Which Parts of the Bible Are Negotiable?

[decocker 7,198]

My dad told me at the time that it was because the people on the earth were so evil and they only ever did evil all of the time. At least from what I remember that's what he said. He was a Pentecostal, and was therefore closely connected to Methodist and Wesleyan theology which taught Arminianism.

I realized later that God was good by his very nature and anything he decides to do is just and good. His very character defines what is righteous and righteousness is not above him in any way (otherwise I wouldn't have a God above all else), as though he could be judged by a standard higher than Himself.

But I also recognize that the answer I was given by my dad was simple so I could understand it, since I was probably about 7 or 8 at the time. I wouldn't say I accepted it right away. I started hanging around Calvinists in college and they helped me understand, and a video called Amazing Grace: The History and Theology of Calvinism helped quite a bit, too.

That's when I started to look into it on a deeper level.

i was told basically the same thing, but with more of a.. god wanted a fresh slate.. type twist.

Edited November 28, 2012 by val erie

[bsd058 296]

i was told basically the same thing, but with more of a.. god wanted a fresh slate.. type twist.

Ya. This is a popular view too. Especially for Sunday School.

It often happens that people try to simplify things for the younger generation. Sometimes their explanations are helpful but create more questions (in the case of the flood), and sometimes other explanations (like how some people try to describe the Trinity as three states of matter (Modalism)) lead to heresy.

But in the end, I think as long as a person trusts in God and doesn't depend upon his own futile deeds (which aren't righteous as far as God is concerned anyways), but is honest with himself and genuine about his desire for truth, that God will lead him to the Truth (Jesus Christ). And I believe that person will receive the Holy Spirit as a down payment for what will come in the future. The full realization of God's kingdom.

"No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him." 1 Corinthian 2:9

Let me recognize that you may not be interested in faith at this point in your life, but if you ever do become interested I would be happy to help you out in your journey. God bless.

Edited November 28, 2012 by bsd058

[Captain Oates 911]

So we are all made in god's image eh ?

That part of the bible needs to be negotiable

It is christians who have passed laws in various States which bar me (as an unbeliever) from holding office or giving evidence in court or sitting on a jury

Not sure if they were urged to do so by the bible

If christians want to sound /look christ-like and gentle and loving, they should get the militant religo-oppressors and haters out of their ranks

but they don't - they vote republican and encourage extreme political action against non believers

especially in places like the Carolinas and the South generally

Here is a human made in god's image (and a christian ) >>

Edited November 28, 2012 by Captain Oates

[JensJrny2Ray 367]

So we are all made in god's image eh ?

That part of the bible needs to be negotiable

It is christians who have passed laws in various States which bar me (as an unbeliever) from holding office or giving evidence in court or sitting on a jury

Not sure if they were urged to do so by the bible

If christians want to sound /look christ-like and gentle and loving, they should get the militant religo-oppressors and haters out of their ranks

but they don't - they vote republican and encourage extreme political action against non believers

especially in places like the Carolinas and the South generally

Here is a human made in god's image (and a christian ) >>

You're painting Christians with the same brush. I'm a Christian and I'm not republican, and I certainly don't view Rush Limbaugh ( I think that's who that's a pic of) as a Christian. Anyone can call themselves a christian, but you will know them by their fruits.

[bsd058 296]

So we are all made in god's image eh ?

That part of the bible needs to be negotiable

It is christians who have passed laws in various States which bar me (as an unbeliever) from holding office or giving evidence in court or sitting on a jury

Not sure if they were urged to do so by the bible

If christians want to sound /look christ-like and gentle and loving, they should get the militant religo-oppressors and haters out of their ranks

but they don't - they vote republican and encourage extreme political action against non believers

especially in places like the Carolinas and the South generally

Here is a human made in god's image (and a christian ) >>

Ya, I'm all for religious freedom.

You should recognize that there is the visible church and invisible church. People who call themselves Christians but inward are ravenous wolves (as the Scriptures would describe them) and real Christians who take Christ seriously. Oppression should never be the mark of Christianity. That's just sad.

I think a big reason they vote republican is the democratic stance on abortion and definition of marriage. Personally, I could never vote with a party which allows for killing unborn children.

On the other hand, republicans (and I've said this before), don't seem to care enough about the needy and they die in the streets everyday. One isn't worse than the other. But it comes down to choosing the lesser of two evils in most cases.

A Christian can be a democrat. It's just that they should always stand up for what they believe is wrong about their party if they are going to support one over the other. I think if I get citizenship I will probably register independent.

Edited November 28, 2012 by bsd058

[decocker 7,198]

It often happens that people try to simplify things for the younger generation. Sometimes their explanations are helpful but create more questions (in the case of the flood), and sometimes other explanations (like how some people try to describe the Trinity as three states of matter (Modalism)) lead to heresy.

my parents taught me very very young, to question everything. these early beginnings kind of backfired when they wanted my blind acceptance to what i was being taught at church. i spent many nights over most of my childhood and teen years debating sermons with my parents. my mom has told me i was her most frustrating child because i asked questions they didn't have answers for. i made them question their faith - which they resented - and at the same time they were scared that i was a lost soul, bound for hell. what they didn't understand was that i wanted to be able to believe. of course i didn't want to be on the wrong side of a vengeful god. but i couldn't help that none of it made sense to me. i was baptized the same day as my dad, i was nine and he was thirty.

and there are some who say i'd go to heaven based purely on the act of my baptism at nine. others would say i've fallen out of grace and must get baptized again. still more would say that me typing 'there is no god' is enough to plant my butt in hell for all eternity. the possibilities are quite endless..

i think a person's chosen faith comes down to what you allow yourself to let go of. i don't know how we got here, what this life is for, or what happens when we die. i accept i will never know the concrete answers to those questions.

but i do know that people are good and not innately evil, i absolutely cannot accept that. people are born with the potential for a lifetime of goodness and sharing that goodness with others. life gets in the way, sh*t happens, but i've found, for me, simplicity is best: treat others as you would like to be treated and let the cards fall as they may.

[Captain Oates 911]

You're painting Christians with the same brush. I'm a Christian and I'm not republican, and I certainly don't view Rush Limbaugh ( I think that's who that's a pic of) as a Christian. Anyone can call themselves a christian, but you will know them by their fruits.

now you are talking

I like that

I once said I was a christian who didn't believe in god and I was badly derided for it

I think that would be more acceptable to a christian that someone who honor-killed his daughter by cutting her throat and said his religion required it

That person can give evidence in South Carolina because he is a Muslim - but I can't (according to their laws which they refuse to repeal)

I don't mind christ-like christians at all - because they don't come after me and try and do me harm and they like the idea of healing the sick and feeding the hungry and protecting the vulnerable

I wish there were more christians like you....less private jets/fancy suits/Rolls-Royces. Those christians wreck it for the real ones.

.

[bsd058 296]

my parents taught me very very young, to question everything. these early beginnings kind of backfired when they wanted my blind acceptance to what i was being taught at church. i spent many nights over most of my childhood and teen years debating sermons with my parents. my mom has told me i was her most frustrating child because i asked questions they didn't have answers for. i made them question their faith - which they resented - and at the same time they were scared that i was a lost soul, bound for hell. what they didn't understand was that i wanted to be able to believe. of course i didn't want to be on the wrong side of a vengeful god. but i couldn't help that none of it made sense to me. i was baptized the same day as my dad, i was nine and he was thirty.

and there are some who say i'd go to heaven based purely on the act of my baptism at nine. others would say i've fallen out of grace and must get baptized again. still more would say that me typing 'there is no god' is enough to plant my butt in hell for all eternity. the possibilities are quite endless..

i think a person's chosen faith comes down to what you allow yourself to let go of. i don't know how we got here, what this life is for, or what happens when we die. i accept i will never know the concrete answers to those questions.

but i do know that people are good and not innately evil, i absolutely cannot accept that. people are born with the potential for a lifetime of goodness and sharing that goodness with others. life gets in the way, sh*t happens, but i've found, for me, simplicity is best: treat others as you would like to be treated and let the cards fall as they may.

I hear you.

I view baptism as a one time event. I liken it to circumcision of the Jews. It is merely an outward sign of the covenant.

Well, just continue to be honest with yourself. Criticize away. That's how the best minds work.

And that's all I would have to say to you. I genuinely hope to see you in heaven one day.

If you ever have any suggestions on books I might enjoy, let me know. I love theology, too. It's a hobby, but definitely also a lifestyle for me.

Have a good one.

Edited November 28, 2012 by bsd058

[scotinmass 588]

How do you mean "god makes me work ?"

Do you mean he makes you go out to do a job, or your life wouldn't function without your belief in god ?

I am a 'default human' in that I believe what I believed when I was 1 minute old - and I believe what you believed when you were 1 minute old.

Before those people started telling us all that stuff

Everything that religious people believe has been told to them by a person

.

When I said "God makes me work" I meant that if there is a God and he decides everyone's destiny he decided that I wouldn't be one of the fortunate ones that would be born into a financially comfortable family and I would have to work for The Man for the whole of my life. Now that God has decided my shift is over and I can come home I have to go spend some of my hard earned cash on food as I don't have a servant to do it for me.

I am technically a christian because I was christened when I was a baby but until something can prove to me the existence of a higher power that created the universe then I won't believe it.

The Big Bang Theory makes no sense. There was a mass of nothingness and it exploded and made the universe! Yeah ok!

But the creator version makes no sense either. If God created the universe where did he get the materials from. Did he also have a big mass of nothingness that he made stuff from? Who made God? Why does God let bad things happen to good people and good things to bad people? Why is it that if you believe in God you will go to heaven but if you don't you'll not. That would mean that God is vengeful and nasty but he is portrayed as being good and kind.

There are way too many things that don't make sense for someone with a rational brain to swallow it all. If you argue with a religious person and they can't prove you wrong they say "God moves in mysterious ways" etc etc etc. It's just like when a child asks their parent why and they say "Because I said so!"

[Captain Oates 911]

When I said "God makes me work" I meant that if there is a God and he decides everyone's destiny he decided that I wouldn't be one of the fortunate ones that would be born into a financially comfortable family and I would have to work for The Man for the whole of my life. Now that God has decided my shift is over and I can come home I have to go spend some of my hard earned cash on food as I don't have a servant to do it for me.

I am technically a christian because I was christened when I was a baby but until something can prove to me the existence of a higher power that created the universe then I won't believe it.

The Big Bang Theory makes no sense. There was a mass of nothingness and it exploded and made the universe! Yeah ok!

But the creator version makes no sense either. If God created the universe where did he get the materials from. Did he also have a big mass of nothingness that he made stuff from? Who made God? Why does God let bad things happen to good people and good things to bad people? Why is it that if you believe in God you will go to heaven but if you don't you'll not. That would mean that God is vengeful and nasty but he is portrayed as being good and kind.

There are way too many things that don't make sense for someone with a rational brain to swallow it all. If you argue with a religious person and they can't prove you wrong they say "God moves in mysterious ways" etc etc etc. It's just like when a child asks their parent why and they say "Because I said so!"

chuckle

When I told my mother I was a non believer, she said "Too late, I had you baptized"

I like the 1 minute old baby idea. A baby's religious position is - a total blank. If I describe my religious position as a total blank, people will think I am thick - so I will have to come up with another descriptor

38% of Brits believe in god - and the Brits are among the more pious in Europe, but here in the USA, I can get seriously hated by christians for my position as an atheist (are they supposed to hate ? ) - so I need a new descriptor - "a blankist " - that should furrow their brows

Edited November 28, 2012 by Captain Oates

[Asia 2,498]

Why is it that if you believe in God you will go to heaven but if you don't you'll not.

I read somewhere a pretty good summary of the Christianity:

"Take the heaven form the Christian and you take away his faith.

Take the hell and he become a beast."

[james&olya 1,121]

If sports stars on opposing teams both pray and cross themselves what team will God help?

Same reason as carrying your lucky rabbit's foot, wearing your unwashed, lucky 'game socks', etc. It all has to do with what goes on entirely between the ears of the active participant. Some of it may actually work. Basically prayer/meditation are a form of self psycho-therapy, even self-hypnosis in those with real 'faith'! If you believe something will happen that you have a role in, it is more likely to occur than if you believe it will not happen! This powerful God that can help you in so many ways is right there in your own mind!

[james&olya 1,121]

That comes from a naturalistic presuppostion, though. I wouldn't expect you to believe the Bible is Divinely inspired. Only someone who has been converted to the Christian worldview can believe this.

I don't believe in the pope either, though.

The doctrines I believe in must come from the Bible (Sola Scriptura), they are otherwise imaginations.

Awww, come on, your imaginations I am sure are every bit as good as the imaginations of those people from thousands of years ago!

[james&olya 1,121]

Ya, funny that I'm condemned by the pope who acknowledges that Muslims worship the one true God with the Christians. Something's messed up in Rome.

Heaven is always there for me. Even if I go to hell, He is still worthy and righteous.

I believe in heaven and hell also. If you want I could introduce you to my current wife and to my ex!

Sounds like you agree with me as far as all these rules about saints and angels and the various stages of purgatory and stuff are concerned

I quite like jesus because all the stuff he was pushing would have precluded him from the 'tea party' and he would have been overturning the money lending tables at goldman sachs while the republicans were trying to arrest him

evangelical christians are behind the wrong party politically and are being used to protect non-christian policies of intolerance and selfishness and exploitation

jesus's love and kindness and generosity messages are certainty optional to right wing christians

More relaxed christians like the hispanics are voting jesus in the form of liberal social policies

Amen!

[james&olya 1,121]

Ya, I'm all for religious freedom.

I think a big reason they vote republican is the democratic stance on abortion . Personally, I could never vote with a party which allows for killing unborn children.

Ya, I'm all for religious freedom.

I think a big reason they vote democratic is the republican stance on abortion. Personally, I could never vote with a party which does not allow free choice on issues that are moral/religious.