'I do?' Opposition dogs French gay marriage plans

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

http://news.yahoo.com/opposition-dogs-french-gay-marriage-plans-082312491.html

By THOMAS ADAMSON | Associated Press – 12 hrs ago

PARIS (AP) — A plan to legalize same-sex marriage and allow gay couples to adopt was a liberal cornerstone of Francois Hollande's election manifesto earlier this year. It looked like a shoo-in for the French President, supported by a majority of the country, and an easy way to break with his conservative predecessor. But that was then.

Now, as the Socialist government prepares to unveil its draft "marriage for everyone" law Wednesday, polls show wavering support for the idea and for the president himself amid increasingly vocal opposition in this majority Catholic country.

And it's not just religious and rural leaders speaking out; top figures within Hollande's own party also are at loggerheads over the plan. The Socialists are now dragging their feet, releasing the bill later than planned and delaying parliamentary debate on it until January.

The political hot potato has exposed divisions between urban France, where homosexuality is widely accepted, and the rural heartland, where conservative attitudes hold sway.

Unusually for this strictly secular country, it has also brought religious views to the foreground. Most French people identify as Catholic even if only a minority attend church. Archbishop Andre Vingt-Trois made it a point to defend heterosexual parents Sunday in a homily at the pilgrimage site in Lourdes in southern France. The pope weighed in last month, urging French bishops to oppose the bill, and France's chief rabbi Gilles Bernheim joined other religious leaders in his opposition.

Right-wing opposition to full-fledged gay marriage in France has generally centered on the impact on the traditional family. But some have been more strident.

One prominent Paris official warned that recognizing gay marriage could lead to legalizing polygamy, pedophilia and incest. Francois Lebel's comments drew particular attention, and condemnation, because he oversees the neighborhood that includes the presidential palace and he officiated at former President Nicolas Sarkozy's marriage to ex-supermodel Carla Bruni.

Attracting equal controversy, Christian Democrat Party leader Christine Boutin — who brandished a bible in France's National Assembly in 1998 to protest gay civil unions — has said the law could open the floodgates to moral decline.

"(Back in 1998) I said that civil unions would lead to gay marriage. Everyone said: 'Never. Not at all!' (But) it's just the natural direction.

/ The logic of the situation is, that if we've got marriage (for all), we'll move towards polygamy. Why is it so shocking to predict this?"

France has allowed civil unions since 1999, and while they were initially seen as for gay or lesbian couples, they have proved hugely popular among heterosexuals, too. France would become the 12th country in the world — and the biggest so far in terms of economic and diplomatic influence, — to legalize same-sex marriage if the bill passes.

Meanwhile, two prominent conservatives with presidential ambitions are railing against gay marriage as they compete for the leadership of the main opposition party, the UMP. Jean-Francois Cope is calling for mass protests against the Socialists' plans, and Francois Fillon suggested he would seek to reverse the law if he's elected leader.

All the noise appears to be eroding support for same-sex rights and suggests the bill will be diluted or modified before it reaches a vote. Polls generally still show a majority favor gay marriage, though to a declining degree. And a recent poll by Ifop showed less than half now favor gay adoption, down from more than half in previous polls.

Gay couples recognize that it's an issue that is bound to provoke controversy on the country's right, but they remain optimistic that a law will come to pass — pointing out that most French have a much more liberal attitude than many anti-gay voices quoted in the press.

Ludovic-Mohamed Zahed, who married his live-in partner Qiyaammudeen Jantjies in South Africa, where gay marriage is recognized, is already seeking instruction from his local town council to get his marriage recognized in France as soon as he can.

"The population's already accepted that there are **-parental families, that there are homosexual couples, and that in fact (France is) very late," Zahed said. "I think that a large majority of the population has acknowledged that we are lagging in France on these issues."

"It's encouraging that the majority of the country backs gay marriage," said the gay rights group Act Up. "We've won this — as a result of decades of fighting. But it also makes the trepidation and hesitation of the government even harder to believe, and this critical stage. Why do they lack the moral courage here?"

The proposed law is of great symbolic importance for Hollande, whose personal popularity is in decline and who says legalizing gay marriage and adoption is one of the things he wants to accomplish in his first year in office. But it is escalating into one of the most divisive issues in recent time, with splits even within his party's ranks.

Prime Minister Jean-Marc Ayrault has favored a minimalist law that would exclude access to medically assisted procreation such as in vitro fertilization. The parliamentary leader, Socialist Bruno Le Roux, has criticized the premier's cautious stance and will present an amendment allowing gay couples the right to such procedures.

Many have taken their protests to the streets.

"We're against (this law) in the name of the rights of the children because we want to protect the children against missing out unfairly on a daddy or a mommy," said Tugdual Derville, general director of Alliance Vita, an association of conservative groups, who staged demonstrations last week in cities around France.

Everyone, it seems, has an opinion. Even the politically neutral state child benefits agency has weighed in, criticizing the plan to scrap entries for "father" and "mother" in official records, replaced by "parent 1" and "parent 2".

The most vocal opposition is coming from rural France, where leaders from right and left are campaigning for a "conscience clause," which would allow mayors the right to refuse to perform same-sex marriages. Some 1,200 French mayors and their deputies have signed a petition protesting the law. But though they are protesting loudly, this figure represents just a small minority of the 150,000 mayors and deputies in France. Indeed, elsewhere, some mayors are in favor, and vociferously so. One mayor in Hantay, northern France, is even going so far as to plan a gay marriage on Nov. 10 — months before a bill could ever come into law.

After the draft law is presented to Wednesday's Cabinet meeting, it goes to the National Assembly for debate in January. Socialists hope that the absolute majority they won in June's parliamentary elections will be enough to push it through.

Edited November 6, 2012 by Bad_Daddy

[Danno 1,228]

It's amazing how much turmoil 2% of the population can cause to a whole country .... so they feel fulfilled or accepted in their lifestyle.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

Yeah, damn those annoying people wanting to feel accepted and fulfilled. How horrible of them to be such a burden on their countries.

[Dakine10 5,452]

It's amazing how much turmoil 2% of the population can cause to a whole country .... so they feel fulfilled or accepted in their lifestyle.

What's amazing is that anyone in the other 98% even cares. Homosexual marriage doesn't concern me, doesn't bother me, doesn't scare me, and doesn't interfere with me in any way. What scares me is people who insist on interfering with other peoples lives and liberty when it really shouldn't be any of their business.

[Danno 1,228]

What's amazing is that anyone in the other 98% even cares. Homosexual marriage doesn't concern me, doesn't bother me, doesn't scare me, and doesn't interfere with me in any way. What scares me is people who insist on interfering with other peoples lives and liberty when it really shouldn't be any of their business.

Wake up dude, we "interfere" with people lives and business all the time, in fact, it is rare when we don't.

Your position should be "we should not in this case".

Why would people care if the family from "sister wives" got married?

Why would we care if a Baker in nowheresville declined to make a gay wedding cake? We do care and so much that we take him to court and charge him lots of money for adhearing to his faith, inside his own business.

Why should you care that the public school with public moneys hires Gay groups to come in (at the earliest ages) to teach moral principles that are contrary to many of the parents..... yet when Gay marriage comes to a state, that is exactly what we know happens and the parents have no choice.

Why should you care if the Chief diversity officer is investigated by her university for simply signing a petition to allow the marriage question to be voted on in that state.

Yeah, I guess if you agree in "any thing goes" in defining marriage

and the attacks on those who don't are fine by you then..... you shouldn't care, but others do.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

Poor Danno. So much anger.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

It's not the marriage thing that bothers me so much as it is them adopting children. That's going way past the line imo. They keep shoving their backwards ideals on everyone and it's anything but normal human behavior.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

I wonder how long it'll be before someone feels the need to post a picture of homosexual men. Mostly naked.

[Danno 1,228]

aire ya go.

[JensJrny2Ray 367]

I always wonder what search terms are typed into Google. I think it's cute these guys that are so anti-"the gays" are always looking up photos of gay men.

What bothers me in the OP's article is that the opposition links homosexuality to pedophilia and incest.

Again, I find it interesting how someone could think it's so terrible for a two parent gay family to adopt a child. The same groups oppose sex education and access to contraceptives, yet whine about how so many people are on welfare. It boggles the mind.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

I always wonder what search terms are typed into Google. I think it's cute these guys that are so anti-"the gays" are always looking up photos of gay men.

What bothers me in the OP's article is that the opposition links homosexuality to pedophilia and incest.

Again, I find it interesting how someone could think it's so terrible for a two parent gay family to adopt a child. The same groups oppose sex education and access to contraceptives, yet whine about how so many people are on welfare. It boggles the mind.

Unfortunately, if people disagree with something, they can't help but compare it to other extremes. It makes no sense to anyone but them.

[Danno 1,228]

I always wonder what search terms are typed into Google. I think it's cute these guys that are so anti-"the gays" are always looking up photos of gay men.

What bothers me in the OP's article is that the opposition links homosexuality to pedophilia and incest.

Again, I find it interesting how someone could think it's so terrible for a two parent gay family to adopt a child. The same groups oppose sex education and access to contraceptives, yet whine about how so many people are on welfare. It boggles the mind.

Lets take this apart shall we?

-It takes 2 seconds to find a page full of images on Google in the last case I searched -Gay huncho guy.

-YOu are assuming that all people who recognize the transforming effect of gay marriage, are all in agreement on other things.

-We have more sex-ed now than say fifty years, where is the eradication of unwanted pregnancies or STD's it never turned out to be the answer that so many thought. How much are you willing to spend to get zero results?

[JensJrny2Ray 367]

Lets take this apart shall we?

-It takes 2 seconds to find a page full of images on Google in the last case I searched -Gay huncho guy.

-YOu are assuming that all people who recognize the transforming effect of gay marriage, are all in agreement on other things.

-We have more sex-ed now than say fifty years, where is the eradication of unwanted pregnancies or STD's it never turned out to be the answer that so many thought. How much are you willing to spend to get zero results?

Let's take this apart shall we?

- I just said it was cute that those who are anti-gay type in these search terms in Google. I'm not anti-gay yet I don't go searching for images of gay men.

- I can make statements like that, regarding gay marriage, because the article being posted linked those issues. (pedophilia and incest)

- I don't believe that sex-ed eradicates unwanted pregnancy or STD's. However, I do believe they are reduced. Zero results? I think that's a false figure.

[Danno 1,228]

Let's take this apart shall we?

- I just said it was cute that those who are anti-gay type in these search terms in Google. I'm not anti-gay yet I don't go searching for images of gay men.

- I can make statements like that, regarding gay marriage, because the article being posted linked those issues. (pedophilia and incest)

- I don't believe that sex-ed eradicates unwanted pregnancy or STD's. However, I do believe they are reduced. Zero results? I think that's a false figure.

-History shows the trajectory of civilizations who go down this road. Name for me one country in history in which Homosexuality was accepted or on-par or normal ....that you feel comfy with.

-YOu think STD's "might be reduced" thought we are at epidemic levels in some areas? Even if you really believe that you have to ask yourself... "How much money are we going to waste on a "might".

Edited November 6, 2012 by Danno

[Penny Lane 8,159]

Canada accepts and embraces homosexuals and treats them equally. Are they spiraling into chaos and I'm not aware of it?