U.S. citizens to be required ''clearance'' from DHS

[DeadPoolX 9]

Published Date: October 26, 2006

Forget no-fly lists. If Uncle Sam gets its way, beginning on Jan. 14, 2007, we'll all be on no-fly lists, unless the government gives us permission to leave-or re-enter-the United States.

The U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has proposed that all airlines, cruise lines -- even fishing boats -- be required to obtain clearance for each passenger they propose taking into or out of the United States.

It doesn't matter if you have a U.S. Passport -- a "travel document" that now, absent a court order to the contrary, gives you a virtually unqualified right to enter or leave the United States, any time you want. When the DHS system comes into effect next January, if the agency says "no" to a clearance request, or doesn't answer the request at all, you won't be permitted to enter-or leave-the United States.

Consider what might happen if you're a U.S. passport holder on assignment in a country like Saudi Arabia. Your visa is about to expire, so you board your flight back to the United States. But wait! You can't get on, because you don't have permission from the DHS. Saudi immigration officials are on hand to escort you to a squalid detention center, where you and others who are now effectively "stateless persons" are detained, potentially indefinitely, until their immigration status is sorted out.

Why might the DHS deny you permission to leave-or enter-the United States? No one knows, because the entire clearance procedure would be an administrative determination made secretly, with no right of appeal. Naturally, the decision would be made without a warrant, without probable cause and without even any particular degree of suspicion. Basically, if the DHS decides it doesn't like you, you're a prisoner -- either outside, or inside, the United States, whether or not you hold a U.S. passport.

The U.S. Supreme Court has long recognized there is a constitutional right to travel internationally. Indeed, it has declared that the right to travel is "a virtually unconditional personal right." The United States has also signed treaties guaranteeing "freedom of travel." So if these regulations do go into effect, you can expect a lengthy court battle, both nationally and internationally.

Think this can't happen? Think again. It's ALREADY happening. Earlier this year, DHS forbade airlines from transporting an 18-year-old a native-born U.S. citizen, back to the United States. The prohibition lasted nearly six months until it was finally lifted a few weeks ago. Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union are two countries in recent history that didn't allow their citizens to travel abroad without permission. If these regulations go into effect, you can add the United States to this list.

For more information on this proposed regulation, see this PDF link -- http://hasbrouck.org/IDP/IDP-APIS-comments.pdf

[aussiewench 9]

I can't even begin to get my thoughts down on what I think about this....all I can do is

[mybackpages 0]

I can't even begin to get my thoughts down on what I think about this....all I can do is

I am right there with you Is this science fiction or VJ?

[Donna A 4]

what happened to our freedom?

[aussiewench 9]

what happened to our freedom?

Say bye

[Veiled Princess 1]

what happened to our freedom?

Say bye

[garya505 2]

The sky is falling!

[Savanphil 3]

Oh DAM

Edited November 27, 2006 by Savanphil

[Arazia 0]

I've read over the actual document (found here) and it really doesn't seem as nefarious as everyone is making it out to be.

Essentially, they used to be required to submit a manifest of passengers by 15 minutes after departure time. Now they are required to submit it 30 minutes prior to departure time. If a passenger somehow triggers security checks, then they'll be pulled from the flight. Specifically, look at page 37 and 38 of the document, that's where it discusses this stuff.

[RKhalid 0]

I've read over the actual document (found here) and it really doesn't seem as nefarious as everyone is making it out to be.

Essentially, they used to be required to submit a manifest of passengers by 15 minutes after departure time. Now they are required to submit it 30 minutes prior to departure time. If a passenger somehow triggers security checks, then they'll be pulled from the flight. Specifically, look at page 37 and 38 of the document, that's where it discusses this stuff.

i was freaking out till i read your post..., now im relieved

[sparkofcreation 0]

Yeah, Arazia is right. When I first read this, I freaked out about it, and my husband (the crazy government conspiracy theorist—I am the calm, conservative one around here) went and looked it up.

It will eliminate a lot of problems with flights being diverted because they find out after takeoff that someone on it is on a watch list. Now they will check it beforehand.

I am still not entirely thrilled with the whole no-fly list thing (my best friend has a 7-month-old son whose name is on it ... how does that make the nation safer?) but this does not strike me as worse than what is currently going on.

[Caladan 19]

Still. If the person's gone through security, which if they're on the plane they have, why should they be pulled from the flight?

[aussiewench 9]

(my best friend has a 7-month-old son whose name is on it ... how does that make the nation safer?)

That is insane

[DeadPoolX 9]

Well, I'm certainly glad to find out it's not quite as bad as I originally thought. However, I'm still not happy with it...

As for the "No-Fly List," a lot of people have gotten caught up in that -- your average Joe to senators to former television stars. It's really insane how they check the background of someone and supposedly match it up on the list. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Then there's the random security checks which are performed on people and you can tell if you're going to go through that by the stamp on your boarding pass, marked "SSSS." Although perhaps it's unfair to say it's completely random -- you can trigger "SSSS" if you book a one-way flight, a flight the day before take-off, use cash to pay for it, and so on. Certain things like that will make force you through the high-grade security line.

[akdiver 3]

Then there's the random security checks which are performed on people and you can tell if you're going to go through that by the stamp on your boarding pass, marked "SSSS." Although perhaps it's unfair to say it's completely random -- you can trigger "SSSS" if you book a one-way flight, a flight the day before take-off, use cash to pay for it, and so on. Certain things like that will make force you through the high-grade security line.

I got smart on this one. I use web-checkin, and print two boarding passes while I am at home. When I check my bags, if I get the SSSS stamp on the boarding pass I give the bag checker, then I just stuff it in my pocket and use the second, unstamped boarding pass to get through security. Works like a charm.

Cheers!

AKDiver