bush bashers unite!

[I'm Gone 60]

I voted for him twice and would probably vote for him again if the other choice was Gore or Kerry, but unless something changes his invading Iraq is going to have his Presidency probably go down as one of the worse even if everyone in the U.S. has a job.

Edited November 4, 2006 by mdyoung

[Sheriff Uling 3]

Want to compare Dumbass's (Bush's) record to Cliniton's --> "the link"

That's unfair because Clinton is a genius and Bush is a dumbass... NO COMPARISON!!!

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

anyone else noticed a few people missing from this thread?

Aw, I'm humbled that you missed me.

[Cristy 4]

So, I may be alone in this, but when I see the latino day laborers standing in front of Home Depot by the dozens, there is never a part of me that looks at these people as taking jobs away U.S citizens. There is no question that at least these people ARE doing jobs that nobody else will do.

I see that here too and think the same thing.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

So, I may be alone in this, but when I see the latino day laborers standing in front of Home Depot by the dozens, there is never a part of me that looks at these people as taking jobs away U.S citizens. There is no question that at least these people ARE doing jobs that nobody else will do.

They're offering a service at a price and under conditions that nobody else is willing to match is more like it. It's like outsourcing jobs only you actually insource the cheap and undemanding labor. That labor, however, is a force that doesn't just contribute to the economy but a force that also drains resources that those that work legally fund - which is why they can't meet the price of those waiting to be picked up at the Home Depot. Overall, that is eroding the economy and social systems here - very few profit from this scheme.

Edited November 4, 2006 by ET-US2004

[I'm Gone 60]

So, I may be alone in this, but when I see the latino day laborers standing in front of Home Depot by the dozens, there is never a part of me that looks at these people as taking jobs away U.S citizens. There is no question that at least these people ARE doing jobs that nobody else will do.

I see that here too and think the same thing.

I don't care if they only take the dirtiest nastiest jobs that no U.S. citizen would ever think about taking. There are not supposed to be in the country, let alone working here.

[Carol&Marc 0]

Bashing aside – I’ve always skeptical about unemployment statistics (from any source) as they often bear little correlation to those actually “out of work”.

As long as the way of measuring the statistics is always the same it doesnt matter, the point is if you want to work you can find a job.

Not saying you can't - just that "unemployed" is not the same as "out of work". Unemployed usually requires some sort of registration with a benefits agency, doesn't it?

If I remember correctly Tony Blair promised and delivered a massive reduction in the numbers of unemployed people about 2-3 years ago I believe. How did he do this? By making it harder to get unemployment welfare - therefore taking away the main reason people will actually register. So while the stats look great - it doesn't necessarily correlate with actual numbers of people without jobs.

That's all. I didn't even mention Bush. Not saying he hasn't done something - just that unemployment statistics are always suspect, more so when they are wheeled out before an election campaign.

How many more short-n-curly's you got left to split?

[Donna A 4]

all i know is when a democrat is in office i am working tons of overtime and when a republican is in im layed off most of the time.

also....why is it mexico has been getting all our jobs there and then the illegals are getting all our jobs here. whats the deal?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Bashing aside – I’ve always skeptical about unemployment statistics (from any source) as they often bear little correlation to those actually “out of work”.

As long as the way of measuring the statistics is always the same it doesnt matter, the point is if you want to work you can find a job.

Not saying you can't - just that "unemployed" is not the same as "out of work". Unemployed usually requires some sort of registration with a benefits agency, doesn't it?

If I remember correctly Tony Blair promised and delivered a massive reduction in the numbers of unemployed people about 2-3 years ago I believe. How did he do this? By making it harder to get unemployment welfare - therefore taking away the main reason people will actually register. So while the stats look great - it doesn't necessarily correlate with actual numbers of people without jobs.

That's all. I didn't even mention Bush. Not saying he hasn't done something - just that unemployment statistics are always suspect, more so when they are wheeled out before an election campaign.

How many more short-n-curly's you got left to split?

What "specifically" was hair-splitting about what I wrote?

[Carol&Marc 0]

As long as the way of measuring the statistics is always the same it doesnt matter, the point is if you want to work you can find a job.

If I remember correctly Tony Blair promised and delivered a massive reduction in the numbers of unemployed people about 2-3 years ago I believe. How did he do this? By making it harder to get unemployment welfare - therefore taking away the main reason people will actually register. So while the stats look great - it doesn't necessarily correlate with actual numbers of people without jobs.

That's all. I didn't even mention Bush. Not saying he hasn't done something - just that unemployment statistics are always suspect, more so when they are wheeled out before an election campaign.

Not saying you can't - just that "unemployed" is not the same as "out of work". Unemployed usually requires some sort of registration with a benefits agency, doesn't it?

Out of work and unemployed are exactly the same. If you work for a certain amount of hours in a specified quarter, then you are eligible for benefits. The amount is based on how much you earned, of course you must apply. At that point your a tick in the out of work unemployed group. When your bennies run out your still in that group! when you return to work you fill out a I-9 which tells the government you have been hired.

Splitting hairs? You fell into this thing about Tony Blair doing mass reductions. ####### does Tony Blair got to do with U.S. unemployment? ALL MY POST said was when you measure something the same way over and over matching it against eachother gives you an Iidea of whats going on.

Edited November 4, 2006 by Carol&Marc

[one...two...tree 2,762]

also....why is it mexico has been getting all our jobs there and then the illegals are getting all our jobs here. whats the deal?

You can thank NAFTA for that.

[Carol&Marc 0]

also....why is it mexico has been getting all our jobs there and then the illegals are getting all our jobs here. whats the deal?

You can thank NAFTA for that.

The flood of illegals has slowed to a trickle? NAFTA has been around how long? All the jobs went to mexico?

why is it mexico has been getting ALL our jobs there.

then the illegals are getting ALL our jobs here.

WOW, I am confused! you probably need to decide what ALL means?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

also....why is it mexico has been getting all our jobs there and then the illegals are getting all our jobs here. whats the deal?

You can thank NAFTA for that.

The flood of illegals has slowed to a trickle? NAFTA has been around how long? All the jobs went to mexico?

why is it mexico has been getting ALL our jobs there.

then the illegals are getting ALL our jobs here.

WOW, I am confused! you probably need to decide what ALL means?

(from Economist's View)

Mexico has shed nearly 30% of its farm jobs since the trade pact went into effect, according to government statistics. That translates into 2.8 million farmers and millions more of their dependents fleeing their fields. Some have taken subsistence jobs in Mexico's cities, but many have relocated to the U.S. ....

NAFTA experts say negotiators from Mexico and the U.S. knew that rural families ... would be hard hit by the trade deal. The bet was that many of them would find work in Mexico's burgeoning maquiladora export factories. But ... Mexico has lost more than four times as many farm jobs over the last 12 years as it gained in export manufacturing positions, in part because of relentless competition from China...

http://economistsview.typepad.com/economis..._and_illeg.html

NAFTA was sold to the American public as the magic formula that would improve the American economy at the same time it would raise up the impoverished Mexican economy. The time has come to look at the failures of this type of trade agreement before we engage in more and lower the economic prospects of all workers affected.

While there has been some media coverage of NAFTA's ruinous impact on US industrial communities, there has been even less media attention paid to its catastrophic effects in Mexico:

* NAFTA, by permitting heavily-subsidized US corn and other agri-business products to compete with small Mexican farmers, has driven the Mexican farmer off the land due to low-priced imports of US corn and other agricultural products. Some 2 million Mexicans have been forced out of agriculture, and many of those that remain are living in desperate poverty. These people are among those that cross the border to feed their families. (Meanwhile, corn-based tortilla prices climbed by 50%. No wonder many so Mexican peasants have called NAFTA their 'death warrant.'

* NAFTA's service-sector rules allowed big firms like Wal-Mart to enter the Mexican market and, selling low-priced goods made by ultra-cheap labor in China, to displace locally-based shoe, toy, and candy firms. An estimated 28,000 small and medium-sized Mexican businesses have been eliminated.

* Wages along the Mexican border have actually been driven down by about 25% since NAFTA, reported a Carnegie Endowment study. An over-supply of workers, combined with the crushing of union organizing drives as government policy, has resulted in sweatshop pay running sweatshops along the border where wages typically run 60 cents to $1 an hour.

So rather than improving living standards, Mexican wages have actually fallen since NAFTA. The initial growth in the number of jobs has leveled off, with China's even more repressive labor system luring US firms to locate there instead.

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0425-30.htm

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Out of work and unemployed are exactly the same. If you work for a certain amount of hours in a specified quarter, then you are eligible for benefits. The amount is based on how much you earned, of course you must apply. At that point your a tick in the out of work unemployed group. When your bennies run out your still in that group! when you return to work you fill out a I-9 which tells the government you have been hired.

Splitting hairs? You fell into this thing about Tony Blair doing mass reductions. ####### does Tony Blair got to do with U.S. unemployment? ALL MY POST said was when you measure something the same way over and over matching it against eachother gives you an Iidea of whats going on.

And I gave you an example of how unemployment statistics can be deceiving. That's all. Got any more hair-splitting to do?

[PlatyPius 5]

I only pay attention to how it applies to me.

I can't find a decent-paying IT job in the Indianapolis area. (Decent-paying = $16.00 and over)

Foxconn fired 100 workers from 2nd shift and 40 from 3rd shift 2 days ago. This is after they fired 300 a couple of months ago. We have 8 production lines, and they only build on 2 of them on 3rd shift now. Last weekend they closed the factory down for 2 days because there wasn't anything to do. Luckily, I'm off weekends.

For those who don't know who Foxconn is, it's a Chinese company with an exclusive contract with HP/Compaq to supply their parts and build their computers. (They also build Apple products, provide motherboards for Dell and Gateway, and a billion other things) The factory where I work builds computers for corporations; the home versions of HP/Compaqs are built in China. Some of the customers we build for are the US Air Force, Toys R Us, NASA, Compucom, etc.

No orders from corporate customers = no work for us. When the economy is bad, companies don't buy new computers. Seems like a pretty good indicator to me.

I'm desperately trying to get moved to 2nd shift, as it seems likely that 3rd shift will be going away soon. Will actually be able to spend time with Sian that way, too.

Indiana's unemployment is horrible at the moment. I'd like to know where all of these great new jobs are.....

Edited November 4, 2006 by PlatyPius