Ohio Cuts Benifits

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Vermont has a generous welfare system of course. It is the "bluest state" and the first declared for Obama in both his elections with the highest margin of victory. One of our Senators is a liberal Democrat, the other is a Socialist who will not join the Democrat party because they are too conservative. When the Feds cut heating assistance, the state immeditely jumped in and replaced the funds.

I have never once said this is political and ONLY the people who have supported these programs all along seem to think it is terrible someone is using them. They accuse this of being a political temper tantrum when it is simply a matmatical equation. Each new or expanded benefit makes it easier for more people to replace work with welfare. What do they expect? I CAN do the math.

The people that support these programs accuse people of being lazy or pathetic for using them...and sound just like Republicans with slurs about "poor people"

Even you, one of two liberals who seems to have a clue, devolve into this. Why?

I have laid out the mathmatics of it over and over. For what reason should I work hard to EARN the extra $3000 per month when the government will take money from what YOU earn and GIVE me the $3000? Personal satisfaction? Nice, but not worth $3000 per month. Now if I/we could make $5000 per month more or $6000 per month more...OK, I get it, but right now we cannot. Better to cut back, dive below the maguc number and get all those benefits rolling in. Liberals want it that way and they WON the election so that means the majority of the people in the country agree with me. Right?

I have never said I was wealthy and am not. I did, at one time, run a little game saying I had paid for my heart surgery CASH which drove the liberals completely apoplectic! How DARE anyone pay cash for medical treatment. Sometimes I do that just for fun. Beats the usual ####### for tat "debate" of one liners we see here. That's so boring. Read that whole thread, it is an awesome display of "tantrums". I did later admit it was just a discussion point and it served my purpose, but that seems to get lost. Imagine that. Fact is, y'all think you know so much about my family but you may not know anything. I really do not like the usual posting of biased charts and graphs and one line sound bites. I mush prefer the scenario, the skit, the role playing. Being the devils advocate. Tossing out the scenario, creating a role of the villian, the ####### Dastardly. THEN you get to see the real reactions of "compassionate people" toward their fellow man.

But the liberals, instead of seeing this for what it is...a use of what they "built" (I love that one, "we built that") It MUST be a temper tantrum because Romney lost. I voted for Johnson! I must be pathetic, lazy, going to lose my position as a Sugar Daddy, not wealthy, had a change of health....SOMETHING! ANYTHING... except the truth. The truth is the system carves a hole in the middle class, negates the reason for being middle class, eliminates any return for working above a certain wage and under another...and I am going to jump through the hole. In this state it is a pretty big hole and falls right in the range of the state's average income. Which means people on welfare live about average for this state. To here the politicians tell it, that IS the idea.

Who would have guessed?

Now, benefits vary by state and Vermont is a good one, probably not the best, but probably in the top 5. The only difference is the "sliding scale", the size of the "welfare hole" in the middle class. But it exists in every state. When taxes go up 13% January 1 and who knows how much after that, more people will figure this out and jump through the hole. More people on welfare, more people demanding welfare, more welfare programs approved by Democrats.

This is no different than the illegal alien "problem" Politically created. In 2014 Obamacare is going to add $1.40 per hour to the cost of employing someone full time...legally. The cost of employing an illegal? -0- except less than minimum wage. Employers hire them for economic reasons. The economic reason is politically created but the employers do not care about politics, they care about money. They hire illegals to increase the money in their pocket.

I am doing the same. It is not political on my part but the situation I am taking advantage of is politically created.

I don't expect any of you liberals to understand basic mathmatics, so carry on with discussions of how I am throwing a temper tantrum. When you have a chance, pay attention to what happens to the welfare, medicaid and food stamp numbers over the next couple of years. In the meantime, please continue what doing what is expected of you.

Please keep working.

I don't think I accused you of being lazy or pathetic.

I did question what your financial picture has been like. After thinking about a lot of what you write, I tend to think your situation is mostly about having poor choices. Which is never about how hard someone works. If your employer can't do any better than offer you coverage that costs $800 a month - well that's a crappy choice.

IMO your situation is more of an example of how corporate America has gotten away from valuing its workers through benefits. Not an example of how society is creating a welfare dependent state. Indeed, if by working you can't earn a good wage and good health cover, what else is a person to do besides "dive below the magic number"?

I guess it depends on whether you choose to look at the solution as the problem, or the root cause.

*edited for sloppy typing*

Edited November 16, 2012 by Rebecca Jo

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I don't think I accused you of being lazy or pathetic.

I did question what your financial picture has been like. After thinking about a lot of what you write, I tend to think your situation is mostly about having poor choices. Which is never about how hard someone works. If your employer can't do any better than offer you coverage that costs $800 a month - well that's a crappy choice.

IMO your situation is more of an example of how corporate America has gotten away from valuing its workers through benefits. Not an example of how society is creating a welfare dependent state. Indeed, if by working you can't earn a good wage and good health cover, what else is a person to do besides "dive below the magic number"?

I guess it depends on whether you choose to look at the solution as the problem, or the root cause.

*edited for sloppy typing*

You can blame who you wish I suppose. I am merely commenting on the facts of the system in this country. The system, obviously, contains several components. I am not sure you can say any ONE is the "problem" and they seem to be independent of each other EXCEPT the common denominator has been government. Employers offer medical benefits because during WW2 the government froze wages and did so again in the 1970's (Republican Richard Nixon did it) and corporations responded by offering benefits in lieu of wages. Medical insurance "stuck" and became a staple of employment. Nixon's freeze introduced vehicle allowances, clothing allowances and the famous "three martini lunch" and some other perks, perhaps not as pervasive as insurance.

I am not sure my choices are "poor" unless you consider government insurance a poor choice. It is one of the choices I have. In 2014 all Vermont residents will have it, for now it is for the "uninsured" and those falling below the income level required (which is much higher than for food stamps). After giving this a lot of study and consideration, it is clear that this "hole" exists in the middle class income for everyone. The size and level of the hole varies depnding on one's current costs vs. one's benefits. My medical insurance costs make the hole particularly big for my family, but it exists for everyone. There is a point for everyone between which they are working for nothing. Ultimately one would wish to be just below that point, which I will be, or WAY above it. Which I cannot be right now, but may be able to achieve in a couple years.

This really is not about being angry with the election. I actually couldn't care less about that. I had no illusions that Romney was actually going to change anything.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

You can start here Gary, there's many more posts of you bragging about your lavish lifestyle and putting other people down for not having the things you have and leading the fantastic life that you and Alla do. How do you afford that lavish lifestyle without being wealthy? All of the trips to the Ukraine, Europe, and Canada, home on Lake Champlain with a private beach, the ski resort memberships, the college tuitions, etc, etc. You were either lying when you made the post below, or you're lying now about going on welfare, either way it turns up, you're a liar. My telling you to grow a pair was not in regard to you going on welfare, it was in regard to you bragging about it. You continuosly post on VJ that RUB women only like real men. Real men don't carry on whining like a two year old and then brag about going on welfare. The fact that you didn't get that, means I was spot on with the comment.

Where does it say I am wealthy? It says I am making use of the wonderful area where we live that allows us to enjoy all these things very cheap. Even going to Europe, we pays HUNDREDS of $$$ less for tickets to Europe from JFK than most of you pay. There is no cheaper airport to fly out of to Europe. I can usually get better prices to Amsterdam than to Dallas and the flight is about as long. Do you want to know what dance lessons cost? $15 per week for two lessons! Someone may pay nearly that much for a dinner cocktail, we don't drink. Fun dancing is FREE with only a cover charge if you want to partake of the refreshments, and even that is cheap, usually $3 per person. OMG! How can we afford it?

This is pathetic, truly pathetic.

Incidentally that post was in response to another member with a Canadian flag that said Alla only cooks and cleans house and has a boring life. And then responded that no one cared what she did. Guess she was wrong, eh Teddy? You seem pretty fascinated by it. Maybe you should move to Vermont and enjoy life. You seem angry.

[Teddy B 17,252]

Where does it say I am wealthy? It says I am making use of the wonderful area where we live that allows us to enjoy all these things very cheap. Even going to Europe, we pays HUNDREDS of $$$ less for tickets to Europe from JFK than most of you pay. There is no cheaper airport to fly out of to Europe. I can usually get better prices to Amsterdam than to Dallas and the flight is about as long. Do you want to know what dance lessons cost? $15 per week for two lessons! Someone may pay nearly that much for a dinner cocktail, we don't drink. Fun dancing is FREE with only a cover charge if you want to partake of the refreshments, and even that is cheap, usually $3 per person. OMG! How can we afford it?

This is pathetic, truly pathetic.

Incidentally that post was in response to another member with a Canadian flag that said Alla only cooks and cleans house and has a boring life. And then responded that no one cared what she did. Guess she was wrong, eh Teddy? You seem pretty fascinated by it. Maybe you should move to Vermont and enjoy life. You seem angry.

Two emotionally charged replies to one post. Got yer undies in a bunch, eh Gary! I wonder what Alla would think if she could see her "man" now.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Two emotionally charged replies to one post. Got yer undies in a bunch, eh Gary! I wonder what Alla would think if she could see her "man" now.

Couldn't stand that you weren't taking the first bait so he had to throw another. See what government teat does to you?

[Teddy B 17,252]

Couldn't stand that you weren't taking the first bait so he had to throw another. See what government teat does to you?

I just hope he gets his Medicaid card quickly, he's gonna need it.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I just hope he gets his Medicaid card quickly, he's gonna need it.

Does Medicare cover frustration?

[Teddy B 17,252]

Does Medicare cover frustration?

I hope so for Alla's sake.

How the "mighty" have fallen!