I got a call from consulate

[Tough_Era 71]

So a legit question Zagray. Regardless of why anyone here thinks you were denied... out of the reasons it could be... Why do you think you have been denied?

Because they sent back my case to USCIS and most of VJ members here say it's denial letter when it's refusal letter. i mean the ones who know better than me that have gone through these could't compare from refusal and denial letter, or do i have to ignore what they say?

I think someone told me the right answer that said they will deny it or they will reaffirm it.

So what do you think palm3gurl??

[Shoot Em Straight 385]

This process, with not only the paperwork but the physiological angles is too complicated to understand for the beneficiary alone. I see this and think they only have a chance if the petitioner would educate herself first hand of CASA. How can it be explained about the "soft denial" phantom noir/noid...... when it is hard for a USC (that went through it personally) to understand what is actually done after the K1 goes back? It is different from what is supposedly to be done. and what is occurring. Just my observation if it helps. As posted before, Z have your fiance stay on USCIS, dont wait for a notice.

[Tough_Era 71]

This process, with not only the paperwork but the physiological angles is too complicated to understand for the beneficiary alone. I see this and think they only have a chance if the petitioner would educate herself first hand of CASA. How can it be explained about the "soft denial" phantom noir/noid...... when it is hard for a USC (that went through it personally) to understand what is actually done after the K1 goes back? It is different from what is supposedly to be done. and what is occurring. Just my observation if it helps. As posted before, Z have your fiance stay on USCIS, dont wait for a notice.

So you mean i don't have to believe what the CO told me on phone when he said they will let fiancee knows and they will tell her the reason why they sent my case back to USCIS.

and if i don't have to wait for a notice. what else fiancee and i can do in your opinion?

Tell me wha is too complicated to understand for the beneficiary alone?

Edited November 6, 2012 by zagray

[destiny64 222]

I will restate again there will be no review once your case arrives back to USCIS for a k-1 visa, it is essentially a closed case. Your fiance can try to find the reason with a FOIA request and ask for consular notes. You need to start over with another petition , good luck.

[Tough_Era 71]

I will restate again there will be no review once your case arrives back to USCIS for a k-1 visa, it is essentially a closed case. Your fiance can try to find the reason with a FOIA request and ask for consular notes. You need to start over with another petition , good luck.

Ok i got it

SO what do you mean by FOIA??

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Zagray -

Although the consulates use the "refusal" terminology, it's essentially the same thing as a "denial" - the consulate is "refusing" to issue you a visa, and sending your case back to USCIS, where it will be intentionally ignored and allowed to expire.

Linds&Youssef really said it very well in your other thread:

There are only a handful of reasons you can be denied a fiance visa:

*you have a communicable disease

*you run the risk of becoming a burden on the US government

*you've been found guilty of a heinous crime (murder, rape, human trafficking, arms trafficking, drug trafficking, racketeering, etc.)

*you are associated with a known terrorist organization or you appear to intend harm to the citizens or government of the US

*your relationship is not (or appears not to be) legitimate

Since the document you received doesn't have check marks next to the ones about communicable disease or becoming a burden on the US government, I'd have to assume that they either found something in your background that makes them think you wouldn't be a law-abiding resident or that your relationship is fake. Only you know your history. I can't answer for you what the problem is because it's something only you know. If you don't have a criminal record of any kind and you don't appear to have potential for terrorist acts, then I'd say the problem lies in the appearance (or lack thereof) of a legitimate fiance(e) relationship. If that's the case, then you will need to find more convincing evidence of your relationship's sincerity before applying again. Otherwise, the others are right: you'll just be denied all over again.

So the consulate either found something in your background that makes you ineligible, or they don't believe your relationship is genuine. If you have no crimes of moral turpitude on your record, you have no connections to a terror organization, and you did not misrepresent any information on your application (such as previous marriages, divorces, children, etc.) then you can deduce that the refusal is because they suspect your relationship is fraudulent.

Only you (and your fiancee) can really answer the question "WHY specifically does the consulate think your relationship is fraudulent ?" The answer may not be because of one single red flag, but a pattern of multiple red flags. The questions you were asked in the interview may provide your best clues as to what specifically the consulate found to be suspicious.

Course of action:

#1. Your fiancee should be on the phone and on email with the consulate every day and several times a day, persistently and urgently asking to speak to a consular official about the refusal and requesting the consulate hold the case and give you the chance to provide additional information and evidence.

#2. If it's too late for #1 (if the consulate claims the petition has already been shipped out in the diplomatic pouch, headed back to the USCIS) and you both wish to continue trying, then your fiancee should prepare to file again (including paying all the fees again.) USCIS will likely not send any notice to her about the returned petition, but simply allow it to expire. Your fiancee can formally request to cancel that petition before refiling a new petition.

#3. You can refile with another K-1, or get married first and file a CR-1. Your second petition should be front-loaded with lots of evidence, including everything you sent before, as well as additional and newer stuff - it should have items showing the progress of an ongoing relationship from beginning until the present. You both should write statements addressing the previous denial, and each (calmly) explain in your own words why your relationship is real. Note that marriage can provide additional opportunities to gather more compelling evidence of legitimate ongoing relationship, such as joint financial accounts, joint-owned property, joint insurance policies, etc. that are not usually available to engaged couples. You don't have to refile immediately; it might help to pause for a bit. You could spend more time together in person, maybe even have several visits, before filing again.

#4. You MUST figure out why the consulate was not convinced of your sincerity, because you will have to address that in any future petitions or you will likely be denied again on the same basis. Again - only YOU know the answer to this. Look over your story as it was presented to the consulate, review your evidence, and think very carefully about each question that you were asked in the interview, and how you answered. Find the red flags and reflect on why the consulate might find something suspicious.

#5. Refiling will be a lengthy and very stressful process, and your success will depend on how well you address the weaknesses of your first petition/evidence/interview. I realize that you are adamantly against the idea of your fiancee joining VJ, but this attitude is actually harming your chances of success.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Ok i got it

SO what do you mean by FOIA??

FOIA = Freedom Of Information Act - it's a formal way of requesting privileged information from a government agency.

[Tough_Era 71]

Zagray -

Although the consulates use the "refusal" terminology, it's essentially the same thing as a "denial" - the consulate is "refusing" to issue you a visa, and sending your case back to USCIS, where it will be intentionally ignored and allowed to expire.

Linds&Youssef really said it very well in your other thread:

So the consulate either found something in your background that makes you ineligible, or they don't believe your relationship is genuine. If you have no crimes of moral turpitude on your record, you have no connections to a terror organization, and you did not misrepresent any information on your application (such as previous marriages, divorces, children, etc.) then you can deduce that the refusal is because they suspect your relationship is fraudulent.

Only you (and your fiancee) can really answer the question "WHY specifically does the consulate think your relationship is fraudulent ?" The answer may not be because of one single red flag, but a pattern of multiple red flags. The questions you were asked in the interview may provide your best clues as to what specifically the consulate found to be suspicious.

Course of action:

#1. Your fiancee should be on the phone and on email with the consulate every day and several times a day, persistently and urgently asking to speak to a consular official about the refusal and requesting the consulate hold the case and give you the chance to provide additional information and evidence.

#2. If it's too late for #1 (if the consulate claims the petition has already been shipped out in the diplomatic pouch, headed back to the USCIS) and you both wish to continue trying, then your fiancee should prepare to file again (including paying all the fees again.) USCIS will likely not send any notice to her about the returned petition, but simply allow it to expire. Your fiancee can formally request to cancel that petition before refiling a new petition.

#3. You can refile with another K-1, or get married first and file a CR-1. Your second petition should be front-loaded with lots of evidence, including everything you sent before, as well as additional and newer stuff - it should have items showing the progress of an ongoing relationship from beginning until the present. You both should write statements addressing the previous denial, and each (calmly) explain in your own words why your relationship is real. Note that marriage can provide additional opportunities to gather more compelling evidence of legitimate ongoing relationship, such as joint financial accounts, joint-owned property, joint insurance policies, etc. that are not usually available to engaged couples. You don't have to refile immediately; it might help to pause for a bit. You could spend more time together in person, maybe even have several visits, before filing again.

#4. You MUST figure out why the consulate was not convinced of your sincerity, because you will have to address that in any future petitions or you will likely be denied again on the same basis. Again - only YOU know the answer to this. Look over your story as it was presented to the consulate, review your evidence, and think very carefully about each question that you were asked in the interview, and how you answered. Find the red flags and reflect on why the consulate might find something suspicious.

#5. Refiling will be a lengthy and very stressful process, and your success will depend on how well you address the weaknesses of your first petition/evidence/interview. I realize that you are adamantly against the idea of your fiancee joining VJ, but this attitude is actually harming your chances of success.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

FOIA = Freedom Of Information Act - it's a formal way of requesting privileged information from a government agency.

Ok so can you give me the phone number and adress email of USCIS so the petitioner can contact them?

Thank you so much for this post.

[Tough_Era 71]

Your fiance can try to find the reason with a FOIA request and ask for consular notes.

Ok tell me how please?

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Ok so can you give me the phone number and adress email of USCIS so the petitioner can contact them?

Thank you so much for this post.

She would need to contact the office that processed the petition. Click on the map to get contact info for specific offices:

"Find your office by state"

https://egov.uscis.gov/crisgwi/go?action=offices.type&OfficeLocator.office_type=SC

Edited November 6, 2012 by wife_of_mahmoud

[abbi627 43]

Hi Zagray,

Sorry to hear about your denial. I don't know you but I feel for all of us going through this difficult process. Now I cannot give any real advice as I am so new to this process. But I can tell you just from my experience that I have learned so much from asking questions and just reading others' questions and responses. My fiance are both on here and often one of us will miss something the other one reads. We discuss these boards regularly. I tell you this because even though you feel it is best for your fiance to not be on here - and that is of course totally up to the two of you - I would highly recommend that she think about coming here. Because - and this is just my personal opinion - when it comes right down to it I know that I as the USC am the one who has to file and I want to be as prepared as possible. This is not an easy process. Far from it. And I need every bit of knowledge that I can get. And sometimes just reading other peoples' posts gives me ideas I had not thought of before. I know that some posts can seem hurtful. I do not know other peoples' intentions of course but I feel like that even the harsh comments can be helpful. They have been there and are giving their perspective. So I would suggest that she come here - not necessarily to make friends although that is nice - but to benefit from the experience of those who have "been there done that". At least that is how I see it.

Again I do not know you and I am wishing only the best for you and for everyone here. Just wanted to give my opinion for what it is worth. And to wish you the very best.

[Tough_Era 71]

She would need to contact the office that processed the petition. Click on the map to get contact info for specific offices:

"Find your office by state"

https://egov.uscis.gov/crisgwi/go?action=offices.type&OfficeLocator.office_type=SC

Thank you so much.

[Tough_Era 71]

Hi Zagray,

Sorry to hear about your denial. I don't know you but I feel for all of us going through this difficult process. Now I cannot give any real advice as I am so new to this process. But I can tell you just from my experience that I have learned so much from asking questions and just reading others' questions and responses. My fiance are both on here and often one of us will miss something the other one reads. We discuss these boards regularly. I tell you this because even though you feel it is best for your fiance to not be on here - and that is of course totally up to the two of you - I would highly recommend that she think about coming here. Because - and this is just my personal opinion - when it comes right down to it I know that I as the USC am the one who has to file and I want to be as prepared as possible. This is not an easy process. Far from it. And I need every bit of knowledge that I can get. And sometimes just reading other peoples' posts gives me ideas I had not thought of before. I know that some posts can seem hurtful. I do not know other peoples' intentions of course but I feel like that even the harsh comments can be helpful. They have been there and are giving their perspective. So I would suggest that she come here - not necessarily to make friends although that is nice - but to benefit from the experience of those who have "been there done that". At least that is how I see it.

Again I do not know you and I am wishing only the best for you and for everyone here. Just wanted to give my opinion for what it is worth. And to wish you the very best.

Your post is awesome and encouraging

Thank you so much.

[Darnell 8,478]

Good night Darnell, Please don't get offended.

You're one of my favorite member.

I am preferring to remain offended, however.

Tempus Fugit.

[Penguin_ie 5,994]

**** several personal attacks removed. If you have nothing constructive to say, don;t post/ put the OP on Ignore. ****

[USA-ALG 63]

I so agree...

There's quite a display of narcissism from Zagray's posts, self-aggrandizing grandeur, and a touch of male chauvinism could be seen.

Sociopaths don't see anything WRONG with their behaviors and post blame on others at the same time acting that they're so innocent.

http://www.healthguidance.org/entry/15850/1/Characteristics-of-a-Sociopath.html

You really don't have a clue as to why you would have been denied? Really? Not an inkling that perhaps it's YOU? That perhaps your behavior could be the reason? Aside from the obvious fact that your fiancee is old enough to be your mother, what do YOU think is the reason you got denied? Perhaps your eagerness and your fiancee's lack of action and commitment to the process? Perhaps your comments on this forum as well as Facebook or any other public internet forums/social networking sites ie poetry forums? It could be a lot of reasons and they all pretty much point to you.