Shooting death of black teen puts Florida law back under spotlight

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Unlike the Zimmerman - Martin ordeal which was an obvious case of self defense imo, this fella in the OP looks like he just might be guilty of murder.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I am sure that for some, when they say 'Buy ammo' they are hoping the day comes they can do on a widespread basis what this Florida shooter did!

Except for Alla's target ammo I have enough for several lifetimes now and do not need to buy more.

I guess I am surprised as despite that fact that 100% of Vermonters are legally empowered to be armed, things like this do not happen. Weird I guess. Some people have difficulty with freedom, it is true.

He showed bad judgment (the shooter) I think by not just driving on. I am guessing at the music (s0me may say a racist guess) but yeah, it offends me enough to just drive on to where I don't have to listen to booming tunes calling women "ho's" and sluts and other things that people will defend here (who claim to not hate women)

However, despite bad judgement, if the youths (yoots...gotta love "My Cousin Vinny") did, in fact produce a shotgun, that would make this justifiable and Evylin doesn't have to like it

Myself, being a responsible armed person (I am wearing a .45 ACP on my belt as I type this...hey I have to go out to the grocery tonight and it is cold and I will wear my heavy coat which means Dad's 1911 .45 ACP, AKA "ol' Loudmouf" gets to go for a walk tonight) I woulda just passed on the whole thing, got my gas elsewhere.

Again, no trial yet and too soon for any facts. If the boys pointed shotgun the shooter will walk away. Period.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Unlike the Zimmerman - Martin ordeal which was an obvious case of self defense imo, this fella in the OP looks like he just might be guilty of murder.

If they did not have a gun, oh yeah. But this has nothing to do with Florida's law really. If they had a gun it is justifiable shooting almost anywhere and if not then it is just murder. Nothing unique regarding Florida's law here.

I do no tsee this as a case where "stand your gound" would be considered flawed.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Except for Alla's target ammo I have enough for several lifetimes now and do not need to buy more.

I guess I am surprised as despite that fact that 100% of Vermonters are legally empowered to be armed, things like this do not happen. Weird I guess. Some people have difficulty with freedom, it is true.

He showed bad judgment (the shooter) I think by not just driving on. I am guessing at the music (s0me may say a racist guess) but yeah, it offends me enough to just drive on to where I don't have to listen to booming tunes calling women "ho's" and sluts and other things that people will defend here (who claim to not hate women)

However, despite bad judgement, if the youths (yoots...gotta love "My Cousin Vinny") did, in fact produce a shotgun, that would make this justifiable and Evylin doesn't have to like it

Myself, being a responsible armed person (I am wearing a .45 ACP on my belt as I type this...hey I have to go out to the grocery tonight and it is cold and I will wear my heavy coat which means Dad's 1911 .45 ACP, AKA "ol' Loudmouf" gets to go for a walk tonight) I woulda just passed on the whole thing, got my gas elsewhere.

Again, no trial yet and too soon for any facts. If the boys pointed shotgun the shooter will walk away. Period.

But here's the thing, no one said the music was offensive, just loud. But it seems like the consensus here is since it's young black teens it had to be cursing and disrespectful. If someone rolled up playing country at full volume it would irritate the sleeves off of me, but I wouldn't confront them. I would just pump my gas and move one. But this seems to be the case when people want to be brave when they have a gun on them, cause if he didn't we wouldn't be reading about it.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Su and Marvin

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Unlike the Zimmerman - Martin ordeal which was an obvious case of self defense imo, this fella in the OP looks like he just might be guilty of murder.

How can it be self defense when he followed Martin?

[scotinmass 588]

How can it be self defense when he followed Martin?

They think that because he was black. No other reason. That's as far as some people can see.

[scotinmass 588]

Except for Alla's target ammo I have enough for several lifetimes now and do not need to buy more.

I guess I am surprised as despite that fact that 100% of Vermonters are legally empowered to be armed, things like this do not happen. Weird I guess. Some people have difficulty with freedom, it is true.

He showed bad judgment (the shooter) I think by not just driving on. I am guessing at the music (s0me may say a racist guess) but yeah, it offends me enough to just drive on to where I don't have to listen to booming tunes calling women "ho's" and sluts and other things that people will defend here (who claim to not hate women)

However, despite bad judgement, if the youths (yoots...gotta love "My Cousin Vinny") did, in fact produce a shotgun, that would make this justifiable and Evylin doesn't have to like it

Myself, being a responsible armed person (I am wearing a .45 ACP on my belt as I type this...hey I have to go out to the grocery tonight and it is cold and I will wear my heavy coat which means Dad's 1911 .45 ACP, AKA "ol' Loudmouf" gets to go for a walk tonight) I woulda just passed on the whole thing, got my gas elsewhere.

Again, no trial yet and too soon for any facts. If the boys pointed shotgun the shooter will walk away. Period.

What kind of scaredy cat has to wear a gun to go to Hannafords in Vermont?

[james&olya 1,121]

If they did not have a gun, oh yeah. But this has nothing to do with Florida's law really. If they had a gun it is justifiable shooting almost anywhere and if not then it is just murder. Nothing unique regarding Florida's law here.

I do no tsee this as a case where "stand your gound" would be considered flawed.

This case may not be that radically different than the other in some ways. If the boys had a weapon or somehow caused the shooter to believe they did, that still does not by itself justify this homicide. The reason is that, loud music aside, this shooter apparently initiated the confrontation and drew a weapon on the boys. THEY may have had grounds to invoke 'stand your ground'! The laws must apply equally to all citizens whether they be white or black, country music, classical music, or even hip-hop 'music' lovers, young, old, male, female, whatever. You gun nuts out there, put yourself in the shoes of these boys for a minute. You are minding your own business at a gas station, enjoying what you think is music everybody should love when somebody looking angry from a different ethnicity approaches you armed with a gun. What do you do? Do you sit there and take the bullets? These boys did! Would you be a bit offended if law enforcement gave him a pass on it because you had a weapon that you never fired? I doubt it! The only question is whether you would be satisfied at arrest, trial, and a death penalty verdict!

[scotinmass 588]

I can see how shooting at targets could be fun but I don't get people who feel they have to carry one for self defense. There would be a lot less spontaneous murders and lives ruined if nobody was carrying a weapon. It's easy to feel like a big tough man with a gun on your belt but without it most people would walk away and avoid confrontation.

Edited November 30, 2012 by Kathryn41
to remove off topic quote

[SMOKE 1,426]

I can see how shooting at targets could be fun but I don't get people who feel they have to carry one for self defense. There would be a lot less spontaneous murders and lives ruined if nobody was carrying a weapon. It's easy to feel like a big tough man with a gun on your belt but without it most people would walk away and avoid confrontation.

i can't argue with that. a lot of people do get OT'd (over testosteroned) when they have a weapon. but, this is america & i just don't see gun laws changing that much.

[scotinmass 588]

i can't argue with that. a lot of people do get OT'd (over testosteroned) when they have a weapon. but, this is america & i just don't see gun laws changing that much.

When I'm in Maine I hear guns all the time and I've got used to people walking down the side of the road with a shotgun. I see deer and moose being butchered all over the place. Hunting is part of American life but that's as far as it should go with guns. Shooting for food not at each other.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

This case may not be that radically different than the other in some ways. If the boys had a weapon or somehow caused the shooter to believe they did, that still does not by itself justify this homicide. The reason is that, loud music aside, this shooter apparently initiated the confrontation and drew a weapon on the boys. THEY may have had grounds to invoke 'stand your ground'! The laws must apply equally to all citizens whether they be white or black, country music, classical music, or even hip-hop 'music' lovers, young, old, male, female, whatever. You gun nuts out there, put yourself in the shoes of these boys for a minute. You are minding your own business at a gas station, enjoying what you think is music everybody should love when somebody looking angry from a different ethnicity approaches you armed with a gun. What do you do? Do you sit there and take the bullets? These boys did! Would you be a bit offended if law enforcement gave him a pass on it because you had a weapon that you never fired? I doubt it! The only question is whether you would be satisfied at arrest, trial, and a death penalty verdict!

So if I roll up in front of the local convenience store with a 200 watt stero, and rattle the windows of the store with some raunchy David Allen Coe hits, then it's all good right ?

I do agree with the point that stand your ground could go either way in this case.

[james&olya 1,121]

So if I roll up in front of the local convenience store with a 200 watt stero, and rattle the windows of the store with some raunchy David Allen Coe hits, then it's all good right ?

I do agree with the point that stand your ground could go either way in this case.

I think that a more appropriate response if you are really that offended is to call the police to see if a warning or misdemeanor citation is warranted. Not every offensive behavior justifies firing a weapon or even threatening to do so. Can you at least agree with that?

[james&olya 1,121]

I do agree with the point that stand your ground could go either way in this case.

Don't you see that as a major problem with a law like this, that it might justify both parties to a confrontation to draw weapons and begin firing?!!!

Edited November 30, 2012 by james&olya

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

But here's the thing, no one said the music was offensive, just loud. But it seems like the consensus here is since it's young black teens it had to be cursing and disrespectful. If someone rolled up playing country at full volume it would irritate the sleeves off of me, but I wouldn't confront them. I would just pump my gas and move one. But this seems to be the case when people want to be brave when they have a gun on them, cause if he didn't we wouldn't be reading about it.

Well, I always have a gun on me and I would simply have gone elsewhere to get gas. My handgun is protect myself, my family from threats to our life. Loud, offensive music is not a threat to my life. It is an annoyance. I prefer to avoid annoyances.

If the youths had a shotgun and pointed it at him, he will walk away on this. You know it.