Shooting death of black teen puts Florida law back under spotlight

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Your state would love to have the crime rate statistics we have. I'll go with that, and raise my family here.

I'm not hating on a low crime state, I'm saying that maybe your low crime stats come from not having any low income area, rather than everyone carrying heat.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Maybe it's because of where you are from as well, I've looked up Vermont, you have virtually no minorities living there. Like less than 2%. I find it odd that in Florida, within the last 8 months there has been at least 3 cases when white men have killed black men and there are always 3 defining factors: the ones who felt "threatened" were the ones who started the fight; the people who were "menacing" were all men of color, and the ones that lost their lives were the ones who were unarmed. I don't meant to sound rude but does Vermont even have bad areas? Maybe that's why you have a polite society.

The west side of Winooski (North Burlington suburb) is virtually 100% African American. Virtually no crime. Barre and Rutland are infested with crack and methamphetamines and have the highest rates of prescription drug addiction in the northeast. But no violent crime. We have a virtually unprotected international border heavily used by drug smugglers...and no violent crime.

Vermont has NEVER had a police officer killed by gunfire and only three in its history ever killed on duty, all accidents.

we are the envy of the western world with our miniscule crime rate, Scotland is sodom and gomorrah by comparison! They should issue toruist advisories in Montreal by comparison. And you and Big Dog and some others, particularly those ignorant of firems, cannot do anything but make stupid masculinity jokes.

MY children can walk on any street in this state at any time of the day or night and be safe. That is a tremendous level of freedom and peace of mind.

You make jokes, I will stay here.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

It does not have to be race. The real issue is areas of chronic, high unemployment. Why that is related to high crime can be debated but it is a known correlation. Low income is a hell of a lot better than NO income!

I would like to hear MARVIN relate our low crime to lack of minorities. That is exactly what he said.

Please Marvin, we await your explanation of why Vermont has low crime due to less than 2% minorities.

[Ban Hammer 13,570]

Vermont has as many or more low income people as other states. In fact it is almost exactly average in that regard.

You said MINORITY, not low income.

Stop the racism Marvin. Discuss the topic or move on please, I cannot tolerate racism

gary, stop berating members or i'll dig out the ban hammer.

[james&olya 1,121]

Vermont has as many or more low income people as other states. In fact it is almost exactly average in that regard.

You said MINORITY, not low income.

Stop the racism Marvin. Discuss the topic or move on please, I cannot tolerate racism

Another possible explanation has to do with population density. Aside from the stress involved with living in crowded big cities, there is an anonymity there that is lost when you live in a smaller community. That anonymity removes some of the social inhibition to committing a crime. Knowing that friends, neighbors, relatives or fellow church-goers might be witness to your crime can be a major deterrent.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Please be specific as to what that means. Specific, Please. I am tempted to report this as simply racist trash as you have posted many times before but I will give you one opportunity to tell me WHY you blame crime on minorities that is NOT racist before I report this.

Vermont has NO bad areas because ANYONE can carry a gun ANY WHERE. Which area would you expect to be bad? Please be specific on what "bad" means.

High crime? NO, there is virtually no crime in the state. Low income? YES. Is that BAD?

What is BAD Marvin?

Marvin you have made very racist posts in the past, please tell us what exactly are you saying

I think it's funny you are the only person who finds my posts racist so let's go over this again shall we?

So to be sure you're saying that the reason you have no bad areas because everyone can carry a gun? So a bad economy wouldn't have anything to do with it. Wow, what world do you live in? In St. Louis, I know more than a few people that carry a gun but guess what, they are still struggling. By your logic if you gave everyone a piece we'd all get along just fine. Tell that to the folks who lost their friends and families to James Holmes, and anyone who has gone through a killing where someone went in and started shooting. I made my comment because the last 3 stand your ground cases have been men who have been so scared of black teenage boys that they drew their weapons on them and kiled them. FACT: None of those kids were armed. FACT: Each man felt the need to confront these kids, even through they were scared of them. FACT: Each person who felt "threatened" was carrying a gun on them at the time.

Now to be fair I made my comment because you say it never happens in Vermont, and I see why, as the 2012 Census says, you have 1.1% percent of Blacks living in your entire state. So I'll guess that if stand your ground would happen it would be white on white more often than not. The reason the law is under scrutiny is because once again, a black teenager has lost his life while the man who felt his life was in danger had the gun AND initiated the contact.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Another possible explanation has to do with population density. Aside from the stress involved with living in crowded big cities, there is an anonymity there that is lost when you live in a smaller community. That anonymity removes some of the social inhibition to committing a crime. Knowing that friends, neighbors, relatives or fellow church-goers might be witness to your crime can be a major deterrent.

I would like to hear Marvin explain about minorities.

Quebec has a population 15 times LESS dense than Vermont, bans concealed carry and has crime 3 times higher.

Crime rate is per 100,000 population. Vemront is not a low population density state. It has low population and small area. Our population density is higher than many other states, probably higher than the UP of Michigan

Concealed firearms prevent crime in Vermont.

Our Liberal Democrat gun carrying Governor gets an A+ from the NRA.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I would like to hear MARVIN relate our low crime to lack of minorities. That is exactly what he said.

Please Marvin, we await your explanation of why Vermont has low crime due to less than 2% minorities.

Ok, let me be clear on something Gary, I AM BLACK. I never said you had low crime because of the minorities not being there, I was making a comparison to why these crimes keep happening to black people. If you have virtually no minorities in your state then this would never happen. You have the luxury of living somewhere there is almost no crime and you attribute this to everyone having a firearm. I think it's because you have a good economy. It has nothing to do with giving everyone the right to carry a gun, if you applied this theory to everywhere in the world you'd have more dead bodies. According to the U.S. Civil Rights Commission, which launched an investigation into "Stand your ground" laws earlier this year, reports of justifiable homicides have nearly doubled from 2005 to 2011 in states where the legislation passed. While white killers of black victims comprise only 3.1 percent of all homicides, these cross-racial killings constitute 15.6 percent of justifiable homicides. My point was you won't see this in Vermont because you have so little minorities there it wouldn't be a race crime. But somehow you overlooked that part and honed in on the racist part, like you always do.

And another thing, dude we get it, I know you must be really proud that you have a nice looking wife and you sleep naked with her all the time, but do you really have to let us know every time you post? You're not the only one who loves his spouse.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I would like to hear Marvin explain about minorities.

Quebec has a population 15 times LESS dense than Vermont, bans concealed carry and has crime 3 times higher.

Crime rate is per 100,000 population. Vemront is not a low population density state. It has low population and small area. Our population density is higher than many other states, probably higher than the UP of Michigan

Concealed firearms prevent crime in Vermont.

Our Liberal Democrat gun carrying Governor gets an A+ from the NRA.

I've said what I needed to about my above posts, now let's hear your answer.

[james&olya 1,121]

I would like to hear Marvin explain about minorities.

Quebec has a population 15 times LESS dense than Vermont, bans concealed carry and has crime 3 times higher.

Crime rate is per 100,000 population. Vemront is not a low population density state. It has low population and small area. Our population density is higher than many other states, probably higher than the UP of Michigan

Concealed firearms prevent crime in Vermont.

Our Liberal Democrat gun carrying Governor gets an A+ from the NRA.

Quebec's population density is of less relevance than the population density of its larger cities!

Community size does matter as one of many factors.

The UP has very low population density, very small communities, low concealed carry rates, and exceedingly low crime. The police blotters here are almost entirely alcohol and minor domestic dispute related. Most doors remain unlocked. Many leave keys in their vehicles. We have minorities though not a lot. Detroit, in the same state, has very high crime. What does it all prove? I suppose you could twist it into 'proof' of a lot of different things if you wanted to.

Edited November 30, 2012 by james&olya

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I think it's funny you are the only person who finds my posts racist so let's go over this again shall we?

So to be sure you're saying that the reason you have no bad areas because everyone can carry a gun? So a bad economy wouldn't have anything to do with it. Wow, what world do you live in? In St. Louis, I know more than a few people that carry a gun but guess what, they are still struggling. By your logic if you gave everyone a piece we'd all get along just fine. Tell that to the folks who lost their friends and families to James Holmes, and anyone who has gone through a killing where someone went in and started shooting. I made my comment because the last 3 stand your ground cases have been men who have been so scared of black teenage boys that they drew their weapons on them and kiled them. FACT: None of those kids were armed. FACT: Each man felt the need to confront these kids, even through they were scared of them. FACT: Each person who felt "threatened" was carrying a gun on them at the time.

Now to be fair I made my comment because you say it never happens in Vermont, and I see why, as the 2012 Census says, you have 1.1% percent of Blacks living in your entire state. So I'll guess that if stand your ground would happen it would be white on white more often than not. The reason the law is under scrutiny is because once again, a black teenager has lost his life while the man who felt his life was in danger had the gun AND initiated the contact.

Links to everything please. blah blah blah

Links to Vermont having a good economy. Links to information regarding income, unemployment or any other excuse you made.

You have provided no data but once again finish with the statement that it is is racially based. If no one else can figure out what that means it is no reflection on me.

FACT: Anyone in Vermont can carry concealed handguns

FACT: Crime is extremely low in Vermont, usually the lowest in the country

Provide an explanation that does NOT involve firearms and THEN state how to fix that problem in your state WITH a firearms law.

It never fails, the people that want gun laws will blame crime on everything BUT guns...population density, unemployment, income levels, poverty, even race

And THEN suggest a "gun law" to fix it.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Links to everything please. blah blah blah

Links to Vermont having a good economy. Links to information regarding income, unemployment or any other excuse you made.

You have provided no data but once again finish with the statement that it is is racially based. If no one else can figure out what that means it is no reflection on me.

FACT: Anyone in Vermont can carry concealed handguns

FACT: Crime is extremely low in Vermont, usually the lowest in the country

Provide an explanation that does NOT involve firearms and THEN state how to fix that problem in your state WITH a firearms law.

It never fails, the people that want gun laws will blame crime on everything BUT guns...population density, unemployment, income levels, poverty, even race

And THEN suggest a "gun law" to fix it.

[/quot

I love how you respond to what you want to see. There's nothing racist about what I said. I pointed it out because it hurts when i see people killed over trivial things and being black it hits close to home. But i guess you will never see this.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

A further number of off topic posts have been removed. Gary, stop it. You are derailing the topic. This is a discussion about a shooting in Florida and the claim for a 'stand your ground' defense. Stop taking the thread elsewhere. This is the second warning to stay on topic. Any further posts that derail this subject and do not discuss the actual topic presented in the first post will be removed and the poster thread-banned. If you wish to discuss the justification of having firearms, then start a separate thread.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

gary, stop berating members or i'll dig out the ban hammer.

P.S. my wife said to tell you thank you and you will be getting a C Card. It was the best 3 days of her life.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

P.S. my wife said to tell you thank you and you will be getting a C Card. It was the best 3 days of her life.

I was wondering where you went to, thought by now you would have jumped in and got the business