My instructor's rant

[Sarah Elle-Même 660]

In Gulf countries you're only unsafe if you're a minority activist (ahem... Bahrain). It's a terrible shame that legitimate democratic movements have been co-opted and in turn suppressed by religious zealots rising to fill the power vacuum. This has been the case (in varying degrees) in every "Arab Spring" country. And this instability will keep going on like this into the near future I think. At least until the power vacuum gets totally resealed again with a new despot. No... I'm not cynical at all . Lots of people try to give me their two-cents about my travels to far flung places. I got mad for a while in the beginning but now I chalk it up to their concerns for me, whether that concern is warranted/factual or not. I work in the humanitarian field so believe me I've been some really, really "bad" places

OP - It's exciting for sure to be seeing your husband. Best wishes and take care! I am also going to visit my fiance and my in-laws to-be at the end of next month and let's just say where I'm going is even less suitable for westerners at this point than anywhere in Egypt. But what's a girl to do? His student visa expired last year and he hasn't been able to get a tourist visa back to visit me and our last Jordan vacay was waaaaaay too expensive. Other people have offered good advice but I'd say have your ear to the ground and be as inconspicuous as possible. I'll be hiding behind a veil which will be much to Adnan's amusement since I can't bloody see with it on (I lack strong peripheral vision perhaps). Have an awesome time!

Edited November 28, 2012 by Sarah and Adnan

[RFQ 110]

No, I didn't say that at all. I was just sharing my experience of people's negatiave perceptions of MENA countries. I have been to Egypt several times with my husband, although not since the revolution. I was giving the OP encouragement that her trip should be just fine. Geesh!

And the OP appreciates it My girlfriends in Cairo don't go out at night alone and definitely don't loiter in inappropriate places, but they go about their lives per usual. Neither my husband, any of his scattered family, or my girlfriends, or their children voice any concerns about carrying on their daily lives. It will be fine, insha'Allah ofc, if general precautions are observed.

[RFQ 110]

In Gulf countries you're only unsafe if you're a minority activist (ahem... Bahrain). It's a terrible shame that legitimate democratic movements have been co-opted and in turn suppressed by religious zealots rising to fill the power vacuum. This has been the case (in varying degrees) in every "Arab Spring" country. And this instability will keep going on like this into the near future I think. At least until the power vacuum gets totally resealed again with a new despot. No... I'm not cynical at all . Lots of people try to give me their two-cents about my travels to far flung places. I got mad for a while in the beginning but now I chalk it up to their concerns for me, whether that concern is warranted/factual or not. I work in the humanitarian field so believe me I've been some really, really "bad" places

OP - It's exciting for sure to be seeing your husband. Best wishes and take care! I am also going to visit my fiance and my in-laws to-be at the end of next month and let's just say where I'm going is even less suitable for westerners at this point than anywhere in Egypt. But what's a girl to do? His student visa expired last year and he hasn't been able to get a tourist visa back to visit me and our last Jordan vacay was waaaaaay too expensive. Other people have offered good advice but I'd say have your ear to the ground and be as inconspicuous as possible. I'll be hiding behind a veil which will be much to Adnan's amusement since I can't bloody see with it on (I lack strong peripheral vision perhaps). Have an awesome time!

I was debating on niqab once I'm there. My husband doesn't think I will stand out unless I attempt to speak, haha. Though he says I get a bit pale this time of year and maybe I should go tan my face a lil. >.< If I do draw attention I will switch to niqab though. I think though, in his part of society I am actually as much or more conservatively dressed than many of the young women. Either way- I'll never be alone there. Everyone has dibs on me. I sincerely doubt they'll let me sleep.

My girlfriend is a very pale skinned American convert and her husband from a smaller village in Pakistan. She said people, particularly kids would just follow her around even while she was wearing niqab. Of course this is totally different than the environment I shall be in. I imagine that is unnerving!

I wish you as safe and blessed trip. And may peace come to the areas in turmoil and uncertainty

Edited November 28, 2012 by RFQ

[nurse1967 287]

I find it interesting how touchy and sensitive some people get when others are concerned about an American's safety at the present moment in Egypt. Are there less safe places for Americans in the world currently?? Probably. Does that mean everyone who is concerned about an American in Egypt right now is a bigot?? Definitely not. If you are sooooo secure with your own prowess and ability to travel in Egypt right now then ignore it and move on. I find it strange that the ones complaining about people's concern is always the American spouse and not the foreigner .Never once have I seen an Egyptian husband come here with these type of complaints all the while defending Egypt for it's safety. Watch TV. Read the newspapers. Speak to your husband's family about the current events. It is lawless in Egypt right now. If something happened to you God forbid, you would be totally on your own. The government nor police nor military are going to care what happens to you. When I was in Egypt in 2009 I felt COMPLETELY safe. Now, I wouldn't travel there with or without my husband. Period.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

REALLY? Isn't that just a bit insensitive?? I mean first of all my husband doesn't even live in the MIDDLE EAST. Second of all-- what does he know about it? It was okay when he first told me to be careful (on my upcoming trip), but then he got really incessant about how bad it is over there. I tried to explain a bit about say... how the protests in Cairo are pretty consolidated and the city has more people than our state x4, so the turmoil is rather small really. Its not like I'm going to the Sinai Peninsula border or anything. But every time I tried to enlighten him he stressed even stronger "You're AMERICAN."

He made it sound like t I'm American and that automatically mean everyone is on a witch hunt for me. I really resented that attitude, especially the unwillingness to here anything else.

Whadyya think? Am I being overly sensitive to the comments?

*edited misspellings*

I would just tell him that I appreciated his concern.

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

I think I'd still go back to Egypt for a visit but maybe not right now with everything happening recently. Last time I was in Egypt was in 2009 too and it certainly is a different world now. Even my Arabic professor that was living here in the States said she was concerned about going back to Egypt for this last summer vacation from the University because of the kidnappings and lawlessness she's heard about back home. That it's not just happening to foreigners but to Egyptians as well. They went as planned and during the summer they were outside of Cairo just south of it where her roots are from. After they learned about the visa re-issue issue they moved north of Cairo where her husband's roots are from. They're alright for the most part and haven't had much problems otherwise though she doesn't send me big long emails about the daily life.

Other friends I talk to that are living there seem to feel safe for the most part but they aren't going out a lot or as often as they used to. Some are thinking about coming back to the States while others are thinking of taking opportunities abroad elsewhere. Not many of them are planning to keep staying there if it keeps going the way it's going. I do hope everything settles down by the next ten to fifteen years. We're supposed to be retiring there sometime after that. Now that Egypt's changed I'm not certain what's going to happen with that plan but I guess we'll see. We've got a long ways to go until retirement. In the meantime my BIL is getting engaged and there is an upcoming wedding within the next year or two that we'll have to go back to Egypt for. Thankfully they're delaying it for a period because of everything that's going on so it gives us time to prepare and plan for the trip. There is also another BIL who is looking at the marriage possibility as well so it may be two wedding in the family to attend back in Egypt. I'm not sure I'm ready to fly again after they've installed those new full body scanners at airports throughout the States. Though I've heard they've modified the screens to only show outlines of people instead of the move invasive digital image. It still feels super intrusive to me but what else am I going to do about it when going back to Egypt for visits?

[Ihavequestions 419]

Here's a clue about your husband's country: Egyptians identify with Arabs, so much that the only time you will hear them talk about being African is when Egypt is playing in the African Cup. I'm not sure if it has to do with the common language, religion, and culture or what, but they just do.

I am curious about something. Exactly where is this one Utopian place in Egypt that has been left unscathed by the revolution? You know, that "environment" you mentioned? Please, tell me, what makes it so different than the rest of the country? Does someone actually answer the phone at the police station? Are there police at all, other than traffic cops (who hang out in groups because they're scared)? Do the police come when there's a situation, or do they wait until its over and come and take a report, which is what happens everywhere else? I'd like to know where this is.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Here's a clue about your husband's country: Egyptians identify with Arabs, so much that the only time you will hear them talk about being African is when Egypt is playing in the African Cup. I'm not sure if it has to do with the common language, religion, and culture or what, but they just do.

I am curious about something. Exactly where is this one Utopian place in Egypt that has been left unscathed by the revolution? You know, that "environment" you mentioned? Please, tell me, what makes it so different than the rest of the country? Does someone actually answer the phone at the police station? Are there police at all, other than traffic cops (who hang out in groups because they're scared)? Do the police come when there's a situation, or do they wait until its over and come and take a report, which is what happens everywhere else? I'd like to know where this is.

I d trust IHAVEQUESTIONS opinion over just about anyone elses. She actually lives there day in and day out.

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

I d trust IHAVEQUESTIONS opinion over just about anyone elses. She actually lives there day in and day out.

And for several years on and off.

Here's a clue about your husband's country: Egyptians identify with Arabs, so much that the only time you will hear them talk about being African is when Egypt is playing in the African Cup. I'm not sure if it has to do with the common language, religion, and culture or what, but they just do.

I am curious about something. Exactly where is this one Utopian place in Egypt that has been left unscathed by the revolution? You know, that "environment" you mentioned? Please, tell me, what makes it so different than the rest of the country? Does someone actually answer the phone at the police station? Are there police at all, other than traffic cops (who hang out in groups because they're scared)? Do the police come when there's a situation, or do they wait until its over and come and take a report, which is what happens everywhere else? I'd like to know where this is.

Come lets not scare the poor dear. Talk about the wedding parties going on in the street below your flat and good things too.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Dr. A ♥ O

[Ihavequestions 419]

I d trust IHAVEQUESTIONS opinion over just about anyone elses. She actually lives there day in and day out.

Yeah, I do. Good, bad, or indifferent, this is home. So much so that I have mastered two of the three qualifiers that will one day, if I want, let me "take the nationality": smoking sheesha "like a brofessional" and throwing a shoe with precision (that took a lot of practice). All that's left is learning to shop with a rope and basket, then I can apply. At least this is what my friends tell me.

Come lets not scare the poor dear. Talk about the wedding parties going on in the street below your flat and good things too.

OMG! Galabaya guy and the hairy chested table dancers! That was a hoot and a grin!

You're right. I should only talk about the good things. I'm not going to say a word about how, since there's no police protection, people have taken to solving their problems with their fists and weapons and revenge crimes amplify the carnage. So I won't mention the five murders, three in broad daylight, gun fights, kidnappings, armed robberies, and car jackings I've seen with my own two eyes. I'll keep that all to myself, just like I won't tell her that when people ask I lie and tell them my nationality is Canadian because that's the safe thing to do.

Maybe it's the "environment" I've been living in and I should move to another "environment"?

Nope. I'm not gonna do that because that won't change anything. Why? Because this place is like the mean streets of Detroit (or East St. Louis for that matter) sans police.

And denial isn't just a river in Egypt.

[Darnell 8,478]

back to the OP, post #1.

this is a class? you need a grade. don't p|ss off the instructor - class should be over soon.

get your grade and walk on.

just cause the teacher is an asshat, is no reason to take offense whilst he/she/it controls your grade.

get your grade, and forget about it.

[Staashi 371]

RFQ, all I have to say, is when you have to airlift Americans out because of the protests, lawlessness, and lack of services by the US Embassy, sh!t just got real.

But as is the case with so many American women married to MENA men on these boards, you believe that just because you've been to the region for a few weeks or months that you're an expert...it doesn't work that way. If IHQ is saying that the situation is a clusterf*ck, you can bet your azz that it is.

Edited November 30, 2012 by Staashi

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

Yeah, I do. Good, bad, or indifferent, this is home. So much so that I have mastered two of the three qualifiers that will one day, if I want, let me "take the nationality": smoking sheesha "like a brofessional" and throwing a shoe with precision (that took a lot of practice). All that's left is learning to shop with a rope and basket, then I can apply. At least this is what my friends tell me.

OMG! Galabaya guy and the hairy chested table dancers! That was a hoot and a grin!

You're right. I should only talk about the good things. I'm not going to say a word about how, since there's no police protection, people have taken to solving their problems with their fists and weapons and revenge crimes amplify the carnage. So I won't mention the five murders, three in broad daylight, gun fights, kidnappings, armed robberies, and car jackings I've seen with my own two eyes. I'll keep that all to myself, just like I won't tell her that when people ask I lie and tell them my nationality is Canadian because that's the safe thing to do.

Maybe it's the "environment" I've been living in and I should move to another "environment"?

Nope. I'm not gonna do that because that won't change anything. Why? Because this place is like the mean streets of Detroit (or East St. Louis for that matter) sans police.

And denial isn't just a river in Egypt.

Dang woman things must have changed a lot since just last month when I was talking with you. Remember I asked you how you were doing because I was worried about your safety and you told me everything was fine and while the economy was bad you were doing alright but you got a good job opportunity out of the country and you might take it. Are you still considering it because from the way you're describing things it sounds like maybe you should for your personal safety unless you like living in the mean streets of Detroit environment. Now I really wonder if the others living in Egypt are being straight with me too. They don't make it out to be as bad as this either. I still talk to people from the online foreign women's group that lives in Egypt. What part of Egypt are you in now?

RFQ, all I have to say, is when you have to airlift Americans out because of the protests, lawlessness, and lack of services by the US Embassy, sh!t just got real.

But as is the case with so many American women married to MENA men on these boards, you believe that just because you've been to the region for a few weeks or months that you're an expert...it doesn't work that way. If IHQ is saying that the situation is a clusterf*ck, you can bet your azz that it is.

The irony in this statement above is that some people who've never been to the region and have very little to do with it think they know better than those that have been and have years of experience with it.

Edited November 30, 2012 by Dr. A ♥ O

[RFQ 110]

I am not sure when this went from "my instructor called the entire whole of the middle east bad" to RFQ doesn't understand their are dangers in the area. Apparently I have never spoken to anyone that lives there or done any research and I have my hand buried in the sand is the topic of this post.

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

back to the OP, post #1.

this is a class? you need a grade. don't p|ss off the instructor - class should be over soon.

get your grade and walk on.

just cause the teacher is an asshat, is no reason to take offense whilst he/she/it controls your grade.

get your grade, and forget about it.

I think it's appropriate to take it back to the original point.

There is good and there is bad in Egypt. Raise your awareness while you're there. The country is in a period of unrest. I should also address Staashi's comment on the airlifting American's out. The recent rumors are incorrect about staff evacuations and the closure of the the Embassy yesterday. They US Embassy in Cairo posted a response to the rumors on their website. LINK

Don't believe the scary hype online or everything you read, especially if it isn't from a reputable news source. Check more than one source for information. There is a lot of confusion going around right now and the Egyptian people are still trying to figure it out. Many of them that are throwing stones are young and don't understand the complexities. They're under educated, un-employed and frustrated with democracy, especially when they don't understand it.

It's believed that once the constitution is passed and the power that was recently grabbed by Morsi is transferred by the new constitution to the upper house of Parliament the recent unrest will begin to subside. This is said to be done within the next week, before your trip to Egypt. I get that Morsi did the power grab in order to root out the old corrupt regime, though he maybe should have done it in a better way taking time and having a dialogue with the people so they understand him and the MB better.

It seems from the protests the corrupt people he's attempting to circumvent do understand what is going on and so they acted on it and joined the other group of liberal minded Egyptians that are more than likely acting out of fear of being over taken by an autocratic ruler. Time will tell if he follows through on what he's said and relinquishes power to the upper house of Parliament. The lower house of Parliament is what had been dissolved by the military council, which was formerly done by the Supreme Military Council because it was in their opinion over populated with MB members. This is also partly why the President did away with the Supreme Military Council. That and they were Mubarak's regime.

The Judges or Judiciary were done away for a similar reason but also because they were formerly above any review, even the President's. Now for the balance to be restored the constitution has to be voted on so the power is transferred to the Upper House of Parliament, and Judges have to vote on the new members of the lower house of parliament, but they don't like the bitter taste of having power taken away from them so they have the lawyers riled up, and the people riled up, and they said they're boycotting and also attempting to retake the power away from the President.

Anyways the US has expressed concern because the Egyptian people are riled and they're also fearing the worst case scenario in that the MB doesn't transfer the power back after the constitution is passed. When we look to the leaders of our country, and our top diplomats, and all they have is an expression of concern then you and others can relax. It means this is not the worst case scenario going on in Egypt and it's obvious because they are not outright condemning President Morsi's actions. Know that we have an ongoing working relationship with the Egyptians and we're helping to guide them in this democratic transformation. It's going to take some time. There will be hiccups. There will be times of peace and period of unrest. Hopefully by the time you get there thing will be better and they can get to the business of establishing further law and order again.

I am not sure when this went from "my instructor called the entire whole of the middle east bad" to RFQ doesn't understand their are dangers in the area. Apparently I have never spoken to anyone that lives there or done any research and I have my hand buried in the sand is the topic of this post.

Thank goodness. I trust you know what you're doing and I wonder where were these scary posts when you were asking about going to visit your dh.

Edited November 30, 2012 by Dr. A ♥ O