Michigan close to becoming Right to Work State

[rlogan 2,036]

This isn't going to turn out good. I haven't come across many non union commercial construction outfits...if any, that were worth a nickel. btw that guy in the pic they labeled as a steel worker is actually an iron worker.

I've run several in my lifetime. I was always exploiting myself as the greedy capitalist owner, and fighting for my worker rights against myself at the same time.

[Karee 4,191]

Detroit Free Press

So what's the problem? I hope you're not going to tell me that unions don't use member dues to support their political agendas.

[Karee 4,191]

Highest unemployment rate by state: Michigan #6 Highest Union membership per capita by state: Michigan #5

http://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_membership_by_state

[Golden Gate 530]

So what's the problem? I hope you're not going to tell me that unions don't use member dues to support their political agendas.

The problem is they are destroying the unions, the only way employees have to negotiate for their rights in the public and private sectors. That's the problem! My father was the chief negotiator for the administration in education in Michigan, and he even believes in the unions.

[Golden Gate 530]

Highest unemployment rate by state: Michigan #6 Highest Union membership per capita by state: Michigan #5

http://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_membership_by_state

Yeah, many industries moved their factories out of Michigan to places like Mexico, that's why it has high unemployment, so they can pay people $1.50 per hour. Certainly people don't need to be making $30.00 per hour, but many are now making $16.00/hour in the auto industry and I am sure they are trying to halve that again, til people can't survive. I know they pay $8.30 to make automobile mirrors through Magna Mirrors and work their workers to the bone.

There needs to be a happy medium.

Edited December 11, 2012 by Golden Gate

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Highest unemployment rate by state: Michigan #6 Highest Union membership per capita by state: Michigan #5

http://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_membership_by_state

That proves nothing, though. Massachusetts and Louisiana both have a below average unemployment rate of 6.6%. Massachusetts has triple the union membership rate of Louisiana. Apparently there isn't any correlation - much less any causation - between union prevalence and unemployment rates. Nice try, though.

[Karee 4,191]

The problem is they are destroying the unions, the only way employees have to negotiate for their rights in the public and private sectors. That's the problem! My father was the chief negotiator for the administration in education in Michigan, and he even believes in the unions.

Do you think it's fair that employees get pay increases based on how long they've been on that job rather than their performance? I don't. It's counter-productive.

Negotiate for what rights? The 40 hour work week? Time and a half for overtime? Those are rights guaranteed by the government already thanks to the unions in the past. That fight has already been fought. There is no right for pay increases, health insurance, paid holidays etc.

[Karee 4,191]

Yeah, many industries moved their factories out of Michigan to places like Mexico, that's why it has high unemployment, so they can pay people $1.50 per hour. Certainly people don't need to be making $30.00 per hour, but many are now making $16.00/hour in the auto industry and I am sure they are trying to halve that again, til people can't survive. I know they pay $8.30 to make automobile mirrors through Magna Mirrors and work their workers to the bone.

There needs to be a happy medium.

How are manufacturers supposed to compete with overseas labor. Manufacturers even closed alot of the plants in Mexico because the labor costs were were cheaper in Asia.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

There is no right for pay increases, health insurance, paid holidays etc.

Right. And that is why unions remain important. It's not a coincidence that along with the demise of unions, wages and benefits for most Americans remain flatlined. It's not a coincidence that along with the demise of unions, gains in productivity are no longer shared but all go back to the plutocrats. If you believe that a middle class will continue to exist in this country without unions, you've learned nothing over the last few decades.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

How are manufacturers supposed to compete with overseas labor.

By utilizing an educated and well trained work force working smarter. How does Germany manufacture and export the goods all over the world running trade surpluses second only to China? Don't sit there and pretend it can't be done. Lost faith in America?

[Karee 4,191]

Right. And that is why unions remain important. It's not a coincidence that along with the demise of unions, wages and benefits for most Americans remain flatlined. It's not a coincidence that along with the demise of unions, gains in productivity are no longer shared but all go back to the plutocrats. If you believe that a middle class will continue to exist in this country without unions, you've learned nothing over the last few decades.

So what's the solution then? Tariffs on overseas goods? We know that doesn't work. It's a global market now. Things have changed. It's not one union company competing against another union company any longer.

[Golden Gate 530]

How are manufacturers supposed to compete with overseas labor. Manufacturers even closed alot of the plants in Mexico because the labor costs were were cheaper in Asia.

Well, Magna Mirrors has made the most profit this year of its entire existence. Certainly they aren't suffering. Poor babies. I feel so sorry for them.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

So what's the solution then? Tariffs on overseas goods? We know that doesn't work. It's a global market now. Things have changed. It's not one union company competing against another union company any longer.

How does Germany do it? Biggest exporter of goods right after China. And that place is infested with unions. Last I checked, they were part of the globe, too. Competing in the same global economy. Are you saying that America can't figure it out? American exceptionalism? No? Gone?

[Karee 4,191]

By utilizing an educated and well trained work force working smarter. How does Germany manufacture and export the goods all over the world running trade surpluses second only to China? Don't sit there and pretend it can't be done. Lost faith in America?

I'm not familiar with how unions work in Germany. I'll have to read up on that. My guess is the unions work much differently there than UAW here, but I don't honestly know.

Just because I don't agree with something, doesn't mean I've lost faith in America. Frankly, you suggesting that is pretty un-American on your part.

[Golden Gate 530]

Do you think it's fair that employees get pay increases based on how long they've been on that job rather than their performance? I don't. It's counter-productive.

Negotiate for what rights? The 40 hour work week? Time and a half for overtime? Those are rights guaranteed by the government already thanks to the unions in the past. That fight has already been fought. There is no right for pay increases, health insurance, paid holidays etc.

No, those rights are being taken away with right to work.