If secession were to come up for a vote in your state...

[Penny Lane 8,159]

[Danno 1,228]

Actually, it's only the revisionists who deny the facts surrounding the events that led up to the Civil War. It is clear, historically, that the issue of slavery was at the center of the conflict. Initially, the southern states complained that the free states were disregarding slave owners rightful ownership of property by refusing to return slaves who had escaped. They wanted the Federal Gov't. to step in and enforce their Right of Property. The southern states only decided to secede when they felt the free states were not following along the same rules.

....

"The Civil War was not fundamentally about "states rights". Asserting a state's right to secede doesn't speak to why the state wants to secede. When the northern states were threatened by the War of 1812, they considered secession. When South Carolina was threatened by a tariff, they attempted to nullify the law. When a state's self interests come into play, they'll take advantage of whatever political mechanism they can imagine to assert that self interest, up to and including nullification, secession, and war.

The real story is not in the political mechanics but the underlying interest in preserving slavery that forced the South to become so hell bent on their "states rights". If Northern states had seceded over the War of 1812, we wouldn't assert the fundamental cause was a debate over state's rights. Rather we'd say it was their opposition to the War of 1812. The same applies for the South's secession as well. Their interest in preserving slavery drove them to use untested constitutional mechanism and eventually go to war.

And when you consider the South's conundrum it becomes clearer.

White southerners lived in constant, real fear of slavery/black insurrection. They had experienced violence from slaves during Turner's Rebellion. They looked south to the Haitian Revolution and similar rebellions in the sugar colonies and saw little comfort in how those societies were transformed. Maintaining the institutions associated with slavery was a matter of life/death for white southerners. Laws were passed to further and further restrict the activities of slaves and freed blacks and codify racial distinctions. Even if the injustice of the system might be acknowledged by some southerners, the fear that slaves or freed blacks might (perhaps justifiably) seek vengeance was deep."

http://history.stack...de-from-the-u-s

Did you seriously copy and paste something from an online message board?

Who knew.... others might be doing the same with my posts from VJ and sharing them all across the web..... guess my opinion is more important than I even knew.

[Danno 1,228]

The pledge of allegiance seems to imply that every citizen of the United States recognizes the indivisibility of the union.

I do not believe secession is an option at this point. At least, not a legal secession.

Forgive my correction but.... The PLedge does not say "one union, indivisible"

it doesn't even use "one country, indivisible"

rather they chose the word Nation which is different then country or union.

nation |ˈnā sh ən|

noun

a large aggregate of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory.

Are we a nation UNITED by -

Common decent

History

culture

language

No, so I move to ban the PLedge as we have grown beyond it's meaning.

[Danno 1,228]

Secession is coming but no need to be so certain it will only be White folks ringing the Bell.

Actually if Texas does not secede today..... there may be a whole new movement in a few decades as Hispanics across the S.W. may very well want their own country for their nation.

That actually makes more logistic sense.

[^_^ 5,021]

Hey, I know - they can call it Aztlan!

How long has it been since we had a good Aztlan thread on VJ?

[Penny Lane 8,159]

Secession is coming but no need to be so certain it will only be White folks ringing the Bell.

Actually if Texas does not secede today..... there may be a whole new movement in a few decades as Hispanics across the S.W. may very well want their own country for their nation.

That actually makes more logistic sense.

Well we all know that minorities only voted for Obama (and we know why) so I'm willing to bet the majority of people signing these silly petitions are indeed white.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Secession is coming but no need to be so certain it will only be White folks ringing the Bell.

Actually if Texas does not secede today..... there may be a whole new movement in a few decades as Hispanics across the S.W. may very well want their own country for their nation.

That actually makes more logistic sense.

California is Mexico. I hear that all the time. BTW, they are including all of historic California, so they want pretty much everything west of the Rockies, that was not part of Czarist Russia, although the Russians did explore and trap as far south as Bodega Bay, just north of San Francisco.

Edited November 16, 2012 by The Patriot

[Danno 1,228]

Well we all know that minorities only voted for Obama (and we know why) so I'm willing to bet the majority of people signing these silly petitions are indeed white.

I think my post speculated a bit farther into the future than today, can you address the post I made and not your cartoon?

[Penny Lane 8,159]

I think my post speculated a bit farther into the future than today, can you address the post I made and not your cartoon?

No.

[SMOKE 1,426]

Well we all know that minorities only voted for Obama (and we know why) so I'm willing to bet the majority of people signing these silly petitions are indeed white.

wanna bet who gets randomly audited by the IRS next year?

i said that to a guy at my work, right after he signed the petition. his butt still has a death grip on his underwear.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

California is Mexico.

Mexico or the Pacific. Either way you guys are gone.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Mexico or the Pacific. Either way you guys are gone.

I am East of the San Andreas, and North of the Golden Gate, so I am good, either way.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I am East of the San Andreas, and North of the Golden Gate, so I am good, either way.

Maybe you can for asylum in Oregon.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Maybe you can for asylum in Oregon.

Or Nevada. I always wanted to open a brothel, but the wife won't let me. She gets jealous.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Or Nevada. I always wanted to open a brothel, but the wife won't let me. She gets jealous.

Yeah that tends to get in the way.