acceptance of psychotherapy in this country. The poor and socially undesirable often had it foisted on them without their consent.

[PMartin37 161]

What's it matter in a country where her right to have them is more important than the answer to your question? In a country where her right to have these guns is more important than the right of these 20 innocent children to live? It matters none. This nation laid down at the altar of the right to bear arms 20 beautiful, innocent young children today. And we won't even be talking about it anymore in a week or so. That's the sad truth of it all.

I'm afraid I have to agree. As usual we are on the same page although you express your thoughts more precisely than I do (with just the right smattering of sarcasm too I might add haha). I just popped in to see if there was any change in discussion since the LAST recent massacre and this topic emerged. Now there are sweet, innocent kindergarteners so I thought perhaps that would be less bearable for some of the NRA lovin' folks to bear. NOPE! Same old arguments here.

I can't decide which is more sad...the tragedy of what has happened to these children and their families....or the tragedy that people are STILL not willing to even entertain a discussion to prevent these tragedies- but instead immediately respond to threats against THEIR rights.

Reminds me of the same mentality as drunks that stumble out of their vehicles harking about their rights after they've caused a fatal car accident.

[Harsh_77 718]

I'm afraid I have to agree. As usual we are on the same page although you express your thoughts more precisely than I do (with just the right smattering of sarcasm too I might add haha). I just popped in to see if there was any change in discussion since the LAST recent massacre and this topic emerged. Now there are sweet, innocent kindergarteners so I thought perhaps that would be less bearable for some of the NRA lovin' folks to bear. NOPE! Same old arguments here.

I can't decide which is more sad...the tragedy of what has happened to these children and their families....or the tragedy that people are STILL not willing to even entertain a discussion to prevent these tragedies- but instead immediately respond to threats against THEIR rights.

Reminds me of the same mentality as drunks that stumble out of their vehicles harking about their rights after they've caused a fatal car accident.

How were you expecting any change there are some ppl who just don't want civilians to own weapon (thats their ideology) and there are rest who don't agree with these ppl that weapons should be completely banned.

People who want to ban guns think that by doing that they would solve the root cause of such incidents when they know its not true.

[PMartin37 161]

Lot of the teacher have been wanting to conceal carry at school, where they can act as the first responders.

I have yet to hear of the superhero concealed weapon holders coming to save the day in this story. In fact, I have yet to hear a story that involves multiple automatic and/or assault weapons being used where the superhero citizen emerges.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

CCC for K-12 and this would NEVER have happened!

[Harsh_77 718]

I have yet to hear of the superhero concealed weapon holders coming to save the day in this story. In fact, I have yet to hear a story that involves multiple automatic and/or assault weapons being used where the superhero citizen emerges.

Than you are wrong there have been cases where person carrying concealed weapon has saved lives of ppl.

Recent one was in some cafe in Florida where grandpa saved ppl when armed robber tried to tob the place and take hostage.

You do not hear about them as they are not much of hot news for news media..you will find a little article burried in pages media would not put it on front page.

From media perspective it is not a sensational news when someone conceal carrying saves the lives.

PPl who conceal carry do not carry assault rifles on them.

Edited December 15, 2012 by Harsh_77