Fraud / I-184 Withdrawal before Removal of Conditions

[PurrSuede 0]

The biggest proof of good faith marriage is your child. Cant say that he did not enter into marriage in good faith because regardless of anything of anything, you have a child. Most times children are the proff USCIS is looking for

I think having a child does little of anything to prove or disprove "entering a marriage in good faith".

And I don't think you can speak for what the USCIS looks for, or doesn't look for..

Having a child doesn't prove anyone's intentions, except maybe that there was a physical relationship.

that does not by and of itself constitute a "bona fide" marriage, and if you read through other threads, there are material and tangible evidences of a legitimate relationship that the USCIS looks for.

My opinion for what it's worth, but I don't claim to speak for the USCIS.

-- Dan

Thank you to everyone who has supplied constructive and or supportive comments.

It’s not so much that I’m intent on him being deported out of bitterness. I just don’t want to be the one to make that decision- it’s an ENORMOUS burden and really not my right. That’s USCIS’ job. IMO if I don’t speak up and say “this is actually what happened”, than I’m not doing right by me and certainly not teaching my daughters what they should expect in the way of good treatment by a man, my sons what is an acceptable way to act or treat a women, or any of them any regard for the law. If he’s denied Permanent Residency and cannot be here with our daughter, it’s through his own doing, and he needs to answer to our daughter, not me. This is where my thinking has changed over the past few months- it’s not my job to protect him for her sake. As far as child support goes, I don’t ever expect to get awarded any anyway because his earning potential is so little.

OK, off my soap box

Soooosad... having been through a similar situation as yours, I did report what I believed to be some fraudulent manipulation to the USCIS, and provided them with the divorce decree and other documentation.

I don't know if it will make any difference or not, but the bottom line is I did what I thought was right, and after all, I'm the one who has to look myself in the mirror every day.

So you do what you feel is right, and remember this person certainly didn't hold up their side of their bargain in a legitimate marriage. After all ~you~ petitioned them to arrive here and to be married to you...

When my marriage went south I saw nothing contradictory in informing the USCIS of some of the things that went on, and if nothing else, informed them as well that we were no longer legally married.

I did what I thought was right and I will never regret it.

-- Dan

[Boiler 45,972]

Thank you to everyone who has supplied constructive and or supportive comments.

Diaddie, what I have been planning on doing follows your advice- simply to write a letter outlining the course of events that, when looked at as a whole, indicate (imho) that he did not enter into our marriage in good faith. I do realize that adultery would not be considered proof of this, and don’t plan on requesting any particular outcome. I am going to schedule an INFOPASS appointment to discuss with an Officer what will be the effect of submitting this "withdrawal of support" letter at this stage is the game, when we have more than a year until the Conditional period is up. If the written withdrawal of my support is simply symbolic at this point because it will not put him out of status, then that's OK.

The general opinion seems to be that his ability to lift conditions once the divorce is final is almost guaranteed. What I have read is that in order to do this he must submit proof of his "good faith" to support his waiver. In my wildest imagination I can't imagine what he could pull together, and if USCIS already has my written statement and some documentation to the contrary, isn't there a chance the lifting of conditions could be denied?

It’s not so much that I’m intent on him being deported out of bitterness. I just don’t want to be the one to make that decision- it’s an ENORMOUS burden and really not my right. That’s USCIS’ job. IMO if I don’t speak up and say “this is actually what happened”, than I’m not doing right by me and certainly not teaching my daughters what they should expect in the way of good treatment by a man, my sons what is an acceptable way to act or treat a women, or any of them any regard for the law. If he’s denied Permanent Residency and cannot be here with our daughter, it’s through his own doing, and he needs to answer to our daughter, not me. This is where my thinking has changed over the past few months- it’s not my job to protect him for her sake. As far as child support goes, I don’t ever expect to get awarded any anyway because his earning potential is so little.

OK, off my soap box

1. There is no withdrawl of support letter, you can not withdraw support.

2. The USCIS will not act on your letter. there is nothing for them to do.

3. His application to remve conditions is his problem, it would probably be unusual not to have a 'combative' spouse, all that matters is that he shows the marriage was valid when he applied for his GC, a child would make it very difficult for a finding that it was a marriage of convenience to obtain immigration benefit.

[maya62 7]

A few thoughts on a child as evidence of the validity of a relationship and/or evidence against a charge of fraud:

If a female USC becomes pregnant by her non-USC spouse and bears a child, the weight of that as evidence does not seem nearly as convincing as if a female non-USC bears a child by a USC spouse. For one thing, the "commitment" demonstrated by 9 months of pregnancy followed by childbirth is largely on the part of the female, not to mention care of the infant in most cases. For another, the financial obligation potentially to be imposed on the male of the couple is likely to be taken more seriously by a USC/I-864 signer (not that the I-864 says anything about children, just that he already has a financial obligation to the mother, so abandoning both of them would theoretically be more serious than your average run-of-the-mill deadbeat dad's non-support), than by a non-USC fraudster who may have plans on disappearing anyhow.

That said, all a child really proves is that two people had sex one night (and even then, sometimes, a paternity test might be appropriate).

All of the above is no more than random thoughts about a child as evidence. It is not meant in anyway to reflect on the OP, for whom I feel nothing but empathy. Nor is it meant to minimize the significance of children in any way... they are, I am learning as a first-time mom of one year to a 10-year-old boy, a joy and a challenge like no other in life. And proof of the existence of karma

Best wishes to the OP. Your most recently posted approach seems balanced to me.

Maya

[diadromous mermaid 36]

Thank you to everyone who has supplied constructive and or supportive comments.

Diaddie, what I have been planning on doing follows your advice- simply to write a letter outlining the course of events that, when looked at as a whole, indicate (imho) that he did not enter into our marriage in good faith. I do realize that adultery would not be considered proof of this, and don’t plan on requesting any particular outcome. I am going to schedule an INFOPASS appointment to discuss with an Officer what will be the effect of submitting this "withdrawal of support" letter at this stage is the game, when we have more than a year until the Conditional period is up. If the written withdrawal of my support is simply symbolic at this point because it will not put him out of status, then that's OK.

The general opinion seems to be that his ability to lift conditions once the divorce is final is almost guaranteed. What I have read is that in order to do this he must submit proof of his "good faith" to support his waiver. In my wildest imagination I can't imagine what he could pull together, and if USCIS already has my written statement and some documentation to the contrary, isn't there a chance the lifting of conditions could be denied?

It’s not so much that I’m intent on him being deported out of bitterness. I just don’t want to be the one to make that decision- it’s an ENORMOUS burden and really not my right. That’s USCIS’ job. IMO if I don’t speak up and say “this is actually what happened”, than I’m not doing right by me and certainly not teaching my daughters what they should expect in the way of good treatment by a man, my sons what is an acceptable way to act or treat a women, or any of them any regard for the law. If he’s denied Permanent Residency and cannot be here with our daughter, it’s through his own doing, and he needs to answer to our daughter, not me. This is where my thinking has changed over the past few months- it’s not my job to protect him for her sake. As far as child support goes, I don’t ever expect to get awarded any anyway because his earning potential is so little.

OK, off my soap box

1. There is no withdrawl of support letter, you can not withdraw support.

2. The USCIS will not act on your letter. there is nothing for them to do.

3. His application to remve conditions is his problem, it would probably be unusual not to have a 'combative' spouse, all that matters is that he shows the marriage was valid when he applied for his GC, a child would make it very difficult for a finding that it was a marriage of convenience to obtain immigration benefit.

Boiler,

While I agree that sooosad cannot withdraw her Affidavit of Support, if they have jointly petitioned on an I-751 to remove the alien's conditions, and the case has not been adjudicated, she can request withdrawal of that petition.

USCIS will act on a letter, if there is sufficient cause for them to believe some manipulation of the immigration system is involved. How could/would you say something of that order, without knowing?

I don't agree with your assessment as to the child proving bona fide intent. While a child to a marriage can be presented as evidence, it can confirm the bonafides when the weight of the evidence is in favour of a genuine marriage. In the event that evidence to support a request to remove condtions is scant or limited, a child to the marriage may not swing the pendulum in either direction.

Certainly, sooosad's correspondence regarding the events in her short marriage will be entered in the alien's file. I would think that as a matter of course, he would be called in for an interview on any waiver presented.

[sheraz 0]

Thank you to everyone who has supplied constructive and or supportive comments.

Diaddie, what I have been planning on doing follows your advice- simply to write a letter outlining the course of events that, when looked at as a whole, indicate (imho) that he did not enter into our marriage in good faith. I do realize that adultery would not be considered proof of this, and don’t plan on requesting any particular outcome. I am going to schedule an INFOPASS appointment to discuss with an Officer what will be the effect of submitting this "withdrawal of support" letter at this stage is the game, when we have more than a year until the Conditional period is up. If the written withdrawal of my support is simply symbolic at this point because it will not put him out of status, then that's OK.

The general opinion seems to be that his ability to lift conditions once the divorce is final is almost guaranteed. What I have read is that in order to do this he must submit proof of his "good faith" to support his waiver. In my wildest imagination I can't imagine what he could pull together, and if USCIS already has my written statement and some documentation to the contrary, isn't there a chance the lifting of conditions could be denied?

It’s not so much that I’m intent on him being deported out of bitterness. I just don’t want to be the one to make that decision- it’s an ENORMOUS burden and really not my right. That’s USCIS’ job. IMO if I don’t speak up and say “this is actually what happened”, than I’m not doing right by me and certainly not teaching my daughters what they should expect in the way of good treatment by a man, my sons what is an acceptable way to act or treat a women, or any of them any regard for the law. If he’s denied Permanent Residency and cannot be here with our daughter, it’s through his own doing, and he needs to answer to our daughter, not me. This is where my thinking has changed over the past few months- it’s not my job to protect him for her sake. As far as child support goes, I don’t ever expect to get awarded any anyway because his earning potential is so little.

OK, off my soap box

1. There is no withdrawl of support letter, you can not withdraw support.

2. The USCIS will not act on your letter. there is nothing for them to do.

3. His application to remve conditions is his problem, it would probably be unusual not to have a 'combative' spouse, all that matters is that he shows the marriage was valid when he applied for his GC, a child would make it very difficult for a finding that it was a marriage of convenience to obtain immigration benefit.

Boiler,

While I agree that sooosad cannot withdraw her Affidavit of Support, if they have jointly petitioned on an I-751 to remove the alien's conditions, and the case has not been adjudicated, she can request withdrawal of that petition.

USCIS will act on a letter, if there is sufficient cause for them to believe some manipulation of the immigration system is involved. How could/would you say something of that order, without knowing?

I don't agree with your assessment as to the child proving bona fide intent. While a child to a marriage can be presented as evidence, it can confirm the bonafides when the weight of the evidence is in favour of a genuine marriage. In the event that evidence to support a request to remove condtions is scant or limited, a child to the marriage may not swing the pendulum in either direction.

Certainly, sooosad's correspondence regarding the events in her short marriage will be entered in the alien's file. I would think that as a matter of course, he would be called in for an interview on any waiver presented.

May be you can shed some light on bona fide proof of marriage. What is the bona fide proof that marriage was done in good faith. If child birth doesnt prove it, pictures and emails dont prove a whole lot either.

[dmartmar 1]

OK folks- does this sound like fraud?

Fraud? Nah...

It would be very unlikely for you to be able to "have him put in removal proceedings" unless you are able to give proof to ICE that he has committed fraud and from what you have said it dont look as though it is a case of fraud.... as he is already a CPR if you divorce he can file to lift the conditions alone....

I would stop worrying about him and worry about yourself and the children.... he has the best of both worlds right now... he is not giving you any support money/physical and he is living rent free in your home...

seek advice from a divorce lawyer about making sure you and the children are protected and let him stand on his own 2 feet.... he has friends who can help him...

Good Luck

Kezzie

The LEAST PERSON I would take advice from.

Kezzie, who takes advantage of people with "problems."

[diadromous mermaid 36]

Thank you to everyone who has supplied constructive and or supportive comments.

Diaddie, what I have been planning on doing follows your advice- simply to write a letter outlining the course of events that, when looked at as a whole, indicate (imho) that he did not enter into our marriage in good faith. I do realize that adultery would not be considered proof of this, and don’t plan on requesting any particular outcome. I am going to schedule an INFOPASS appointment to discuss with an Officer what will be the effect of submitting this "withdrawal of support" letter at this stage is the game, when we have more than a year until the Conditional period is up. If the written withdrawal of my support is simply symbolic at this point because it will not put him out of status, then that's OK.

The general opinion seems to be that his ability to lift conditions once the divorce is final is almost guaranteed. What I have read is that in order to do this he must submit proof of his "good faith" to support his waiver. In my wildest imagination I can't imagine what he could pull together, and if USCIS already has my written statement and some documentation to the contrary, isn't there a chance the lifting of conditions could be denied?

It’s not so much that I’m intent on him being deported out of bitterness. I just don’t want to be the one to make that decision- it’s an ENORMOUS burden and really not my right. That’s USCIS’ job. IMO if I don’t speak up and say “this is actually what happened”, than I’m not doing right by me and certainly not teaching my daughters what they should expect in the way of good treatment by a man, my sons what is an acceptable way to act or treat a women, or any of them any regard for the law. If he’s denied Permanent Residency and cannot be here with our daughter, it’s through his own doing, and he needs to answer to our daughter, not me. This is where my thinking has changed over the past few months- it’s not my job to protect him for her sake. As far as child support goes, I don’t ever expect to get awarded any anyway because his earning potential is so little.

OK, off my soap box

1. There is no withdrawl of support letter, you can not withdraw support.

2. The USCIS will not act on your letter. there is nothing for them to do.

3. His application to remve conditions is his problem, it would probably be unusual not to have a 'combative' spouse, all that matters is that he shows the marriage was valid when he applied for his GC, a child would make it very difficult for a finding that it was a marriage of convenience to obtain immigration benefit.

Boiler,

While I agree that sooosad cannot withdraw her Affidavit of Support, if they have jointly petitioned on an I-751 to remove the alien's conditions, and the case has not been adjudicated, she can request withdrawal of that petition.

USCIS will act on a letter, if there is sufficient cause for them to believe some manipulation of the immigration system is involved. How could/would you say something of that order, without knowing?

I don't agree with your assessment as to the child proving bona fide intent. While a child to a marriage can be presented as evidence, it can confirm the bonafides when the weight of the evidence is in favour of a genuine marriage. In the event that evidence to support a request to remove condtions is scant or limited, a child to the marriage may not swing the pendulum in either direction.

Certainly, sooosad's correspondence regarding the events in her short marriage will be entered in the alien's file. I would think that as a matter of course, he would be called in for an interview on any waiver presented.

May be you can shed some light on bona fide proof of marriage. What is the bona fide proof that marriage was done in good faith. If child birth doesnt prove it, pictures and emails dont prove a whole lot either.

Without sufficient alternate evidence of a genuine interest in intertwining lives, child birth proves nothing more than that one individual acted in good faith and was under the impression, perhaps mistakenly so, that the alien had made a long term commitment to the union. It doesn't necessarily imply that the alien was, in fact, it could indicate an attempt to keep up the ruse. There are many incidences of people having children, outside of the immigration realm, where both parties were not actually doing so with the interest of creating a lasting union and future between the parties, unfortunately. Sometimes it is accidental, sometimes more sinister, and equally so, sometimes legitimate.

What can indicate bona fide intent is that upon marriage and even prior to, the parties mingle their lives, share their assets, co-mingle financial assets, place each other as beneficiary to any of each other's future inheritance, actively participate as partners in day-to-day activities, contribute jointly to the appreciation of the marital estate and attempt to reconcile issues as they crop up in the interest of preserving the marriage. I'll go so far as to say that bona fide intent is not necessarily proven if this is done unilaterally, as in the case of an unwitting USC spouse conveying privilege to an alien, who does not reciprocate likewise and in kind, if he or she has the ability.

[sheraz 0]

Thank you to everyone who has supplied constructive and or supportive comments.

Diaddie, what I have been planning on doing follows your advice- simply to write a letter outlining the course of events that, when looked at as a whole, indicate (imho) that he did not enter into our marriage in good faith. I do realize that adultery would not be considered proof of this, and don’t plan on requesting any particular outcome. I am going to schedule an INFOPASS appointment to discuss with an Officer what will be the effect of submitting this "withdrawal of support" letter at this stage is the game, when we have more than a year until the Conditional period is up. If the written withdrawal of my support is simply symbolic at this point because it will not put him out of status, then that's OK.

The general opinion seems to be that his ability to lift conditions once the divorce is final is almost guaranteed. What I have read is that in order to do this he must submit proof of his "good faith" to support his waiver. In my wildest imagination I can't imagine what he could pull together, and if USCIS already has my written statement and some documentation to the contrary, isn't there a chance the lifting of conditions could be denied?

It’s not so much that I’m intent on him being deported out of bitterness. I just don’t want to be the one to make that decision- it’s an ENORMOUS burden and really not my right. That’s USCIS’ job. IMO if I don’t speak up and say “this is actually what happened”, than I’m not doing right by me and certainly not teaching my daughters what they should expect in the way of good treatment by a man, my sons what is an acceptable way to act or treat a women, or any of them any regard for the law. If he’s denied Permanent Residency and cannot be here with our daughter, it’s through his own doing, and he needs to answer to our daughter, not me. This is where my thinking has changed over the past few months- it’s not my job to protect him for her sake. As far as child support goes, I don’t ever expect to get awarded any anyway because his earning potential is so little.

OK, off my soap box

1. There is no withdrawl of support letter, you can not withdraw support.

2. The USCIS will not act on your letter. there is nothing for them to do.

3. His application to remve conditions is his problem, it would probably be unusual not to have a 'combative' spouse, all that matters is that he shows the marriage was valid when he applied for his GC, a child would make it very difficult for a finding that it was a marriage of convenience to obtain immigration benefit.

Boiler,

While I agree that sooosad cannot withdraw her Affidavit of Support, if they have jointly petitioned on an I-751 to remove the alien's conditions, and the case has not been adjudicated, she can request withdrawal of that petition.

USCIS will act on a letter, if there is sufficient cause for them to believe some manipulation of the immigration system is involved. How could/would you say something of that order, without knowing?

I don't agree with your assessment as to the child proving bona fide intent. While a child to a marriage can be presented as evidence, it can confirm the bonafides when the weight of the evidence is in favour of a genuine marriage. In the event that evidence to support a request to remove condtions is scant or limited, a child to the marriage may not swing the pendulum in either direction.

Certainly, sooosad's correspondence regarding the events in her short marriage will be entered in the alien's file. I would think that as a matter of course, he would be called in for an interview on any waiver presented.

May be you can shed some light on bona fide proof of marriage. What is the bona fide proof that marriage was done in good faith. If child birth doesnt prove it, pictures and emails dont prove a whole lot either.

Without sufficient alternate evidence of a genuine interest in intertwining lives, child birth proves nothing more than that one individual acted in good faith and was under the impression, perhaps mistakenly so, that the alien had made a long term commitment to the union. It doesn't necessarily imply that the alien was, in fact, it could indicate an attempt to keep up the ruse. There are many incidences of people having children, outside of the immigration realm, where both parties were not actually doing so with the interest of creating a lasting union and future between the parties, unfortunately. Sometimes it is accidental, sometimes more sinister, and equally so, sometimes legitimate.

What can indicate bona fide intent is that upon marriage and even prior to, the parties mingle their lives, share their assets, co-mingle financial assets, place each other as beneficiary to any of each other's future inheritance, actively participate as partners in day-to-day activities, contribute jointly to the appreciation of the marital estate and attempt to reconcile issues as they crop up in the interest of preserving the marriage. I'll go so far as to say that bona fide intent is not necessarily proven if this is done unilaterally, as in the case of an unwitting USC spouse conveying privilege to an alien, who does not reciprocate likewise and in kind, if he or she has the ability.

All assets can be combined. That could be falsified. Insurances can be falsified. Health insurance coverage could be falsified. Mortgages could be falsified. All financial dealings could be falsified with the intent of seperating them after the immigration process is complete. What do you consider day to day activities. Going for coffee and watching a movie ?. Is sleeping together not considered mingling ? If they sleep together with the intent of gaining benefit then it is prostitution really .

Dont conclude child birth as a one nite stand. It is the culmination of a consumation of marriage. If either partner believes that he is going to get something material (immigration for example) out of sleeping with the other partner, then it is simply prostitution. Fortunately most marriages are real. They plan lives together and start a family. Sometimes things dont work out and people seperate. That does not mean that the family was started with the wrong intent.