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[decocker 7,198]

Martin did absolutely nothing to warrant Zimmerman's attention, other than being black in Zimmerman's neighborhood.

they won't let down in their support for zimmerman because they feel that if they do, it would belittle a person's right to self defense. it would be awesome if they could realize that admitting that zimmerman got a little big for his britches and needlessly killed another person doesn't mean that we shouldn't or don't have the right to defend ourselves in this country. zimmerman killing trayvon shouldn't be about the 'standing your ground' law or about gun control. it's an example of what happens when situations get out of control. i think its safe to say that everyone here would like to maintain the right to walk down a street without being harassed, especially by a person in plainclothes. i most certainly would tell my son that if a stranger followed him and questioned him repeatedly - to get ready to defend himself. anyone who claims they would do otherwise or tell their children to do otherwise - is lying.

[natty bumppo 297]

I'm curious to know what the reaction would be if the situation was reversed.

Trayvon Martin, a black teenager carrying a gun, following Zimmerman for no reason and demanding to know who he was and what he was doing in his neighborhood. A confrontation happens and Zimmerman ends up dead because Trayvon had a gun.

Would there be any sympathy or justifying Trayvon's actions?

well ... let us know how it works out.

it didn't happen that way and your speculation is as good a guess and the next persons ...

[Penny Lane 8,159]

I am all for a person's right to self defense. I also, contrary to popular belief, don't support having guns taken away. People can't seem to grasp the fact that Zimmerman initiated the conflict and he didn't have to. If someone was following me down the street at night, demanding to know where I was coming from or where I was going or what I was doing in the neighborhood, I'd either keep walking (which Martin attempted) or get ready to defend myself somehow.

Because following someone and interrogating them based on their appearance is not something that normal, logical people do. Zimmerman was all upset because of the fact that his neighborhood was getting hit by crime lately, and I get that. But to start racial profiling doesn't make sense, and doesn't give him the right to do whatever he wants without consequence. Zimmerman was over confident due to his "position" in the neighborhood watch in addition to the gun he knew he was carrying. Martin wasn't looking for a conflict, Zimmerman was. And he got one. And he ended up killing a teenager for nothing.

[JohnR! 5,495]

I am all for a person's right to self defense. I also, contrary to popular belief, don't support having guns taken away. People can't seem to grasp the fact that Zimmerman initiated the conflict and he didn't have to. If someone was following me down the street at night, demanding to know where I was coming from or where I was going or what I was doing in the neighborhood, I'd either keep walking (which Martin attempted) or get ready to defend myself somehow.

Because following someone and interrogating them based on their appearance is not something that normal, logical people do. Zimmerman was all upset because of the fact that his neighborhood was getting hit by crime lately, and I get that. But to start racial profiling doesn't make sense, and doesn't give him the right to do whatever he wants without consequence. Zimmerman was over confident due to his "position" in the neighborhood watch in addition to the gun he knew he was carrying. Martin wasn't looking for a conflict, Zimmerman was. And he got one. And he ended up killing a teenager for nothing.

Of course he did. He had a gun, the kid did not. Why not pick the easy fight? That is what cowards do: they use their guns to back up their empty bravado. It is very easy to pick a fight with anyone when you have a gun and they don't.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

Of course he did. He had a gun, the kid did not. Why not pick the easy fight? That is what cowards do: they use their guns to back up their empty bravado. It is very easy to pick a fight with anyone when you have a gun and they don't.

Well, Zimmerman had no way of knowing whether Martin had a gun or not. And yet, he took the risk of creating the conflict anyway.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Trayvon WAS walking away up until a certain point. He just kept walking home. Zimmerman was simply a neighborhood watch volunteer. Being the "head" of the neighborhood watch in his community gives him no authority. He should have simply called 911 and let them do their job. Taking matters into your own hands, getting out of your vehicle and following someone on foot and demanding answers out of them is taking the risk of creating a conflict, which is exactly what happened.

Martin did absolutely nothing to warrant Zimmerman's attention, other than being black in Zimmerman's neighborhood.

Did Zimmerman demand answers from Martin? Were you there to witness this? Again ...and read this slowly so you take it all in...Zimmerman was head of his neighborhood watch in a gaited community that had experienced close to two dozen robberies in less than two years, 17 of those robberies being committed by black males. If you had actually read up on anything about Zimmerman, his neighbors, and prior events you just might actually have a clue.

Edited December 5, 2012 by Bad_Daddy

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I love how some of you think poor little innocent Trayvon was the good guy. He beat the ####### out of someone and when you do that, you place your own life in danger. You do not have the right to beat someone just because they're following you. In Florida, you do have the right to shoot someone when they're beating you.

Since you're talking facts here, lets review some other facts. Multiple thefts in the area led Zimmerman to actively patrol his neighborhood - something we all should do. When criminals commit thefts in your neighborhood the most effective deterrent is people from the neighborhood talking to strangers when present. Trayvon Martin was a stranger in that neighborhood. He did not live there. He was only there because he was suspended from school in Miami and sent to stay with his father. Zimmerman acted in a responsible manner by trailing Martin while simultaneously alerting the authorities. As others have pointed out, the 9-1-1 dispatcher is not the police and there was never an order to discontinue the pursuit and/or search for Martin.

A person with a concealed carry license cannot legally instigate a fight in order to use their handgun. However, pursuing someone and attempting to ascertain who they are and why they're there is hardly instigating a fight. By that rationale, we'd be legally cleared to shoot every police officer we encountered because they started a fight with us.

In this case, (and from what's been released so far) the only evidence of a fight is a very one-sided encounter where Martin was physically assaulting Zimmerman to the point he was in fear for his life. The physical evidence suggests Zimmerman acted according to the law.

The big issue is why the photo in the OP wasn't released until recently. Poor little Trayvon has been shown to be this cute little kid who couldn't hurt a flea. Even President Obama felt sorry for the little lad. But, imagine the look on Al Sharpton's face when poor little Trayvon was pictured next to this photo of Zimmerman. How could that innocent little teenager do that much damage? And how could we, as a nation, condemn that man for defending himself?

I know Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, President Obama, and all the other racists out there will defend little Trayvon with their best efforts. But images such as the one in the OP clearly illustrate the state of Trayvon Martin's innocence and, more importantly, his capability.

Edited December 5, 2012 by Su and Marvin

[JohnR! 5,495]

Well, Zimmerman had no way of knowing whether Martin had a gun or not. And yet, he took the risk of creating the conflict anyway.

He was looking for trouble one way or another, but regardless, he shot and killed a man with no reason to do so. If Zimmerman were black and had killed a white man, the story would be very, very different.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

Did Zimmerman demand answers from Martin? Where you there to witness this? Again ...and read this slowly so you take it all in...Zimmerman was head of his neighborhood watch in a gaited community that had experienced close to two dozen robberies in less than two years, 17 of those robberies being committed by black males. If you had actually read up on anything about Zimmerman, his neighbors, and prior events you just might actually have a clue.

I know you'd like to just imply that I'm too stupid to understand things instead of actually have a discussion, and that's fine. I've already mentioned the history in Zimmerman's neighborhood, as well as his position with the neighborhood watch. None of these things mean Zimmerman can confront whoever he wants based on their appearance and follow them around.

Witness testimony says that Zimmerman was asking Martin questions. Martin asked Zimmerman why he was following him, and Zimmerman demanded to know what he was doing here.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I know you'd like to just imply that I'm too stupid to understand things instead of actually have a discussion, and that's fine. I've already mentioned the history in Zimmerman's neighborhood, as well as his position with the neighborhood watch. None of these things mean Zimmerman can confront whoever he wants based on their appearance and follow them around.

Witness testimony says that Zimmerman was asking Martin questions. Martin asked Zimmerman why he was following him, and Zimmerman demanded to know what he was doing here.

Hey Ev, thanks for holding it down on here. My wife was sick and I took a break from VJ to take care of her, you are more American than some of the folks on here that claim to be. Now, step aside old friend, I'll take it from here:

Since you seem to think GZ was in the right for what happened, let's look at what happended that night:

GZ: Coming or going to Target, he sees this kid walking from the store. Now let's look at that, you said it's ok to pursuse someone if they are trying to get information from them. Cool, so why didn't GZ identify himself first, then just ask where the kid was going? I mean he is the neighborhood watch right, and a concerned resident, where was the harm in that? TM might have just answered him I am visiting my dad over here and that might have been the end of it. He was in a vehicle, TM was on foot talking to his girlfriend on the phone. How hard would it have been to catch up to him? But instead he called 911. Now lets look at that call. He made sure that TM was a criminal before he even approached this kid, listen to the verbage he used: "He looks suspicious, he looks like he is on drugs or something, these ***holes always get away", right there TM is a drug addict, doing something criminal right now, and have already committed a crime of some sort. He had to do this because if he just said hey I see this black kid walking home from the store at 7pm at night without anything else, they wouldn't have responded. TM wasn't committing a crime, he was where he should have been, he had a hoodie on because it was raining outside. When TM got to the walkways and GZ couldn't follow in his car he got out and started to chase him on foot. At this point, he is no longer following him, he is stalking him, and he is still on the phone with 911. There have been a series of break-ins in the neighborhood by black people, so automatically he had to have done something right? He's black, that means he's guilty? At this point he is chasing this boy through some backyard allyways, do you think his intentions were honorble? If he was so concerned why didn't he approach him when they were on the street? Oh that's right, he called 911 the split second he saw him, he didn't wait until TM actually broke the law, he was doing his duty to make sure this kid was locked up before he even thought of going down that path. Now let's look at TM:

TM: Went to the store for some Arizona Ice tea and a bag of skittles, oh the horror, you can tell right there this kid is up to no good. And at 7pm, man he is out to do some real damage at THAT hour! He leaves the store and starts talking to his girlfriend, I guess walking and talking on the cell phone is just screaming maniac. GZ is now following him while on the phone with 911 going into great detail about this young hoodlum and his nefarious ways(you know all that ####### I said above that this kid was doing but not doing) TM knows he is being followed because GM is staring at him in a car while trailing behind him. At this point he told his girlfriend he wasn't going to run, but he was trying to get home, maybe he didn't really want to fight. But look at where TM was killed, 64 meters from his back door, which means either he circled back, caught GZ by suprise when GZ got out of his car to read a road sign(yeah right) and then tried to run back home when he was shot, or the more plausible idea that GZ caught TM in the allyway close to his home, they had words(at this point, you can't tell me that GZ was nice and cordial with the black teenager he just spent over 5 minutes degrading on the phone by calling him a drug addict and a criminal) and TM swung first. Now tell me something, who do you think was more afraid at that point? The 17 year old unarmed black teenager who has spent the last 10 minutes of his life trying to evade a stranger, or the 28 year old white/hispanic guy who was armed with a gun, who was so sure this boy was a criminal that he call the police and gave this detailed description of all these things this boy didn't do, but went the extra mile and followed him the entire time until he caught up to him.

Now we will never know what really happened because TM can't tell his side of the story, he's dead. Shot by a man who swore his life was in danger when TM started beating him up. A beating that took place only when GZ FINALLY caught up to TM in a back ally when this kid was trying to get home. I am appalled by the mere fact that most of the right wing people on here who love to talk about rights and due process, innocent until proven guilty, have bent over backwards to make TM and Jordan Davis guilty of something just to justify why they were killed. So I guess being a black person changes the rules. If the color were reversed the same folks condemming TM would have strung GZ up by his entrails if he was black and TM was white. Just like Jordan Davis's crime was listening to music too loudly in a public place, in his own vehicle. Both of these things were small, but I guess when you are black, these little things can be spun into crimes, for which there is only one punishment: death.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Well said Marvin. I have been posting extreme sarcasm because there have been too many threads on this subject and the defenders of Zimm just can't get through their thick skulls the reality of Zimm causing a deadly confrontation at 7 freaking pm with an innocent teenager. They can't admit it and don't see their defense of Zimm puts their precious right to 'stand your ground' into true perspective. They carry guns and if they ever get a chance to kill like Zimm want 'I was scared for my life' to be their ticket out of trouble.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

Well said Marvin. I have been posting extreme sarcasm because there have been too many threads on this subject and the defenders of Zimm just can't get through their thick skulls the reality of Zimm causing a deadly confrontation at 7 freaking pm with an innocent teenager. They can't admit it and don't see their defense of Zimm puts their precious right to 'stand your ground' into true perspective. They carry guns and if they ever get a chance to kill like Zimm want 'I was scared for my life' to be their ticket out of trouble.

These are some of the same people who defend pulling a gun on kids listening to music too loud. Don't expect much logic out of them.

[JohnR! 5,495]

These are some of the same people who defend pulling a gun on kids listening to music too loud. Don't expect much logic out of them.

:thumbs: :thumbs:

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Anyone ever wondered why some people choose to live in a gaited community along with having an active neighborhood watch?

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Anyone ever wondered why some people choose to live in a gaited community along with having an active neighborhood watch?

Maybe because they had come criminal activity in the area? Say what you are really thinking, don't tip toe around it, I'm interested in what your opinion is.