National Debt $16,217,000,000,000+

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I think eventually, we should do away with the EITC, which I believe in many ways acts like a pacifier from the injustice of unlivable wages. It also stigmatizes those working Americans who are made to feel like they looking for a handout rather than a hand-up. But that's really a different topic.

For my Right Wing friends who wonder how we can reduce the debt:

• If you believe Reaganomics' argument that a larger tax base means more revenue, then it's a just a question of how you spur job growth. Every business owner knows you have to spend some to get some in return. That was the point of the stimulus spending and the data shows it worked. But we need to stop vilifying public employees and recognize that not only do teachers, firemen and police provide a valuable service to society, they help build and maintain the economy and are worth every penny we spend on them.
• We have to have a vision of a new economy - what to build our economy on, and the most logical choice would be investing in new energy with an aim at energy independence. The energy economy is happening right now, but not fast enough to create the kind of job growth we need. We should be setting goals towards energy independence.
• End the Bush Tax Cuts for the wealthy
• Close the loopholes on corporations that use offshore tax havens.
• Eliminate the ceiling on taxable income for paying into Social Security and Medicare which would make them solvent for eternity.
• Bring our troops home from Afghanistan.
• Invest in infrastructure.
• Encourage manufacturing on U.S. soil through tax incentives.

[mawilson 2,133]

For my Right Wing friends who wonder how we can reduce the debt:

• If you believe Reaganomics' argument that a larger tax base means more revenue, then it's a just a question of how you spur job growth. Every business owner knows you have to spend some to get some in return. That was the point of the stimulus spending and the data shows it worked. But we need to stop vilifying public employees and recognize that not only do teachers, firemen and police provide a valuable service to society, they help build and maintain the economy and are worth every penny we spend on them.
• We have to have a vision of a new economy - what to build our economy on, and the most logical choice would be investing in new energy with an aim at energy independence. The energy economy is happening right now, but not fast enough to create the kind of job growth we need. We should be setting goals towards energy independence.
• End the Bush Tax Cuts for the wealthy
• Close the loopholes on corporations that use offshore tax havens.
• Eliminate the ceiling on taxable income for paying into Social Security and Medicare which would make them solvent for eternity.
• Bring our troops home from Afghanistan.
• Invest in infrastructure.
• Encourage manufacturing on U.S. soil through tax incentives.

I agree with most items, except:

• End the Bush Tax Cuts for the wealthy. (They should end for everyone. The "wealthy" portion of the Bush tax cuts is very small and doesn't do anything to address the deficit problem.)
  
• Eliminate the ceiling on taxable income for paying into Social Security and Medicare which would make them solvent for eternity. (That's equivalent to a 15.3% tax increase on anyone who makes more than $110k, which puts us in France territory with the top margin rate approaching 70% - nuts!)
  

[JohnR! 5,495]

Which is?

The statement you made.

[mawilson 2,133]

The statement you made.

Please be more specific.

[JohnR! 5,495]

Please be more specific.

In regards to what?

[mawilson 2,133]

In regards to what?

Which statement was incorrect?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

But other taxes are irrelevant in the context of this discussion. US Congress and President can only affect federal tax policies - they have no say in how the states run their taxation departments.

Federal income taxes are not the only federal taxes that people pay, but the number of people who pay NO (ZERO) federal taxes is still very high - 26.7 percent of all tax units.

This is the result of the tremendous income re-distribution that has taken place over the last few decades where ever more people share an ever smaller piece of the economic pie. These people pay no federal taxes because they do not make enough money to pay any federal taxes. Try as you may but you can't reach into the pocket of a naked man.

[mawilson 2,133]

This is the result of the tremendous income re-distribution that has taken place over the last few decades where ever more people share an ever smaller piece of the economic pie. These people pay no federal taxes because they do not make enough money to pay any federal taxes. Try as you may but you can't reach into the pocket of a naked man.

They make $0?

Because if they make more than $0, according to this table, they should be paying at least 10%.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

They make $0?

Because if they make more than $0, according to this table, they should be paying at least 10%.

Tax brackets apply to AGI. You know that.

[mawilson 2,133]

Tax brackets apply to AGI. You know that.

And that's the problem. That's your "income redistribution" right there.

[mawilson 2,133]

In regards to what?

Which statement was incorrect?

So do you want to tell me which statement was incorrect, or is it another one of your hit-and-run hope-nobody-asks-about-it comments?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

And that's the problem. That's your "income redistribution" right there.

Not really. It makes perfect sense to exempt an existential minimum from income taxation. The problem is that the drive to shrink government - i.e. reduce government spending - has resulted in spending through the tax code where it isn't visible. That is how all of a sudden you can shrink your taxable income in so many ways that it's not even funny. Hell, we're financing churches through the tax code.

I don't think we disagree all that much on this issue. I would be perfectly comfortable with a tax model that taxes every dollar of income after a certain exitential minimum at a flat rate of x %. No deductions, no loopholes, nothing.

[mawilson 2,133]

I don't think we disagree all that much on this issue. I would be perfectly comfortable with a tax model that taxes every dollar of income after a certain exitential minimum at a flat rate of x %. No deductions, no loopholes, nothing.

Yep. I'm fine with a tiered (progressive) system as well, as long as every dollar of income above the existential minimum is taxed, so only the very poor (those below the poverty threshold) are exempt.

I don't think we disagree all that much on this issue. I would be perfectly comfortable with a tax model that taxes every dollar of income after a certain exitential minimum at a flat rate of x %. No deductions, no loopholes, nothing.

By the way, that's Romney's tax reform plan in a nutshell.

[Karee 4,191]

So do you want to tell me which statement was incorrect, or is it another one of your hit-and-run hope-nobody-asks-about-it comments?

That's called running up your post count and answering questions with questions. I would suggest this thread would be a more suitable place for such things:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/forum/155-games-while-you-wait/

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Yep. I'm fine with a tiered (progressive) system as well, as long as every dollar of income above the existential minimum is taxed, so only the very poor (those below the poverty threshold) are exempt.

By the way, that's Romney's tax reform plan in a nutshell.

How do you know? He kept that secret. Did you have the inside track?