American boy loves Ukrainian girl..looking for advice

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Maybe she was looking for a document that had a picture of a president on it!

They seem to like Andrew Jackson One photo is usually enough but sometimes they want 2 or 3.

You are a hoot, James...as always!

we had to get a document changed before we filed because of errors in spelling (we probably didn't need to, but Alla insisted it would be a problem if we did not) We were given the usual "Ukrainian 3 weeks" blah, blah, blah. Alla reached in her purse during the blah, blah, blah and put a $20 bill on the counter. The clerk stopped and looked at her. Took the $20 and said "Wait in the hallway" The document he "couldn't possibly prepare in less than 3 weeks" was in our hand in 10 minutes.

Edited December 6, 2012 by Gary and Alla

[Nick_Moscow 2]

If the Ukrainian process is anything like it is in Kazakhstan, then you will save a lot of standing in line waiting for the person to give you a document so you can fill it out and then stand in another line to get yet another document that has to be given to someone in a building half way across the city that is only open from 1300-1500 on Tuesdays and Thursdays. After that you get yet another document, but wait you do not have what they need so it is back across the city and then hope you can make it before they close for the day or wait until next week. What a royal PITA just to change the last name on a passport. My wife had to go thru all of this just to get a new passport in her maiden name that was compliant with some new regulation and all passports issued before 2009 had to be changed. At least her passport now is good until 2020. The entire process of submitting the forms and all that took about 3 WEEKS.

As stated above by everyone else, changing the last name is a personal choice and I think we all know where you stand on this issue--it is so important to you that you would not marry your wife if she did not change her name. I believe the other way, but I also believe it is up to the people involved to decide for themselves.

Dave

This pretty much describes the process in Russia as well, except in Russia they can also close for lunch without first serving all the people who have been standing in line. I guess much of Eastern Europe is like this. God help us if the US Bureaucrats become this powerful.

I won't try to poo-poo anyone's decision on the name change as everyone of us of course thinks our immigration process was the best, most interesting, etc. BUT unless you've spent a significant amount of time in your wife's country (and especially unless you know the native language), you probably don't understand how sacred "documents" are in the FSU. My wife's jaw dropped to the floor in the US embassy in Moscow when we submitted a CR1 visa form with an error and the worker simply corrected it with his own red pen! As Dave perfectly described, this situation would have happened much differently in FSU.

I'm not attacking anyone's morals or telling them what to do. We're all here to offer experience-based advice to help new visa journey-ers. So the whole point of this is to forewarn OP of issues that could arise in the future over what seem now like mundane details.

BTW, aren't trudovye knigi ("work books"; they're official records of one's work history) important when it comes to pensions or other social benefits? Can anyone weigh in on success or failure in receiving pensions or materinsky kapital with current documents that have the name change?

[Martyshk 137]

BUT unless you've spent a significant amount of time in your wife's country (and especially unless you know the native language), you probably don't understand how sacred "documents" are in the FSU.

Yes (17 years) and yes (fluent in both Russian and Ukrainian).

So yeah, I'm gonna keep talking about these topics from the standpoint that I know what I'm talking about

And you are right, makes a hell of a difference knowing the inside workings of the country your wife is from.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Yes (17 years) and yes (fluent in both Russian and Ukrainian).

So yeah, I'm gonna keep talking about these topics from the standpoint that I know what I'm talking about

And you are right, makes a hell of a difference knowing the inside workings of the country your wife is from.

As an example, the document we bribed someone to correct quickly had her name mispelled. I insisted it would not matter but Alla insisted that, in Ukraine, that mis-spelling meant it was "someone else" not her!

The US does not take typos so seriously and I do not think anyone would have questioned the document.

Yes, they do take documents seriously in the FSU

[Nick_Moscow 2]

Yes (17 years) and yes (fluent in both Russian and Ukrainian).

So yeah, I'm gonna keep talking about these topics from the standpoint that I know what I'm talking about

And you are right, makes a hell of a difference knowing the inside workings of the country your wife is from.

17 years!? That's amazing...How did you pull that off - multiple visas or permanent residency? Over on the forums at the Moscow Times, I've read about the nightmare that is running around for documents for Russian permanent residency, so I never really looked into it. Also curious about working - most white collar job ads that I see for overseas (non-FSU countries included) all require that the applicant already have legal status to work in the country. If you know a good way to get a non-ESOL job in Ukraine maybe that will help the OP in his decision to live with his lady over in her country before tying the knot.

As an example, the document we bribed someone to correct quickly had her name mispelled. I insisted it would not matter but Alla insisted that, in Ukraine, that mis-spelling meant it was "someone else" not her!

The US does not take typos so seriously and I do not think anyone would have questioned the document.

Yes, they do take documents seriously in the FSU

Another great point! You never think about this stuff but be very careful how your own name is transliterated into Ukrainian on their documents - visas, marriage certificates, permanent residencies, etc. After I got married in Russia and my name was transliterated into Russian on the Marriage Certificate I noticed that all my visas each had a different transliteration of my last name. So for each subsequent visa I'm very careful how my name is spelled in Cyrillic. As frustrated as my Russian wife can make me at times I don't want some Russian official claiming we aren't really married!

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Another great point! You never think about this stuff but be very careful how your own name is transliterated into Ukrainian on their documents - visas, marriage certificates, permanent residencies, etc. After I got married in Russia and my name was transliterated into Russian on the Marriage Certificate I noticed that all my visas each had a different transliteration of my last name. So for each subsequent visa I'm very careful how my name is spelled in Cyrillic. As frustrated as my Russian wife can make me at times I don't want some Russian official claiming we aren't really married!

Misspellings happened alot after the government decided all documents had to be in Ukrainian despite the fact that few people speak, read or write Ukrainian in east Ukraine, so there were a lot of mis-spellings and incorrectly translated names including both our sons names.

As it turns out the US is well aware of this and accepts virtually any reasonable spelling of a name on a document, Ukraine is not so accomodating

[Martyshk 137]

17 years!? That's amazing...How did you pull that off - multiple visas or permanent residency?

I was born in Ukraine, so yeah, that's how

[Martyshk 137]

If you know a good way to get a non-ESOL job in Ukraine maybe that will help the OP in his decision to live with his lady over in her country before tying the knot.

Yeah, I wouldn't advise that. Ever.

Unless you are wealthy and, well, enjoy the "little intricacies" of life in a (almost) third world country.

[Martyshk 137]

Misspellings happened alot after the government decided all documents had to be in Ukrainian despite the fact that few people speak, read or write Ukrainian in east Ukraine, so there were a lot of mis-spellings and incorrectly translated names including both our sons names.

As it turns out the US is well aware of this and accepts virtually any reasonable spelling of a name on a document, Ukraine is not so accommodating

No kidding, Gary.

My name has been butchered on at least two official Ukrainian documents... My parents had issues too.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

No kidding, Gary.

My name has been butchered on at least two official Ukrainian documents... My parents had issues too.

Alla is ethnic Russian and our boys are named after their grandfathers. Sergey and Pavel. Ukraine chnaged it to Sergii and Pavlo. Alla pitched FIT! They do this and do nto even tell you. They just go and change official documents.

As far as work in Ukraine, non ESOL work is difficult to find IN UKRAINE. I worked for a contractor with a project in Ukraine. That would be the best bet, if you have some sort of construction background, we had several Americans on the project but the majority of the trades people and labor (ALL the labor) were "natives" which meant "lived there". A lot of the laborers were Tajik's, Uzbec's, etc. Engineers were Russian or Ukrainian, tradesmen were mostly Ukrainian. We had one Czech woman for a structural engineer. I never witnessed ethnic discrimination or outright hatred as I saw there. The US is a lightweight when it come to that. You first had to keep the crews from killing each other and then had to get them to work together.

I found the lifestyle interesting BUT, I had an American salary, overseas bonus and living stipend, I was single in a city full of single HOT women...what's not interesting about that? It would have been a LOT less interesting working 70 hours a week for $300 per month. And I knew that after 24 months I was going back to the US (or, as it turned out, to Montreal...same thing) I always felt like I understaood a LITTLE better than most how our wives feel but maybe not. They are coming for good, for life, and they MUST learn a new language (it was optional for me) etc. I do not compare the two any longer.

Ukraine is a difficult place to just go and work and have a career, I do not recommend it. You have to be more "hard" than here in the US. Ukraine is an incredible place to visit. I love Ukraine, I love going to visit (Pasha is going for one month leaving Wednesday and Sergey is going for 3 weeks leaving next Friday) It was the greatest adventure of my life, but I do not recommend moving there permanently. Even my wife is no longer "Rah Rah Ukraine!" She will always be proud and always be Ukrainian (thank you God!) but she does not compare the lifestyle anymore.

She laughed at me when I told her "The average American woman, if she had to walk 4 blocks to the market, carry her groceries and walk up 5 flights of stairs would throw down the bags, scream #### YOU! and run away" She laughed at that. Now she pushes the garage door opener, drives in, closes the door and walks straight into the kitchen from the garage. The water is alwatys hot when you want it, the heat always works, the electricity almost never fails. She knows the difference.

[eekee 182]

Honestly I don't think it'd be that smart to move to Ukraine. Would you move there if it weren't for this girl? If you're going to make that big of a commitment, you might as well take this time to build a better life for yourself in America. You can always withdraw a petition and you have 90 days to get married on a K-1. Your time would be better spent getting a better job in the US, furthering your education if necessary, rather than not being able to hold down a steady job because you're always going to Ukraine. And I am saying that as an expat who has lived in Russia since 2006. Unless you have a job like Gary's, the longer you stay away, the harder it is to rebuild a life in the US.

[Nick_Moscow 2]

Honestly I don't think it'd be that smart to move to Ukraine. Would you move there if it weren't for this girl? If you're going to make that big of a commitment, you might as well take this time to build a better life for yourself in America. You can always withdraw a petition and you have 90 days to get married on a K-1. Your time would be better spent getting a better job in the US, furthering your education if necessary, rather than not being able to hold down a steady job because you're always going to Ukraine. And I am saying that as an expat who has lived in Russia since 2006. Unless you have a job like Gary's, the longer you stay away, the harder it is to rebuild a life in the US.

Yes living and working abroad is a big step, but trust me, eekee, there ain't no commitment out there in life that's bigger than marriage!! (Stronger divorce law in US also makes this all the more true) The K1 Visa is a good way to bring someone over to get married but it's NOT a good way to blind date. OP, think of a simple job arrangement in Ukraine as your own "work-and-travel" visa that helps you figure out if you really want to marry this girl.

[eekee 182]

The OP dated her while she was on a J-1 and has been to Ukraine a bunch of times for long periods of time already.

Edited December 9, 2012 by eekee

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Honestly I don't think it'd be that smart to move to Ukraine. Would you move there if it weren't for this girl? If you're going to make that big of a commitment, you might as well take this time to build a better life for yourself in America. You can always withdraw a petition and you have 90 days to get married on a K-1. Your time would be better spent getting a better job in the US, furthering your education if necessary, rather than not being able to hold down a steady job because you're always going to Ukraine. And I am saying that as an expat who has lived in Russia since 2006. Unless you have a job like Gary's, the longer you stay away, the harder it is to rebuild a life in the US.

And I will be honest, I had a contracted job in Ukraine which was followed by a contracted job in Montreal and after that ... nothing! I had enough to tide me over until I did get something but I actually was in a bit of a pinch with the Affidavit of support for Alla, or at least worried I would be (I was not as it turned out). But yeah, working over there means nothing if you do not have something to come back to.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Yes living and working abroad is a big step, but trust me, eekee, there ain't no commitment out there in life that's bigger than marriage!! (Stronger divorce law in US also makes this all the more true) The K1 Visa is a good way to bring someone over to get married but it's NOT a good way to blind date. OP, think of a simple job arrangement in Ukraine as your own "work-and-travel" visa that helps you figure out if you really want to marry this girl.

I don't necesarily agree. I dated a LOT of women in Ukraine. More than anyone would believe unless they also lived there under the same circumstances. (no one believes this stuff unless they go there anyway, I gave up on that) and I never felt the desire to marry any of them and I dated one woman that I met the day I arrived until the last day I was there, 2 years, and it just wasn't going to go to marriage, but we both knew that. We were good friends and had a lot of fun. On the other hand I met Alla when I was leaving Ukraine to come back and knew I would marry her by the end of our first evening together.

Commitment is crucial, I agree, by both people but you do not have to know someone all that long if you are both prepared to commit to each other. At least I cannot judge that for someone else.