Marriage is Failing ... What to do?

[destiny64 222]

the 90 days is NOT to see if the relationship is going to "work out". The 90 days is given to make any arrangements for the marriage and to get married!!!! I will never understand why people here continually think and or state that a k-1 visa is a "get to know you" visa. A k-1 is for the foreign fiance to come and GET MARRIED to a USC!!!!!

I agree wholeheartedly with you mimolicious, and I will also add this is why the fiance visa status is scrutinized so much and full of denials from consulates.

After reading that post , all I can think is if this woman arrived to live with the love of her life and is being treated bad then the status of her visa is mute point, pack it up and go home. Isn't this the reason she came was for her love??? I get very suspicious when I read these stories of bad USC spouses, maybe this guy is getting the "feeling" that she came just to be in the states and not because she loved him. Two sides to every story. Or maybe he really isn't happy with her, in that case should tell her its not working. Either way the visa shouldn't be what the focus is on, should it??!!

[Cathi 5,784]

Legally yes, but practically you know very well that there are thousands of couples who just met on the internet, met in real life once during vacation and then decide to get married without even having lived together for longer than a week.

When you live together and see each other everyday, sudden it is all not sugar sweet as expected and you start to see the other sides of each other.

yes LEGALLY...anyone who comes on a k-1 just to "get to know" their SO is committing fraud in my eyes, and some use it as a way to get in the country and never leave, without ever getting married.

[Artisan 138]

If the marriage is failing or has failed, He or she should pack up and leave.

pack it up and go home.

If you read her post again you will notice that she indicates that her niece has not been given any money. Isolating someone and making them financially dependent on you are two forms of legally recognized Domestic Abuse. She has no way of returning to the Philippines on her own, let alone calling a taxi to pick her up. Neither the Philippine Embassy nor local social workers will pay for her return until charges have been filed which would require her local testimony making the whole idea of return moot. Depending on how far outside the city limits of Wichita, KS she lives she may be miles from her nearest neighbor, a virtual prisoner in her own home. Returning to the Philippines may or may not be required. Men who go out of their way to bring foreign women to this country just to isolate them and treat them as chattel deserve prison at the very least in my eyes. Offering the women abused in those situations another chance at living in the US is the least we can do for having failed them for producing such horrid examples of humanity in our own country. Perhaps another step to add to immigration should be mental health evaluations done by qualified family counselors just to help prevent situations like this one.

Men who take up with women who trick them happens as well, but I have never seen a case where being a bit more observant or cautious wouldn't have seen through the GLARING holes in those situations. There is literally no way someone that was in a truly dedicated and committed relationship could miss their beloved spending time with another man without deliberately ignoring the obvious and being willfully blind. Sometimes I think the K-1 visa is a poor idea. US citizens that want to marry foreigners should probably spend more time overseas with their spouses before ever being allowed to bring them into the country.

[InHisTime 110]

I just think once and for all the USC husband and your niece (wife) should sit down and have a heart to heart talk about their marriage. If all possible remedies or solutions have been done, but still no concern or positive actions from the husband, I think it would be best that your niece and her son should leave this man and go back home. She could only adjust status through her husband, the petitioner. I'm not sure if she could file for VAWA, but if it is me, I would rather go back home and start life once again. Staying in America with someone very abusive and manipulative is not wise and happy. Important is safety, peace of mind, respect and love -- it's not all about America. There are things in life that we need to value more - self respect is just one of the many things. Your niece needs to make right and honorable decision -- forget about immigration status, for now. There is hope and God is good always.

[elyhim 41]

Isolating someone and making them financially dependent on you are two forms of legally recognized Domestic Abuse.

I don't think much of someone who does this but I've never heard of not giving someone pocket money as domestic abuse. If these things were crimes then Scientologists would all be in jail as well as all the rest of the nutcase religions.

Again I'm all for independent women and supporting the love of my life in whatever she wants. I wanted a partner not a maid or some ridiculous idea as such. I'm just curious as to where you get "legally recognized" language from. Sure those are signs that you are likely in a relationship that isn't healthy but as far as illegal I seriously doubt it.

[VanessaTony 3,567]

Contact your Embassy and ask for assistance in returning home. I believe that this was covered in the CFO seminar, lots of others talk about it. Return home to family and friends, problem solved.

OR the OP could pay for her niece to return home. She wants to help, that would be the best way.

**Edit - I should clarify, by best way I mean -- I wouldn't want to live in a shelter with my child. i wouldn't have any money to support myself. I'm assuming the OP (Aunt) would pay for everything to move her to live with her in CA and support her while the stuff is processing but... I don't know. I came here for my husband, I would return home if things didn't work out. Sure I'd probably be ashamed but I'd be around friends and family, and I'd be happy again. Living in the US was never my goal.

Edited November 22, 2012 by Vanessa&Tony

[reese1 68]

I don't think much of someone who does this but I've never heard of not giving someone pocket money as domestic abuse. If these things were crimes then Scientologists would all be in jail as well as all the rest of the nutcase religions.

Again I'm all for independent women and supporting the love of my life in whatever she wants. I wanted a partner not a maid or some ridiculous idea as such. I'm just curious as to where you get "legally recognized" language from. Sure those are signs that you are likely in a relationship that isn't healthy but as far as illegal I seriously doubt it.

Emotional abuse (also called psychological abuse or mental abuse) can include humiliating the victim privately or publicly, controlling what the victim can and cannot do, withholding information from the victim, deliberately doing something to make the victim feel diminished or embarrassed, isolating the victim from friends and family, implicitly blackmailing the victim by harming others when the victim expresses independence or happiness, or denying the victim access to money or other basic resources and necessities. Degradation in any form can be considered psychological abuse.

Emotional abuse includes forceful efforts to isolate the victim, keeping them from contacting friends or family. This is intended to eliminate those who might try to help the victim leave the relationship and to create a lack of resources for them to rely on if they were to leave. Isolation results in damaging the victim’s sense of internal strength, leaving them feeling helpless and unable to escape from the situation.

Of course there is always three sides to a story, his side, her side, and the truth. My question is why has the husband waited so long to file the AOS if not for control over the wife. She can not work, get a drivers license, and at this point even if he did give her money she is more than likely scared to leave the house without her spouse since she is out of status. I understand the idea that the husband may feel he got played and she only came to get the visa, however if that is the case why not put her on a plane back to her own country he has not filed the AOS so he is off the hook. Why keep her here under these conditions if that is the reason for not filing. Emotional abuse can turn into Physical abuse in the blink of an eye as soon as the abuser feels they are loosing control.

To the OP assist as much as you can but be very mindful of the situation, because you could put your niece at a greater risk, since you don't know the ENTIRE situation that is going on.

[destiny64 222]

If you read the original post again, the main concern seems to be how to file for the removal of conditions. All this focus on the abusive spouse seems to be the emotional pull for all of us to help this person get their conditions removed and the road to a 10 yr green card. Remember folks , the reason a lot of us are struggling to get our loved ones here is because of fraud.

If your niece is in an abusive relationship , help her get out of that situation and back home please.

[elyhim 41]

Emotional abuse (also called psychological abuse or mental abuse)

I understand, it's also impolite but where is the statute? People are throwing around the term legally here and I don't see it. If emotional abuse were illegal I would have loved to charge my ex-wife with it...

[jaycali 415]

yes LEGALLY...anyone who comes on a k-1 just to "get to know" their SO is committing fraud in my eyes, and some use it as a way to get in the country and never leave, without ever getting married.

.. And no course of action to ever adjust status.

The reality is that a lot of couples do not know each other all that well when the foreign fiance(e) enters on a K-1. That 90 day period is the first time they ever get to spend a significant amount of time physically together - This often makes a huge difference. Either way, this is a different discussion.

[Artisan 138]

I understand, it's also impolite but where is the statute? People are throwing around the term legally here and I don't see it. If emotional abuse were illegal I would have loved to charge my ex-wife with it...

A quick search of the Kansas City Prosecutors office has the following information:

What is domestic violence

How is "domestic violence" defined?

The federal Domestic Violence Prevention Act defines “domestic violence” as a non-self defense act that:

Causes or attempts to cause physical or mental harm to a family or household member

Places a family or household member in fear of physical or mental harm

Causes or attempting to cause a family or household member to engage in involuntary sexual

activity by force, or duress

Is taken toward a family or household member that would cause a reasonable person to feel terrorized, frightened, intimidated, threatened, harassed or molested.

Domestic violence also is viewed as a learned pattern of physical, verbal, sexual and/or emotional behaviors in which one person in a relationship uses force and intimidation to dominate or control the other person.

and

Examples of acts of domestic violence include:

Stalking

Intimidation

Emotional abuse – mind games, name-calling, put-downs, belittling comments

Jealously – signs of possessiveness and lack of trust

Threats of physical harm to a victim’s family members or friends

Forced isolation from family or friends – controlling what the victim does, who the victim sees or talks to, where the victim goes, relocating to a remote area, etc.

Economic abuse – preventing the victim from getting or holding a job, controlling the victim’s access to money, taking the victim’s earned money, giving a victim an allowance, making a victim ask for money

The Wichita, KS Police website lists the following as reportable as domestic abuse:

Physical

pushing

punching

spitting

slapping

kicking

throwing objects

strangling

using weapons

homicide/suicide

Psychological

name calling

belittling

threatening

criticizing

ignoring

yelling

isolation

humiliation

jealousy

Financial

controlling money

causing victim to loose job

harassing victim at work

questioning every expense

keeping financial secrets

Sexual

unwanted touching

sexual name calling

unfaithfulness

false accusations of infidelity

forced sex

hurtful sex

The legality tends to be lumped under generic domestic violence in the statutes, but the interpretation is often quite broad and rather than change the statutes, the lawyers and prosecutors leave the definition of abuse up to society and the psychologists.

[VanessaTony 3,567]

A quick search of the Kansas City Prosecutors office has the following information:

I just don't see how a lawyer would walk into court and say "he didn't give her money" as a reason he was abusive. It's just... bull. I'm sure it's tied to other behaviours and not simply about money.

We need to remember the OP is NOT the "victim", the OP is the Aunt who is apparently being told these things. She doesn't know these things are true. Wouldn't be the first time someone lied to someone else for sympathy. I'm not saying that IS the case, but it could be.

I went back and re-read the OP. Why are people saying there's isolation and controlling who she talks to, and where she goes? There's no mention of that in the OP. My husband doesn't give me pocket money, never has. He'd give me money for things if I asked and we could afford it but I deliberately didn't because I don't like being dependent. We filed AOS late because we couldn't afford it right away.

Edited November 23, 2012 by Vanessa&Tony

[VanessaTony 3,567]

He does not even give her pocket money. He tells her She tells YOU he said that he did not file papers to legalize her status nor money for simple things in order to control her and keep her from leaving him, because he was testing her. His brother informed me that he isn't filing her as a dependent on his taxes, and that he did not add her to any bank accounts, or anything else. You don't file the spouse as a dependent. EVER

She has been a good wife and patient, but he has been acting strange, by being aloof, isolated and on his computer all night She tell you that. You don't know this for fact. In fact, if she's feeling a certain way she will interpret behaviour a certain way....and for me, I have heard of men who bring women over to marry only to kill them to start over in a new relationship. I know that is extreme but I do worry for her and her son.

I am a citizen and her father's first cousin. Can my husband and I file on her behalf? Nope

Pay for her and her child to return to their home country. You have basically stated that she has nothing here in the US.

Others are reading isolation. If he was isolating her the Aunt wouldn't know all this about their relationship. He could be giving her money but she could have decided it's not enough. Maybe he doesn't have money for AOS 'cause he's busy paying for other ####### for her. We don't know, the Aunt doesn't know.

OP there is nothing you can do for your niece save pay for their tickets home. You cannot assist her immigration.

Edited November 23, 2012 by Vanessa&Tony

[Artisan 138]

I just don't see how a lawyer would walk into court and say "he didn't give her money" as a reason he was abusive. It's just... bull. I'm sure it's tied to other behaviours and not simply about money.

Of course it is tied to other behaviors as well, not just the lack of pocket money, but it is imprisoning to be dependent on someone that you fear. I'm going to be blunt here. I will make a few assumptions based just on what I see of your profile. You are white, middle class, and come from a Western social support structure. You speak fluent English, perhaps with an accent that someone in the US wouldn't have too much trouble understanding. Your friends and family would welcome you with open arms if you returned to your home country. For many immigrating Filipinas absolutely none of that is true. Their entire lives are dismantled for the chance to be with a loving husband. If it falls apart they are often blamed by family back home for not being 'understanding' or knowing her place. How comfortable would you be with your lot in life if you were threatened with deportation every day and you didn't have a home to return to back in Australia?

I went back and re-read the OP. Why are people saying there's isolation and controlling who she talks to, and where she goes? There's no mention of that in the OP. My husband doesn't give me pocket money, never has. He'd give me money for things if I asked and we could afford it but I deliberately didn't because I don't like being dependent. We filed AOS late because we couldn't afford it right away.

We see a common pattern of abuse that is often observed in the Filipino-American communities here in the US. Everyone I have ever met in the Fil-Am community (and I mean literally everyone) has a story of a family member or friend that has suffered some level of abuse from a husband or boyfriend here in the US. So many men see Filipinas as nothing but chattel that are here to provide them maid service and sex all in return for a better life (which isn't all that better when you are trapped in an abusive relationship).

Does the OP's niece have any non-Filipino friends nearby? Does she talk to the neighbors? (If she has any. Most of Western and Central Kansas just outside of Wichita is God-forsaken and empty.) There are plenty of husbands that don't let their wives talk to other people, especially men. It's not entirely unlikely that she can only communicate with her family because her husband can't understand a single word she's saying. Most men that marry Filipinas never bother to learn much Tagalog or their wife's native dialect at all.

Telling this woman to send her niece and child back to the Philippines might be a good idea from your viewpoint, but could you afford to drop $3,000+ to help a relative on short notice? What can she do about the possibility that her family would turn her away if she returned? There are plenty of checks and balances in the system here in the US. I left her plenty of information to get the young woman to safety first if that is her concern and then afterwards she can deal with the issue of immigration.

Edited November 23, 2012 by Artisan

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

VAWA is a tough row to hoe under any circumstances. VAWA with only a claim of psychological or emotional abuse is an order of magnitude more difficult. The two things needed in any VAWA case are evidence of good faith marriage, and evidence of abuse. It sounds like the OP's niece may be sorely lacking in either of these. I'm not saying that the abuse isn't real, or that everything she's saying is or isn't true. The problem is that she's got to PROVE it to USCIS.

The OP says her husband hasn't filed a joint tax return with her, or "claimed her as a dependent". Well, the latter part is irrelevant. You don't claim your wife as a dependent. You get an exemption for your wife if you file a joint return, or you don't get an exemption if you file separate returns. So the options are that he's filing as married but filing separately or he's filing as single. In actuality, he COULD be filing married jointly if he's filing electronically. The OP would probably have no way of knowing which of these is the case. Whatever the facts are, it sounds like her niece doesn't have access to any of his financial records, and if what her niece says is true then none of those records would include her anyway. No comingling of finances makes the "good faith marriage" requirement substantially more difficult to prove.

For the proof of abuse, it sounds like the only evidence she's got so far are the statements she's made to her aunt. The strongest evidence when claiming psychological or emotional abuse are statements from a psychologist or psychiatrist, or even a professional marriage counselor. Does she have any of this?

Vanessa also makes the very valid point that the OP has not given any indication that she's personally witnessed any of the things she's claimed have happened with her niece. This means we can only give our opinions based on the assumption that what's been said have been the facts, and that no substantial facts have been omitted. Based on that assumption, I think a VAWA self-petition will fail. She simply doesn't have the evidence.

Her other options are nil. She entered with a K1 visa, which precludes any other sort of family based petition.

A consultation with an immigration attorney regarding a possible VAWA self-petition wouldn't hurt anything. Since she'd probably be asking for pro bono assistance then the attorney will probably be forthright and not pull any punches. Most attorneys would never tell you there's no hope if they smell money.

I just wanted to make one more comment...

I am outraged that he essentially has her for free sex, and am worried for her safety and her six yr old son.

I'm sorry, but I find comments like this to be a little offensive. It implies that sex is a commodity that a husband is expected to somehow pay for, and that if he's not paying his dues then he's getting something for "free" that he shouldn't be getting. It's also highly unlikely that this is the case. This doesn't sound at all like a typical "sex slave" case.