Thousands march against same-sex marriage bill

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

This is really very simple...like all the other "complex" political problems.

ELiminate ANY form of government benefit favoring marriage of any type. Make it a contract between two people and be done with it. Religious people can make it whatever they want, Gays can make it what they want and government does not care.

In fact, just implement the FAIR TAX and 90% of this argument vanishes.

Exactly...

[Danno 1,228]

This is really very simple...like all the other "complex" political problems.

ELiminate ANY form of government benefit favoring marriage of any type. Make it a contract between two people and be done with it. Religious people can make it whatever they want, Gays can make it what they want and government does not care.

In fact, just implement the FAIR TAX and 90% of this argument vanishes.

Why not show us what a draft of such a document might look like?

[SaharaSunset 165]

Same-sex marriage has enjoyed majority support in France for some time. As of August this year, 65% support marriage equality in France. Adoption rights for same sex couples also enjoy majority support at 53%. Same as here, the backward crowd is getting louder but it is also getting smaller.

I wonder if that same majority also supports polygamy?....Especially the polygamist sects where 50+ year old men marry 12 & 14 year old girls. I mean that "majority" is supposedly the open minded ones right? Just because "the backward crowd" says that a 14 year is not an adult, and its wrong to many multiple wives doesn't make it so. I mean, what makes someone an "adult"? - social norms. So isn't it being the most open-minded to break with old fashioned "social stigmas." Come now, who's gonna march for the polygamists of America!? And what about the folks who want to marry their 1st cousin...or sibling? Who will march for them?

Edited November 20, 2012 by SaharaSunset

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

I wonder if that same majority also supports polygamy?....Especially the polygamist sects where 50+ year old men marry 12 & 14 year old girls. I mean that "majority" is supposedly the open minded ones right? Just because "the backward crowd" says that a 14 year is not an adult, and its wrong to many multiple wives doesn't make it so. I mean, what makes someone an "adult"? - social norms. So isn't it being the most open-minded to break with old fashioned "social stigmas." Come now, who's gonna march for the polygamists of America!? And what about the folks who want to marry their 1st cousin...or sibling? Who will march for them?

A 50 year old person marrying a 14 year old is not ok because the 14 year old is not of the age of consent. I am sure that practice is not limited to polygamist.

As for polygamy . If 5 woman want to marry the same man, and one man could handle the stress of having 5 wives and they are all adults.. Then that is none of our business what they do.

What two or more consenting adults do is their business, not ours as long as no one else is forced to Witness it, Condone it or help fund it .

Why not show us what a draft of such a document might look like?

Since there would be no tax implications , it would be a set of documents like-power of attorney, living will rights, rights of survivor

[Danno 1,228]

A 50 year old person marrying a 14 year old is not ok because the 14 year old is not of the age of consent. I am sure that practice is not limited to polygamist.

As for polygamy . If 5 woman want to marry the same man, and one man could handle the stress of having 5 wives and they are all adults.. Then that is none of our business what they do.

What two or more consenting adults do is their business, not ours as long as no one else is forced to Witness it, Condone it or help fund it .

Since there would be no tax implications , it would be a set of documents like-power of attorney, living will rights, rights of survivor

"Age of consent" is an arbitrary number, since I suspect you are a constitutionalist... where in the Constitution is the age "18" some magical number?

So then you are left with 1. the will of the people 2. tradition.

(You might also keep in mind, very few places require a person to be 18 to marry.... why confuse a "legal age of emancipation" to marriage law?)

Right now there are movements to lower the age of consent laws... by guess who?

You are a bright guy but you are following an untested method of social order based on a personal hunch and conviction.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

"Age of consent" is an arbitrary number, since I suspect you are a constitutionalist... where in the Constitution is the age "18" some magical number?

So then you are left with 1. the will of the people 2. tradition.

(You might also keep in mind, very few places require a person to be 18 to marry.... why confuse a "legal age of emancipation" to marriage law?)

Right now there are movements to lower the age of consent laws... by guess who?

You are a bright guy but you are following an untested method of social order based on a personal hunch and conviction.

My hunch is that anytime you abridge freedom, it is a bad thing. I don't understand the obsession in this country with how others lead their personal lives. It's really none of our business. I do assume you know that in the "Bible" most of the main characters had many wives. Oral sex was very Taboo until several years ago. Do you really want the government telling you what you can do and not do in your bedroom or how to define your relationship ?

I support equal rights for all people even conservatives. I find the government telling someone who or how many they can marry just as distasteful as I find the Government asking me to fund it.

A perfect example is Sandra Fluke. She is a militant feminist who demands the Government stay out of her reproductive choices, but then demands they pay for those choices. That is absurd. You can't have it both ways.

[SaharaSunset 165]

My hunch is that anytime you abridge freedom, it is a bad thing. I don't understand the obsession in this country with how others lead their personal lives. It's really none of our business. I do assume you know that in the "Bible" most of the main characters had many wives. Oral sex was very Taboo until several years ago. Do you really want the government telling you what you can do and not do in your bedroom or how to define your relationship ?

I support equal rights for all people even conservatives. I find the government telling someone who or how many they can marry just as distasteful as I find the Government asking me to fund it.

A perfect example is Sandra Fluke. She is a militant feminist who demands the Government stay out of her reproductive choices, but then demands they pay for those choices. That is absurd. You can't have it both ways.

You're missing the point. "Age of consent" is a socially constructed number...and a number that the "government" tells us is okay. And by your same logic about rejecting the taboos of long ago, I don't see why a 50 year man can't marry a 12 year old. Its just a social taboo of today. Its the government who has made "age of consent." So if you want the government out of the bedroom, by your logic, that should apply to the sexual preferences of anyone...including a 50 year old man and 12 year old girl. Or visa versa. I wonder if those that support the gay lifestyle also supported Mary Kaye Laterneau? She loved that 12 year old boy...and he loved her. And now that he is of the government "age of consent" they are actually happily married. So the government was wrong to keep them apart - they really did love eachother even though she was mid-40s and he was 12. And before you find my argument offensive and disgusting, please remember that "age of consent" is a social construct....and again, by your logic, it should be throw by the wayside just like that old backward social construct of a man and woman being the "normal, healthy" relationship.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

It's amazing how same sex marriage discussions always have some fool comparing it to child abuse, pedophilia, or marrying animals. Try to be less ignorant in your arguments. If you don't know what "two consenting ADULTS" means, then we can't help you.

[Teddy B 17,252]

Go ahead, finish the sentence.

Okay, I will do it for you.

"a total of 15 to 20 thousand people showed up in opposition and oddly enough only 5o showed up in support, which surprising because we have been told that France loves the idea".

Next time finish your own thoughts.

Perhaps 50 people showed up in suport because the majority of the country accepts gay marriage and has moved on to bigger and bettyer things? 15 to 20 thousand people out of 60 million plus is miniscule. Perhaps the majority of France finds this whole protest to be trivial, kinda like this thread.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Teddy B

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

It's amazing how same sex marriage discussions always have some fool comparing it to child abuse, pedophilia, or marrying animals. Try to be less ignorant in your arguments. If you don't know what "two consenting ADULTS" means, then we can't help you.

Isn't it ? It never fails that if you are in favor of two adults making thheir own lifestyle choices withing, 2 posts someone will be talking about child molesters and animal sex.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

You're missing the point. "Age of consent" is a socially constructed number...and a number that the "government" tells us is okay. And by your same logic about rejecting the taboos of long ago, I don't see why a 50 year man can't marry a 12 year old. Its just a social taboo of today. Its the government who has made "age of consent." So if you want the government out of the bedroom, by your logic, that should apply to the sexual preferences of anyone...including a 50 year old man and 12 year old girl. Or visa versa. I wonder if those that support the gay lifestyle also supported Mary Kaye Laterneau? She loved that 12 year old boy...and he loved her. And now that he is of the government "age of consent" they are actually happily married. So the government was wrong to keep them apart - they really did love eachother even though she was mid-40s and he was 12. And before you find my argument offensive and disgusting, please remember that "age of consent" is a social construct....and again, by your logic, it should be throw by the wayside just like that old backward social construct of a man and woman being the "normal, healthy" relationship.

I do not find any civil argument offensive. I respect anybody how can debate a topic without insulting others. However the age of consent is the age at which we normally consider someone an adult. Are some more rational and mature at 16 than others at 30.. Yes. However no one is going to agree to allow anyone to have conceptual relations with a 12 year old. That's absurd and presenting as an argument against same sex Unions is even more absurd.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Perhaps 50 people showed up in suport because the majority of the country accepts gay marriage and has moved on to bigger and bettyer things? 15 to 20 thousand people out of 60 million plus is miniscule. Perhaps the majority of France finds this whole protest to be trivial, kinda like this thread.

Because Americans are a bright bunch these days. Take Micheal Jackson for instance. A child molester that some Americans still revere.

My hunch is that anytime you abridge freedom, it is a bad thing. I don't understand the obsession in this country with how others lead their personal lives. It's really none of our business. I do assume you know that in the "Bible" most of the main characters had many wives. Oral sex was very Taboo until several years ago. Do you really want the government telling you what you can do and not do in your bedroom or how to define your relationship ?

I support equal rights for all people even conservatives. I find the government telling someone who or how many they can marry just as distasteful as I find the Government asking me to fund it.

A perfect example is Sandra Fluke. She is a militant feminist who demands the Government stay out of her reproductive choices, but then demands they pay for those choices. That is absurd. You can't have it both ways.

Yep and how would you like one of your children being adopted by them? Think on that one.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

Again with the child molestation.

Yep and how would you like one of your children being adopted by them? Think on that one.

Two loving people who will nurture, adore, educate and support my child? I can think of much worse.

The idea that someone's sexual orientation defines them SO MUCH that it would negatively impact the way they would treat a child boggles my mind.

Edited November 21, 2012 by Evylin

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Why not show us what a draft of such a document might look like?

Alla and I have one, but it is none of your business...that's the point. It's not your business and it is not the government's business. Besides, why would a draft of what Alla and I can commit to for life have anything to do with what YOU and your wife can commit to for life? If there is some part of the coteract process you do not understand then hire a lawyer.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Again with the child molestation.

Two loving people who will nurture, adore, educate and support my child? I can think of much worse.

The idea that someone's sexual orientation defines them SO MUCH that it would negatively impact the way they would treat a child boggles my mind.

Spare me. That last thing a child needs is to be put in the hands of two homosexuals. Maybe TV these days says that those people are playing with a full deck but reality says different. No child should have to go through that #######.