Shooting death of black teen puts Florida law back under spotlight

[decocker 7,198]

So if I roll up in front of the local convenience store with a 200 watt stero, and rattle the windows of the store with some raunchy David Allen Coe hits, then it's all good right ?

i wouldn't expect anyone to shoot you for your taste in music.

it can be annoying to anyone to be forced to listen to loud music when it's not your personal choice. it's also annoying to hear cherry bombs or drag racing. it's annoying to be in the supermarket and have to listen to a mother scream at her toddlers being toddlers. point is, civilized people do not end a life in order to be less 'annoyed'.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Well, I always have a gun on me and I would simply have gone elsewhere to get gas. My handgun is protect myself, my family from threats to our life. Loud, offensive music is not a threat to my life. It is an annoyance. I prefer to avoid annoyances.

If the youths had a shotgun and pointed it at him, he will walk away on this. You know it.

While the facts have yet to be played out in court, media accounts present a stark and troubling picture. As Davis hung out with friends earlier this month, sitting in the backseat of an SUV parked outside a convenience store, 45-year-old Michael David Dunn pulled up to the vehicle and asked them to turn down their music. After an argument ensued, Dunn pulled a weapon and fired at least eight times, striking Davis twice. The teen died when he got to a hospital. Investigators say there is no indication that he or the other students inside the SUV had any weapons.

I am trained on a few weapons, but I will ask the gun experts, how long would it take to fire the shotgun if there was one in the car? If it was pointed at him, he would have had to been lightning quick to get 8-9 shots off and they couldn't even get one in from the shotgun.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

So if I roll up in front of the local convenience store with a 200 watt stero, and rattle the windows of the store with some raunchy David Allen Coe hits, then it's all good right ?

I do agree with the point that stand your ground could go either way in this case.

Personally I hate rap music now, it's too much vulgarity, obscenities, and nonsense. I'm a 70's kid that grew up when MTV was cool and music had some substance. My favs were the Police, Men at work, The Clash, Joe Jackson, to name a few.

Here is the problem with SYG in Florida, it seems like people are all to ready to confront folks with weapons ready and then go stand your ground when they are losing and have to pull a gun. If people were held accountable, then maybe they wouldn't be so quick to initiate a confrontation.

[james&olya 1,121]

While the facts have yet to be played out in court, media accounts present a stark and troubling picture. As Davis hung out with friends earlier this month, sitting in the backseat of an SUV parked outside a convenience store, 45-year-old Michael David Dunn pulled up to the vehicle and asked them to turn down their music. After an argument ensued, Dunn pulled a weapon and fired at least eight times, striking Davis twice. The teen died when he got to a hospital. Investigators say there is no indication that he or the other students inside the SUV had any weapons.

I am trained on a few weapons, but I will ask the gun experts, how long would it take to fire the shotgun if there was one in the car? If it was pointed at him, he would have had to been lightning quick to get 8-9 shots off and they couldn't even get one in from the shotgun.

Also, all that gunfire no doubt drew a lot of attention. Unless the teens drove off out of sight of witnesses it is very unlikely they could have disposed of a weapon without witnesses seeing it!

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Don't you see that as a major problem with a law like this, that it might justify both parties to a confrontation to draw weapons and begin firing?!!!

No, I do not see it as that. In what state without "stand your ground" could you not use deadly force against someone pointing a gun at you?

Florida's crime rate has decreased dramatically since concealed carry and "stand your ground" which would indicate with 30 years of experience, that what you fear is simply not the case.

Also bear in mind that while Florida has one of the highest percentages of licensed concealed carry permits per capita it STILL has only about 3% of the population authorized to carry handguns. Vermont has 100% authorized for concealed carry and this stuff just does not happen. According to your logic there should be, at least, DAILY showdowns on Church St. in Burlington...MILFs shooting at each other in the "Kiss the Cook" shop, and drive bys at Dakin Farms Cheese Shop every hour on the hour.

Doesn't happen

what you have here is a case of the music police, kind of like the "engine idling police" or the "smoking to close to the door police" or the "parking for customers with children only police" (HEY...I have children! They drive their own cars, but I HAVE children)who confronted some yoots who weren't going to be told what to do by an old white #### so they leveled a (probably unloaded) shotgun at him and ...bad decisions all around

I think, probably a small percentage of people with concealed firearms is not always good. It helps, but there is simply not enough of them to create an overall polite society. I think we need to dump the concealed carry permits and just allow any person to carry concealed like in Vermont. The result is a polite society.

It could have something to do with pervasive marijuana use also...just sayin'

[Ban Hammer 13,407]

I am trained on a few weapons, but I will ask the gun experts, how long would it take to fire the shotgun if there was one in the car? If it was pointed at him, he would have had to been lightning quick to get 8-9 shots off and they couldn't even get one in from the shotgun.

are you asking how long it would take to orient it and fire it within the vehicle, or to take it out of the vehicle, orient, and fire?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Also, all that gunfire no doubt drew a lot of attention. Unless the teens drove off out of sight of witnesses it is very unlikely they could have disposed of a weapon without witnesses seeing it!

Even so, then this is simply a hot head who capped some black teens...MURDER...how is it related to "stand your ground"? I mean this is flat out homicide or it is justified self defense. I do not even see "stand your ground" as a defense in this case.

[james&olya 1,121]

No, I do not see it as that. In what state without "stand your ground" could you not use deadly force against someone pointing a gun at you?

Every state! There has to be more to the story than just a gun pointed at you to even begin to justify firing back at them. I could come up with all kinds of examples but I will give you 2.

1. You are at the scene of a suspected crime and a police officer arrives and points his gun at you!

2. You are at the home of a friend and the 6 year old with ADD picks up a gun and points it in various directions grinning and saying "bang, bang"!

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

While the facts have yet to be played out in court, media accounts present a stark and troubling picture. As Davis hung out with friends earlier this month, sitting in the backseat of an SUV parked outside a convenience store, 45-year-old Michael David Dunn pulled up to the vehicle and asked them to turn down their music. After an argument ensued, Dunn pulled a weapon and fired at least eight times, striking Davis twice. The teen died when he got to a hospital. Investigators say there is no indication that he or the other students inside the SUV had any weapons.

I am trained on a few weapons, but I will ask the gun experts, how long would it take to fire the shotgun if there was one in the car? If it was pointed at him, he would have had to been lightning quick to get 8-9 shots off and they couldn't even get one in from the shotgun.

IF there was a shotgun, my guess is that these Einsteins had it as a threat for ol' white f*cks and didn't load it, which makes them even more stupid than him. If the gun was loaded and in a position to be easily handled it could be fired very quickly, within 3-4 seconds tops.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

are you asking how long it would take to orient it and fire it within the vehicle, or to take it out of the vehicle, orient, and fire?

Firing within the vehicle, the kids never made it out of the car.

[Ban Hammer 13,407]

Firing within the vehicle, the kids never made it out of the car.

depending on which way this imaginary shotgun would be pointed, it could be a few seconds if it was already oriented towards the shooter, or it could take as long as 10 seconds if pointed away from the shooter.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Every state! There has to be more to the story than just a gun pointed at you to even begin to justify firing back at them. I could come up with all kinds of examples but I will give you 2.

1. You are at the scene of a suspected crime and a police officer arrives and points his gun at you!

2. You are at the home of a friend and the 6 year old with ADD picks up a gun and points it in various directions grinning and saying "bang, bang"!

James...

In what state would THIS incident NOT be justifiable homicide IF the yoots pointed a shotgun at him. If you cannot answer, then say so. Making up fantasies doesn't count.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

No, I do not see it as that. In what state without "stand your ground" could you not use deadly force against someone pointing a gun at you?

Florida's crime rate has decreased dramatically since concealed carry and "stand your ground" which would indicate with 30 years of experience, that what you fear is simply not the case.

Also bear in mind that while Florida has one of the highest percentages of licensed concealed carry permits per capita it STILL has only about 3% of the population authorized to carry handguns. Vermont has 100% authorized for concealed carry and this stuff just does not happen. According to your logic there should be, at least, DAILY showdowns on Church St. in Burlington...MILFs shooting at each other in the "Kiss the Cook" shop, and drive bys at Dakin Farms Cheese Shop every hour on the hour.

Doesn't happen

what you have here is a case of the music police, kind of like the "engine idling police" or the "smoking to close to the door police" or the "parking for customers with children only police" (HEY...I have children! They drive their own cars, but I HAVE children)who confronted some yoots who weren't going to be told what to do by an old white #### so they leveled a (probably unloaded) shotgun at him and ...bad decisions all around

I think, probably a small percentage of people with concealed firearms is not always good. It helps, but there is simply not enough of them to create an overall polite society. I think we need to dump the concealed carry permits and just allow any person to carry concealed like in Vermont. The result is a polite society.

It could have something to do with pervasive marijuana use also...just sayin'

Maybe it's because of where you are from as well, I've looked up Vermont, you have virtually no minorities living there. Like less than 2%. I find it odd that in Florida, within the last 8 months there has been at least 3 cases when white men have killed black men and there are always 3 defining factors: the ones who felt "threatened" were the ones who started the fight; the people who were "menacing" were all men of color, and the ones that lost their lives were the ones who were unarmed. I don't meant to sound rude but does Vermont even have bad areas? Maybe that's why you have a polite society.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Maybe it's because of where you are from as well, I've looked up Vermont, you have virtually no minorities living there. Like less than 2%. I find it odd that in Florida, within the last 8 months there has been at least 3 cases when white men have killed black men and there are always 3 defining factors: the ones who felt "threatened" were the ones who started the fight; the people who were "menacing" were all men of color, and the ones that lost their lives were the ones who were unarmed. I don't meant to sound rude but does Vermont even have bad areas? Maybe that's why you have a polite society.

Please be specific as to what that means. Specific, Please. I am tempted to report this as simply racist trash as you have posted many times before but I will give you one opportunity to tell me WHY you blame crime on minorities that is NOT racist before I report this.

Vermont has NO bad areas because ANYONE can carry a gun ANY WHERE. Which area would you expect to be bad? Please be specific on what "bad" means.

High crime? NO, there is virtually no crime in the state. Low income? YES. Is that BAD?

What is BAD Marvin?

Marvin you have made very racist posts in the past, please tell us what exactly are you saying

[james&olya 1,121]

Please be specific as to what that means. Specific, Please. I am tempted to report this as simply racist trash as you have posted many times before but I will give you one opportunity to tell me WHY you blame crime on minorities that is NOT racist before I report this.

Vermont has NO bad areas because ANYONE can carry a gun ANY WHERE. Which area would you expect to be bad? Please be specific on what "bad" means.

High crime? NO, there is virtually no crime in the state. Low income? YES. Is that BAD?

What is BAD Marvin?

Marvin you have made very racist posts in the past, please tell us what exactly are you saying

It does not have to be race. The real issue is areas of chronic, high unemployment. Why that is related to high crime can be debated but it is a known correlation. Low income is a hell of a lot better than NO income!