Marriage in Philippines

[Artisan 138]

Who has gotten in trouble for bypassing the normal waiting period for a marriage license?

Please stop trying to scare people.

One of my wife's co-workers was busted in a graft sting at Manila City Hall a year prior to our getting married. She attempted to pay to bypass the Family Planning Seminar. The worker took the money, asked her to wait in the office, and returned with police. She ended up paying a hefty fine (in addition to losing the pesos she gave the worker) and spent the night in lockup.

When my wife and I set up our wedding she was extra careful to avoid any impropriety. Sitting here and actually promoting people to BREAK THE LAW is irresponsible and dangerous. People that offer advice like that should not be allowed to continue to do so. If people sat here and advised people to bribe border guards and other US officials the boards would be in an uproar, but somehow promoting illegal activity in other countries is fine? Get real, bypassing the correct procedures is illegal and should be treated as such. Just because a bunch of self-entitled Americans and their corrupt relatives feel they can buy their way through life doesn't make it the best way to advise people seeking LEGAL advice on a forum designed to facilitate immigration legally.

At this point I am just going to stop debating the point and just report every and all posts I encounter that promote using graft and bribery to bypass local laws.

[Artisan 138]

If he was a U.S. citizen at the time of his marriage, he doesn't need a Philippines court to recognize his divorce, nor does he need to get an annulment. He can request a CENOMAR right now and the NSO will issue him a CEMAR (Advisory on Marriages).

This is false. If his previous marriage is registered with the NSO he is required to have a local Philippine court recognize his divorce decree and file it with the NSO. The courts have, under certain circumstances, been known to not recognize the divorce and required an annulment. For someone that has apparently spent a lot of time on this forum you seem to have a severe lack of practical experience with the legal system in the Philippines. If he does not have the divorce decree recognized and filed he will be guilty of bigamy in the Philippines and it will show up once the NSO attempts to register the new marriage.

[GaryKO 49]

Exactly as I had to do it, and the same as mentioned above, the clerk/office manager told me that I needed to do X,Y & Z then 10 days waiting and she added some other BS, basicilly making it as hard to do as possible to get the job done in the timing we needed, it is the same as trying to get anything done in the Philippines. There is more red tape than a town full of Santa Clauses, needing to repair their torn red outfits. (the CFO comes to mind) LOL

We ask for a brief meeting with the Mayor, explained we were on a tight schedule, could meet all the document & seminar requirements, but it needed it to done in parallel, he smilled and said that actually the date we wanted to have the ceremony, he was not avalible, but he would marry on a earlier date, and they would give us the signed license when we presented the needed documents, and met the 10 day. He also instructed the clerk to make sure the completed package was given to us to send to the NSO, in a very short time frame after.

Moral of the story just ask, and a few piso's spread around never hurts, like the seminars, I think back them we needed two different ones, first one we just paid the fee, and they gave the Certificate, the second one was pay the fee, and bring them some Ice Cream.

We did invite the Mayor, and his friend to a nice lunch to help us Celebrate, the upcoming marriage, and became best of friends after.

Exactly the way it works in the Philippines, don't matter if your getting a marriage license or doing other business with national, region, or local government tell them what you need and then do what they say you need to do.

I found many years ago no law, rule or regulation is written in stone in the Phills, how they interrupt the laws in different parts of the Phills may differ greatly. Some may think paying a judge a couple of thousand peso's to release a marriage license early is a bribe or it is illegal, this is crazy. Your a visitor in a foreign country all you can do is ask, and then do what they tell you to do. It's their country they know the laws better that a visitor does.

When I was married in the Phills on our planned wedding date the weather forecast called for 100% change of heavy rain and local flooding. Since we were having a outside civil wedding this was bad news, during the pre marriage counseling the judge that was doing the counseling suggested we get married a few days early to avoid getting the wedding and the reception ruined because of the weather. I told him that the 10 day wait would not be up until the 11th of the month and we getting married on the 12th. He said no problem with that, it's just a notice to get anyone a chance to object to the wedding, this is more for locals not real important for a foreigner. He did not ask for a bribe he was happy to allow this.

If you have plenty of time "3 weeks" then by all means follow the family code of the Philippines, but if you are time limited then have your fiancée check with the local government officials, explain the situation and see if anything can be done to speed up the process. In the end if you have get a NSO "CENMAR" (MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE) you will have a legal marriage, this is all the Embassy cares about, not if you waited 10 days.

If anyone has knowledge of someone who had a visa denied, or a marriage declared void because they did not wait for 10 days for the marriage license to be released I would like to hear from them............

[GaryKO 49]

If he was a U.S. citizen at the time of his marriage, he doesn't need a Philippines court to recognize his divorce, nor does he need to get an annulment. He can request a CENOMAR right now and the NSO will issue him a CEMAR (Advisory on Marriages).

This is correct, the marriage certificate, and the divorce decree "judicial decree" from us court.

[Artisan 138]

divorce decree "judicial decree" from us court.

Which must be recognized by a Philippine court in order to be filed with the NSO. If you are an American Citizen nothing prevents you from getting married nearly anywhere in the world with a US issued divorce decree. However, if you are an American citizen, that has been married in the Philippines or had your marriage registered with a Philippines Embassy or Consulate, you do need to have the divorce decree recognized legally by the courts in the Philippines.

For the vast majority of American citizens that is nothing more than having a lawyer and judge sign off on a few pieces of paper. In some rare cases, most notably when the petitioner of the divorce was the Filipino citizen or the American citizen holds dual citizenship, the courts may NOT recognize the divorce decree and require the marriage be annulled before allowing the US citizen, that according to the NSO is still married locally, to be married again in the Philippines. This does not stop the American citizen from getting married in the US, but will possibly cause problems for their spouse when they resister the new marriage with the NSO because the US Citizen is still listed as being married to their original spouse.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Artisan

[GaryKO 49]

Which must be recognized by a Philippine court in order to be filed with the NSO. If you are an American Citizen nothing prevents you from getting married nearly anywhere in the world with a US issued divorce decree. However, if you are an American citizen, that has been married in the Philippines or had your marriage registered with a Philippines Embassy or Consulate, you do need to have the divorce decree recognized legally by the courts in the Philippines.

For the vast majority of American citizens that is nothing more than having a lawyer and judge sign off on a few pieces of paper. In some rare cases, most notably when the petitioner of the divorce was the Filipino citizen or the American citizen holds dual citizenship, the courts may NOT recognize the divorce decree and require the marriage be annulled before allowing the US citizen, that according to the NSO is still married locally, to be married again in the Philippines. This does not stop the American citizen from getting married in the US, but will possibly cause problems for their spouse when they resister the new marriage with the NSO because the US Citizen is still listed as being married to their original spouse.

I know this is hard to understand, but the only time you need the Philippines to judicially recognized a foreign divorce is if your a Filipino citizen, or a former Filipino citizen and not a US citizen at the time you were married in the PI, if you were a US citizen at the time you were married in the Philippines then later divorced in the US then you don't need the Philippines to do anything special to recognize your divorce, they already recognize it because your a non-citizen and your not subject to Philippine law concerning divorce. You are free to remarry in the Philippines.

As for as the Filipino spouse it depends if they are still a green card holder, or a US citizen, or a Dual Citizen . This is who would need to have judicial decree in Philippine courts to declare the Filipino spouse qualified to remarry.

Where a marriage between a Filipino citizen and a foreigner is validly celebrated and a divorce is thereafter validly obtained abroad by the alien spouse capacitating him or her to remarry, the Filipino spouse shall have capacity to remarry under Philippine law. Some exceptions to this apply.

As for as US citizens are concerned they treat a divorce to a Filipino citizen just like any divorce to a non-Filipino citizen. You just show all your divorce papers when you file for the marriage application. That is the only time it will come up, and of course at the CFO.

Been there and did all of that, never had a problem.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Mimi and Gary

[Artisan 138]

As for as US citizens are concerned they treat a divorce to a Filipino citizen just like any divorce to a non-Filipino citizen. You just show all your divorce papers when you file for the marriage application. That is the only time it will come up, and of course at the CFO.

Been there and did all of that, never had a problem.

What you are missing, and two people I personally know have encountered, is that once their names are listed on a marriage certificate with the NSO they will continue to appear as married there. When the NSO files the new marriage license the NSO will flag the foreigner as already being married and the new marriage will not be valid. If you are divorced the foreign divorce decree is all that is needed for the Embassy to issue an affidavit of freedom to marry. The Embassy and the civil registrar will generally not look closely to see if the former spouse was Filipino or not as that's not their job. The problem appears when the paperwork finally makes it to the NSO. The NSO typically will not accept a foreign divorce decree without a judiciary signing off on it.

Of the two couples I know that encountered this problem one found out after the fact and was told to seek an annulment because the Filipina was the one that had filed for divorce in the US and the lawyer told him that even though it really wasn't required by the law, the judge could refuse to sign off on the divorce decree because the Filipina was unable to remarry herself. The other paid a lawyer ahead of time to file the proper motion and had the recognized divorce decree in hand when he landed in the Philippines.

Is it possible that some people slip through the NSO and are not flagged? Sure. Is it really a problem to get the divorce decree recognized? No, and it could save people a lot of headaches down the line. All the courts are trying to do is make sure the divorce is a) not initiated by the Filipino citizen and b) legal under the laws of the foreign government.

As I am sure people are going to ask for proof of what I am talking about I will provide a bit of case law.

http://sc.judiciary.gov.ph/jurisprudence/2001/oct2001/138322.htm

A divorce obtained abroad by an alien may be recognized in our jurisdiction, provided such decree is valid according to the national law of the foreigner. However, the divorce decree and the governing personal law of the alien spouse who obtained the divorce must be proven. Our courts do not take judicial notice of foreign laws and judgments; hence, like any other facts, both the divorce decree and the national law of the alien must be alleged and proven according to our law on evidence.

The reason this case is at the heart of the matter is because of the first issue brought about from the judgement highlights another case which set the standard.

Van Dorn v. Romillo Jr. decrees that “aliens may obtain divorces abroad, which may be recognized in the Philippines, provided they are valid according to their national law.” Therefore, before a foreign divorce decree can be recognized by our courts, the party pleading it must prove the divorce as a fact and demonstrate its conformity to the foreign law allowing it. Presentation solely of the divorce decree is insufficient.

[Joshuaching 11]

If you did not send a copy of your previous marriage certificate and complete the needed paperwork to NSO being your were married and divorced in the USA neither is on record with NSO. You have to file those to get them recorded in the Phils so if you did not get them recorded in the Philipinnes there is no record.

You not being a citizen of the Philippines I doubt you can get much of anything done with NSO, let alone be in their computer.

Once the marriage certificate is sent to the National Statistics Office (NSO Philippines), the document is recorded on both husband and wife's name. The OPs record would surely be there. Don't think for one moment that because he's a foreigner, no record is kept of him there.

Your divorce papers have to be filed in the Philippine court for it to be recognized and this takes time; time that you do not have in your hands. What is helpful is that NOT ALL municipalities in the Philippines require a CENOMAR for the foreign groom, so you can go this route.

[Hank_ 9,174]

If he was a U.S. citizen at the time of his marriage, he doesn't need a Philippines court to recognize his divorce, nor does he need to get an annulment. He can request a CENOMAR right now and the NSO will issue him a CEMAR (Advisory on Marriages).

Correct. Which is why he will need to get the divorce recorded in the Phils so that a CENOMAR can be issued (if he actually needs one), being he wants to marry in the Phils.

[ca_babe 129]

What you are missing, and two people I personally know have encountered, is that once their names are listed on a marriage certificate with the NSO they will continue to appear as married there. When the NSO files the new marriage license the NSO will flag the foreigner as already being married and the new marriage will not be valid. If you are divorced the foreign divorce decree is all that is needed for the Embassy to issue an affidavit of freedom to marry. The Embassy and the civil registrar will generally not look closely to see if the former spouse was Filipino or not as that's not their job. The problem appears when the paperwork finally makes it to the NSO. The NSO typically will not accept a foreign divorce decree without a judiciary signing off on it.

Of the two couples I know that encountered this problem one found out after the fact and was told to seek an annulment because the Filipina was the one that had filed for divorce in the US and the lawyer told him that even though it really wasn't required by the law, the judge could refuse to sign off on the divorce decree because the Filipina was unable to remarry herself. The other paid a lawyer ahead of time to file the proper motion and had the recognized divorce decree in hand when he landed in the Philippines.

Is it possible that some people slip through the NSO and are not flagged? Sure. Is it really a problem to get the divorce decree recognized? No, and it could save people a lot of headaches down the line. All the courts are trying to do is make sure the divorce is a) not initiated by the Filipino citizen and b) legal under the laws of the foreign government.

As I am sure people are going to ask for proof of what I am talking about I will provide a bit of case law.

http://sc.judiciary....2001/138322.htm

The reason this case is at the heart of the matter is because of the first issue brought about from the judgement highlights another case which set the standard.

The link that you gave above is for a naturalized Australian citizen. The OP is not a Naturalized American. I still think you're right though, that he has to have his divorce decree recorded in the NSO. It'll be good if you can post a link to a case where a non-naturalized US citizen is involved.

[GaryKO 49]

What you are missing, and two people I personally know have encountered, is that once their names are listed on a marriage certificate with the NSO they will continue to appear as married there. When the NSO files the new marriage license the NSO will flag the foreigner as already being married and the new marriage will not be valid. If you are divorced the foreign divorce decree is all that is needed for the Embassy to issue an affidavit of freedom to marry. The Embassy and the civil registrar will generally not look closely to see if the former spouse was Filipino or not as that's not their job. The problem appears when the paperwork finally makes it to the NSO. The NSO typically will not accept a foreign divorce decree without a judiciary signing off on it.

Of the two couples I know that encountered this problem one found out after the fact and was told to seek an annulment because the Filipina was the one that had filed for divorce in the US and the lawyer told him that even though it really wasn't required by the law, the judge could refuse to sign off on the divorce decree because the Filipina was unable to remarry herself. The other paid a lawyer ahead of time to file the proper motion and had the recognized divorce decree in hand when he landed in the Philippines.

Is it possible that some people slip through the NSO and are not flagged? Sure. Is it really a problem to get the divorce decree recognized? No, and it could save people a lot of headaches down the line. All the courts are trying to do is make sure the divorce is a) not initiated by the Filipino citizen and b) legal under the laws of the foreign government.

As I am sure people are going to ask for proof of what I am talking about I will provide a bit of case law.

http://sc.judiciary.gov.ph/jurisprudence/2001/oct2001/138322.htm

The reason this case is at the heart of the matter is because of the first issue brought about from the judgement highlights another case which set the standard.

Oh I see the problem now! You are not aware that the Philipine congress amended the Family Code. It was always easy in mixed marriages for the alien spouse to divorce his Filipino spouse in another county then remarry in the Philippines without having to get the Philippine court to sign off on the divorce. Now I'm sure there were some cases where they owned property or maybe kids involved or other reasons that caused the need to get the Philippine court to approve foreign divorces. In the majority of cases the alien spouse only needed the divorce decree to get a marriage license in the Philippines.

The Supreme ruling you reference which states that a foreign divorce decree be recognized before it can be enforced by the court in the Philippines made in one sided, the alien was free to remarry anywhere, but the Filipino spouse could was not free to remarry unless first getting the foreign divorce recognized in the Philippines, even in the foreign country where the divorce was granted.

This was amended a couple of times and most recent this year. Now marriage in cases where divorce is validly obtained abroad the alien spouse and recognizes divorce obtained by the alien spouse in another country without the need to seek judicial recognition or enforcement of the foreign judicial degree of absolute divorce.

The amended law overturns the 2001 ruling and now make it easier for the Filipino spouse it puts both the alien spouse and the Filipino spouse on equal playing fields. Now if the alien spouse divorces the Filipino spouse in a foreign country all the Filipino spouse needs to send a copy of the divorce to the Philippine embassy in the country where the divorce was obtained. The measure also provides that the registration of the Foreign Judicial Decree of Absolute Divorce in the Civil Registry shall be sufficient enough for the issuance of marriage license.

Some restrictions still apply, like if a Filipino marries another Filipino then later becomes a citizen of a foreign country then divorces his Filipino spouse the new changes would not apply.

[ca_babe 129]

Oh I see the problem now! You are not aware that the Philipine congress amended the Family Code. It was always easy in mixed marriages for the alien spouse to divorce his Filipino spouse in another county then remarry in the Philippines without having to get the Philippine court to sign off on the divorce. Now I'm sure there were some cases where they owned property or maybe kids involved or other reasons that caused the need to get the Philippine court to approve foreign divorces. In the majority of cases the alien spouse only needed the divorce decree to get a marriage license in the Philippines.

The Supreme ruling you reference which states that a foreign divorce decree be recognized before it can be enforced by the court in the Philippines made in one sided, the alien was free to remarry anywhere, but the Filipino spouse could was not free to remarry unless first getting the foreign divorce recognized in the Philippines, even in the foreign country where the divorce was granted.

This was amended a couple of times and most recent this year. Now marriage in cases where divorce is validly obtained abroad the alien spouse and recognizes divorce obtained by the alien spouse in another country without the need to seek judicial recognition or enforcement of the foreign judicial degree of absolute divorce.

The amended law overturns the 2001 ruling and now make it easier for the Filipino spouse it puts both the alien spouse and the Filipino spouse on equal playing fields. Now if the alien spouse divorces the Filipino spouse in a foreign country all the Filipino spouse needs to send a copy of the divorce to the Philippine embassy in the country where the divorce was obtained. The measure also provides that the registration of the Foreign Judicial Decree of Absolute Divorce in the Civil Registry shall be sufficient enough for the issuance of marriage license.

Some restrictions still apply, like if a Filipino marries another Filipino then later becomes a citizen of a foreign country then divorces his Filipino spouse the new changes would not apply.

Do you have the link to the new changes?

[GaryKO 49]

Do you have the link to the new changes?

http://208.184.76.171/headlines/657855/senate-passes-bills-amending-family-code

http://www.noodls.com/view/6242C3747AFA82A4DC62F08068E7D2FD8165FE22

http://www.congress.gov.ph/download/basic_15/HB04368.pdf

[Christine n Carl 0]

http://208.184.76.17...ing-family-code

http://www.noodls.co...8E7D2FD8165FE22

http://www.congress...._15/HB04368.pdf

Ok I see the new changes in the family law.

I know how to get a Consular Authentication Of Judical Divorce decree in US.

How do I use it to get NSO to fix my record so we can get CENOMAR for myself as required by civil registrar.

I swear this is so difficult finding correct answers. I call Philippine Consolute, they have no idea,

Any help is appreciated.

[Artisan 138]

The link that you gave above is for a naturalized Australian citizen. The OP is not a Naturalized American. I still think you're right though, that he has to have his divorce decree recorded in the NSO. It'll be good if you can post a link to a case where a non-naturalized US citizen is involved.

Actually Ediitha Samson was just an Australian citizen period. She was the first wife. The case deals with the Naturalized husband being sued by his second wife, a Filipina because the court had not recognized Mr. Recio's divorce that had been completed in Australia. The case didn't revolve around whether Ms. Samson could remarry because it was a non-issue at the time, but the facts of the case brought to light the problem that because the divorce degree was not recognized by the government Mr. Recio and Ms. Samson were still legally married in the Philippines. This made Mr. Recio a bigamist and his second wife was suing him for it. The court determined that as long as evidence was provided to the court, and not just the divorce decree, that the foreign divorce decree was valid under the foreign law then the divorce was valid in the Philippines.

Because the marriage, at the time, was still 'on the books' in the Philippines if Ms. Samson (a non-Filipino citizen) had attempted to remarry in the Philippines, she too could have been guilty of bigamy. This is why you need to have judicial recognition of the divorce decree.

The whole issue we've been dealing with is that the OP is still considered married by the NSO and will be listed as such until the local courts recognize the foreign divorce decree which requires an evidentiary hearing in the Philippines. The Affidavit of Freedom to Marry is not considered evidence and only allows you to get the marriage license. When the marriage is recorded at the NSO the problem of his previous marriage will be made manifest. Fixing this isn't hard to do, just a bit time consuming.

How do I use it to get NSO to fix my record so we can get CENOMAR for myself as required by civil registrar.

I swear this is so difficult finding correct answers. I call Philippine Consolute, they have no idea,

Any help is appreciated.

You would be best off having your fiance contact a local attorney that is willing to communicate and do business by email. Let him know you need to have a 'Judicial Recognition of a Divorce Judgment or Decree' as you are registered with the NSO as being currently married to a Filipina. He'll let you know what paperwork you need to send and you'll probably need to sign a special power of attorney to have him register the judicial recognition with the NSO which may require you to travel to the local Philippine Embassy or Consulate. Be sure to get a lawyer that has handled divorce decrees in the past as not all lawyers know what may be required since Family Law concerning foreigners is a bit of a specialized field.

I wish you the best of luck and I hope your new marriage goes well.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Artisan