Congratulations Mr President

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

I do not need an "out" from Rebecca Jo. Things change, situations change, especially when you have a family and prioritize other things. My situation now is not the same as 3 years ago. Is yours? How could it be? But I truly appreciate her efforts in digging through archives and her interest. I had a heart attack, bypass surgery and discovered, SURPRISE!, I was diabetic. Those things change lives, change families. Perhaps you think it does not? Check out the cost of a month's supply of Lantus and Novolog. Add in the premiums for a high deductible insurance plan for a person with a history of heart disease and diabetes. If it were not so serious, it would be funny! I pay more for medical costs/insurance than for my home and utilities and that is a fact! This means I should have a winter home in Arizona instead. No more. I get it. I can get someone else to pay that and that is what Ameirca wants. That is what America voted for. I am going with it. And get this! My medical really would not kick in unless I had a major hospital stay or other really big expense...and then it pays 80%. The hospital will give me a 50% discount for paying cash! So I pay all this for, basically, 30% of a catastrophic medical expense.

It wasn't me that did the digging through your past posts. It was Trompe. So - just saying please give credit where credit is due.

And - you are preaching to the choir about health problems. Wes came here with more stuff wrong with him than ails you. And it's just gotten worse since then. We were out early this morning in fact for a reduced cost blood screen. I sympathize with anyone who has a chronic condition.

On the other hand, since he did come all the way over here to the US to get some of that American Pie everybody goes on about, he's elected to keep working and buy some health insurance. He was just promoted yesterday, in fact.

I don't know if that will buy a kidney when the time comes, but hey - give me your tired, your poor, your heavy laden - and all the jazz.

[Peikko 1,575]

What I am posting now conflicts with what I posted before because I have changed my opinion on the matter. You may call me a "flip flopper" if you want. I do not care. Just keep working and contributing to the system. I'll be OK.I have always supported a single payor system of healthcare if we were going to have government healthcare. Thank you Vermont has chosen to opt out of Obamacare by providing a state single payor system. Currently that system applies only to people without insurance. VOILA! I will soon be without insurance and eligible for VHAP (Vermont Health Access Program) VHAP utilizes its subsidy from the FEds for medicare/medicaid as part of its funding. In 2014 this program will cover ALL Vermonters. Many employers have already cancelled their insurance and are choosing to pay the premium to Vermont instead, in other words, voluntarily joining the program before it is mandatory. Much cheaper. While Obamacare has raised insurance rates, single payor in Vermont has lowered them. Our Senator Sanders (I-VT)proposed it instead of Obamacare and was laughed out of the Senate by Democrats. So we have it here for us.

I do not need an "out" from Rebecca Jo. Things change, situations change, especially when you have a family and prioritize other things. My situation now is not the same as 3 years ago. Is yours? How could it be? But I truly appreciate her efforts in digging through archives and her interest. I had a heart attack, bypass surgery and discovered, SURPRISE!, I was diabetic. Those things change lives, change families. Perhaps you think it does not? Check out the cost of a month's supply of Lantus and Novolog. Add in the premiums for a high deductible insurance plan for a person with a history of heart disease and diabetes. If it were not so serious, it would be funny! I pay more for medical costs/insurance than for my home and utilities and that is a fact! This means I should have a winter home in Arizona instead. No more. I get it. I can get someone else to pay that and that is what Ameirca wants. That is what America voted for. I am going with it. And get this! My medical really would not kick in unless I had a major hospital stay or other really big expense...and then it pays 80%. The hospital will give me a 50% discount for paying cash! So I pay all this for, basically, 30% of a catastrophic medical expense.

Time to change things again. "Change" is what Barack promised us, it is what all his supporters voted for. It is what I am doing. I would imagine the supporters of such programs would welcome another beneficiary. They have increased tremendously since Obama became President. I am just the most recent person to change. We chose 4 more years of this and there will be many more to join me.

This is not a joke, I am not kidding. I am going to do this and I will begin right after New Year's when my employer makes it's winter layoffs, this year I will be laid off. It is already determined. It means I will allow another person to work...fall on my sword, so to speak.

After Alla finishes nursing school (spring 2014, possibly fall 2013)we will reevaluate everything and probably change things again. We have even discussed moving to a warmer climate, we will see.

Thank you.

I am confused, are you agreeing that health care that is based on private insurance isn't working out too well? How any one expects market forces to operate in a fashion that would benefit the humans that require the heathcare is beyond me - it doesn't make any sense to start with an assumption that money can be made out of a business that does not create anything at all but requires the availability of limitless resources if the aim is to provide health care for all those who subscribe rather than simply to those who have a profitable condition. It's madness, complete madness and yet people argue every day that the health of a nation is a potentially profitable business. Laughable, completely nuts.

[rade2rising 205]

you give ppl free stuff and still they complain.

lesson: some ppl you just cant plz no matter what you do

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

What? Did he win?

Right on Big Dog! FREE stuff is the way to go. I get it! I am going to get all of it I can.

It's painfully obvious that you do not get it at all.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

Ours in Vermont is better. This is one case where a small state population helps. Our whole state has less population (by a LOT) than Boston, or even Springfield. Pretty easy to manage. We also have a excellent health care provider, Fletcher Allen Healthcare (google it!) who receives huge subsidies from the Canadian health system to handle Canadian patients, not to mention the cash paying Canadians avoiding long lines for MRIs and such. It is one of the leading heart treatment centers in the country. Who knew? You do not even imagine a facility like that would exist in a city of 42,000 people do you? Without the subsidies and the out of area patients, I would have had to go to Boston for my surgery. Vive La Quebec! La Belle Province! Alla was doing a pretty brisk business as an interpreter for them before going back to school. It is not because we have a huge Russian speaking population here, most of her clients were from out of the area being treated here.

We may consider a move after Alla finishes nursing school. Boston is not out of the question. We visit there often and like it. One of her good friends lives there. We will see.

There are lots of nice suburban areas here. Not as quiet as Vermont, but not bad at all.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I am confused, are you agreeing that health care that is based on private insurance isn't working out too well? How any one expects market forces to operate in a fashion that would benefit the humans that require the heathcare is beyond me - it doesn't make any sense to start with an assumption that money can be made out of a business that does not create anything at all but requires the availability of limitless resources if the aim is to provide health care for all those who subscribe rather than simply to those who have a profitable condition. It's madness, complete madness and yet people argue every day that the health of a nation is a potentially profitable business. Laughable, completely nuts.

Yes, I agree. Free government health care is the way to go. It is the way I am going to go.

There are lots of nice suburban areas here. Not as quiet as Vermont, but not bad at all.

Maybe, we will see. We will evaluate everything in 2 years or so.

What? Did he win?

It's painfully obvious that you do not get it at all.

Whatever. Please keep paying for my free stuff. That's all I need from you. You seem very angry. I am not feeling the love, Big Dog.

you give ppl free stuff and still they complain.

lesson: some ppl you just cant plz no matter what you do

WHO is complaining? I have not read a single complain in this thread. I am definitely NOT complaining, I am very pleased.

Edited November 10, 2012 by Gary and Alla

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

It wasn't me that did the digging through your past posts. It was Trompe. So - just saying please give credit where credit is due.

And - you are preaching to the choir about health problems. Wes came here with more stuff wrong with him than ails you. And it's just gotten worse since then. We were out early this morning in fact for a reduced cost blood screen. I sympathize with anyone who has a chronic condition.

On the other hand, since he did come all the way over here to the US to get some of that American Pie everybody goes on about, he's elected to keep working and buy some health insurance. He was just promoted yesterday, in fact.

I don't know if that will buy a kidney when the time comes, but hey - give me your tired, your poor, your heavy laden - and all the jazz.

Good luck top him Rebecca. I certainly do not wish health problems on anyone.

[Peikko 1,575]

Yes, I agree. Free government health care is the way to go. It is the way I am going to go.

Maybe, we will see. We will evaluate everything in 2 years or so.

Whatever. Please keep paying for my free stuff. That's all I need from you. You seem very angry. I am not feeling the love, Big Dog.

WHO is complaining? I have not read a single complain in this thread. I am definitely NOT complaining, I am very pleased.

Health care that is provided through a government agency is not and has never been free. It is free at the point of use only - most people within a society that chooses to provide health care based on need rather than the ability to pay a subscription do pay for their own health care. Eliminating the requirement that this service; a service moreover that produces absolutely nothing in absolute economic terms and requires extensive resources in order to provide that service without prejudice, makes a profit seems eminently sensible. Quite clearly there are better ways to minimise waste and maximise performance in health care than to require the service show a profit for shareholders when clearly those share holders have absolutely no vested interest in the quality or effectiveness of that care. At least when a government holds the purse strings the end users ultimately control the ability of that service to provide the care. ie, the care is tailored to being effective and inclusive and not simply profitable.

I am quite sure most people, were they to look at it in such stark terms, would realise that health care as a business model is totally nonsensical if the aim is to provide actual health care for humans with all their diversity and idiosyncrasy. It's so blatantly obvious it beggars belief that anyone could imagine otherwise.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Whatever. Please keep paying for my free stuff. That's all I need from you. You seem very angry. I am not feeling the love, Big Dog.

I am not angry. Why would I be? The backwards crowd got a whooping last week. That makes me happy, not angry. And yes, I will happily support the weak and unable. If that includes you, no problem.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Health care that is provided through a government agency is not and has never been free. It is free at the point of use only - most people within a society that chooses to provide health care based on need rather than the ability to pay a subscription do pay for their own health care. Eliminating the requirement that this service; a service moreover that produces absolutely nothing in absolute economic terms and requires extensive resources in order to provide that service without prejudice, makes a profit seems eminently sensible. Quite clearly there are better ways to minimise waste and maximise performance in health care than to require the service show a profit for shareholders when clearly those share holders have absolutely no vested interest in the quality or effectiveness of that care. At least when a government holds the purse strings the end users ultimately control the ability of that service to provide the care. ie, the care is tailored to being effective and inclusive and not simply profitable.

I am quite sure most people, were they to look at it in such stark terms, would realise that health care as a business model is totally nonsensical if the aim is to provide actual health care for humans with all their diversity and idiosyncrasy. It's so blatantly obvious it beggars belief that anyone could imagine otherwise.

You're right. I am going to be paying $147 per month for a family of 3 vs. $1200+ so it is not "FREE". Waste is not my concern, Obama will handle that.

I made my Opthamologist appt for mid January.

[Peikko 1,575]

You're right. I am going to be paying $147 per month for a family of 3 vs. $1200+ so it is not "FREE". Waste is not my concern, Obama will handle that.

I made my Opthamologist appt for mid January.

Why the facetious comment about waste? Clearly, you will benefit enormously from the new health care policy, for whatever reason, but would you care to put forward your reasons why health care should operate more efficiently as a business than as a benefit that living in a large society should bring to everyone, regardless of income merely because the latter is operated under the governmental umbrella? I can't for the life of my come up with a working model that would provide a basis for profit AND adequate provision of care regardless of the condition to be treated or when that condition first appeared and goes on for. Chronic conditions can be profitable, if you are say diabetic (and there's a nice little conspiracy theory you could come up with that would involve current eating habits and profitable medical conditions were you a conspiracy nutter) but there are too may chronic conditions that any insurance company has on its very black list of resource drainers (and therefore limits to profit) that lead to for example, pre existing condition clauses. How is the justifiable in anyone's book if the primary reason for health care is to provide just that, care to those who have impaired health?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Why the facetious comment about waste? Clearly, you will benefit enormously from the new health care policy, for whatever reason, but would you care to put forward your reasons why health care should operate more efficiently as a business than as a benefit that living in a large society should bring to everyone, regardless of income merely because the latter is operated under the governmental umbrella? I can't for the life of my come up with a working model that would provide a basis for profit AND adequate provision of care regardless of the condition to be treated or when that condition first appeared and goes on for. Chronic conditions can be profitable, if you are say diabetic (and there's a nice little conspiracy theory you could come up with that would involve current eating habits and profitable medical conditions were you a conspiracy nutter) but there are too may chronic conditions that any insurance company has on its very black list of resource drainers (and therefore limits to profit) that lead to for example, pre existing condition clauses. How is the justifiable in anyone's book if the primary reason for health care is to provide just that, care to those who have impaired health?

Gary is a weak person who decided to change his life because Obama won re-election. He would have been able to remain productive had Mitt Romney won but since Obama won, he is incapable of contributing to his upkeep any longer. Gary was forced to become a leech by America electing Obama for a second term. That's his story. Obama's re-election has knocked him the ** out. Now you can either believe that or detect it for the complete and utter bullshite that it is.

[Peikko 1,575]

I would rather try to get to the root of the problem, why there are people that believe that health care is ever going to service the human beings that the propaganda put forward by private insurance companies leads us to believe it will than the reality, that it can't and it wont. I am not that interested in Gary's personal bizarre behaviour.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I am not angry. Why would I be? The backwards crowd got a whooping last week. That makes me happy, not angry. And yes, I will happily support the weak and unable. If that includes you, no problem.

Thank you!

There are a lot of things as a dibetic and person with a history of heart disease that I need to be doing. I have not because after paying my insurance costs and absolute "must have" medications (more than $400 per month) and college expenses and all of life's other things there simply is not enough money left. Obamacare has increased my insurance rates 30% Obamacare sucks.

Thankfully my state opted out of that atrocity. But as long as I stay on this private healthcare plan, I am actually subsidizing other people's expenses PLUS paying income tax. I really do not need to do any of that. I will get on VHAP and you will pay a portion of that and I will go for every sort of medical care I really need. semi annual check ups, blood work, annual opthamologist appt, annual cardiologist appt and tests, annual Endocronologist appt and tests...you see where this is going? With a $5000 deductible, those things just weren't going to happen, I mean another $5000 every year on top of $14,000 already? We are talking $19,000+ annual expenses vs. $1764.00. PLUS food stamps, PLUS home heating assistance, PLUS free breakfast and lunch for Pasha (that kid can EAT!) PLUS ...more to be determined. Alla and Pasha, now US citizens, qualify for this also!

Thankfully, the programs you have supported will save me more than $25,000 per year PLUS tax savings. Because the government has never really wanted to reduce the number of poor people they have consistently raised the threshold of income to qualify for these benefits. I find myself in the position that, with a family of 3, I can reduce my income $25,000 per year, qualify for the benefits and make the equivilent money back in benefits...stuff I was paying for anyway. Mathmatically a "no brainer". This will change when Alla finishes school in two years and goes back to work...but until then, why not? By then our state will have single payor for all people anyway (starting in 2014)

I mean, Big Dog, what's the point of working hard, working more hours, more stress, more headache and then just have the money taken from me by taxes and medical insurance costs? Makes no sense.

What is your state doing about medical insurance?

So yeah, Thanks, Big Dog. I am feeling the love a little more from you now. I will be another person that needs those programs, another person that will support the reason to continue those benefits.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

Are you not getting enough attention at home?