Prosperity Gospel in America

[bsd058 296]

Seems to be a lot of prosperity gospel in this forum. Hopefully this will reach out to maybe one person out there. Possibly they will give their lives to Christ for real.

Does the prosperity teachings of the so-called Church make you sick, too?

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

I actually went and saw Joel Osteen one time around 2010. Some girl I was dating wanted to go and yad yada yada. Anyway he told everyone at the arena that they would all be prosperous and healthy for the next year, receive finical blessings etc. His wife had the perma fake smile, but you could tell she was disgusted with whole mess and was probably going to lite into his #### as soon as they got off stage.

Your right the prosperity gospel is absurd.

[bsd058 296]

Yes. Joel Osteen is one of the worst for that. It almost makes me want to vomit. Thanks for chiming in.

[Danno 1,228]

I am familiar with the Prosperity Doctrine so I think I would recognize it...... you wrote that you saw it in posts on here, What are you referring to?

[bsd058 296]

I am familiar with the Prosperity Doctrine so I think I would recognize it...... you wrote that you saw it in posts on here, What are you referring to?

Not posts. Sorry. I meant in the "What's on your mind?" section. Status updates. People just think that if they praise enough or name it and claim it they'll get what they want from God (approval for NOA2 or IR-1, etc.). I don't mind the praising part so much. But these "name it and claim it" and "speak it into existence" word of faithers seem to believe that God will give them whatever they want, quoting things like "God will give you the desires of your heart." (Ps 37:4) And they don't realize that the first part of the verse, "Delight yourself in the Lord" expresses the condition, and that condition is that your desire becomes the Lord himself, not the earthly things you want. Taking the Bible out of context, and then defending it.

They don't take into consideration the suffering we're called to for the name of Christ. How people will mock you and things are supposed to go wrong in your life, and we're to consider it joy (Jame 1:2) when it happens. The emphasis is on what I want and what I desire.

Again, I don't have anything against praising God for what he gives. I just have something against believing he will give you what you want when your desires aren't what he desires for you. Only trials produce patience and show the fruit of the Spirit. That's what God's main concern is. Producing fruit in your life in and through your suffering with Christ, and glorifying his name in your life.

[Teddy B 17,252]

Not posts. Sorry. I meant in the "What's on your mind?" section. Status updates. People just think that if they praise enough or name it and claim it they'll get what they want from God (approval for NOA2 or IR-1, etc.). I don't mind the praising part so much. But these "name it and claim it" and "speak it into existence" word of faithers seem to believe that God will give them whatever they want, quoting things like "God will give you the desires of your heart." (Ps 37:4) And they don't realize that the first part of the verse, "Delight yourself in the Lord" expresses the condition, and that condition is that your desire becomes the Lord himself, not the earthly things you want. Taking the Bible out of context, and then defending it.

They don't take into consideration the suffering we're called to for the name of Christ. How people will mock you and things are supposed to go wrong in your life, and we're to consider it joy (Jame 1:2) when it happens. The emphasis is on what I want and what I desire.

Again, I don't have anything against praising God for what he gives. I just have something against believing he will give you what you want when your desires aren't what he desires for you. Only trials produce patience and show the fruit of the Spirit. That's what God's main concern is. Producing fruit in your life in and through your suffering with Christ, and glorifying his name in your life.

I am an atheist, but was raised in an Italian Catholic family. I can relate to what you say from personal experience. It's also quite refreshing to see someone who does believe speak these words. Good for you!

[Danno 1,228]

Bumped into this related story today.

No Judgment! Selective Intolerance and the Atrophy of Virtuous Christian Outrage

By Luke Hamilton / 1 November 2012 / 42 Comments

In today’s Christian community, it is nearly impossible to provoke outrage. Whether this is a result of the pacifism ensconced in the heart of many of America’s most influential churches, or whether we’ve lost our righteous indignation by overcompensating from what has been perceived as the Puritanical prohibition of our preceding generations, it isn’t clear and ultimately it does not matter. What does should matter is that the Christian community seems to save all of its outrage and scorn for one target: anyone who dares to criticize the Christian community from within.

If you want to spark a bare-knuckle cage match, mention an unbiblical stance taken by a prominent Christian leader in this country. And then duck. All of the outrage and vitriol which should have been directed at those who are undermining the credibility of the Gospel and taking the Lord’s name in vain, will be mortared in your direction. I have seen it happen time and again in a bizarre, cannibalistic charade of self-righteousness and intellectual confusion. Instead of standing for God’s righteousness and speaking against evil, these woebegone milksops stand for evil and speak against God’s righteousness.

This phenomenon manifests itself in a number of ways. It includes apologists for the naked greed and plutocracy of Prosperity Pimps like Creflo Dollar, Eddie Money, Benny Hinn, Joyce Meyers, and others. The tolerance and adoring acceptance shown to cross-over artists like Joel Osteen, who has managed to marry the health-and-wealth gospel with Eastern mysticism.

We see a benevolent indulgence of overt enemies to the cross of Christ when they pay lip-service to their “Christian beliefs”; politicians like Nancy Pelosi, Barack Obama, and Joe Biden practically raise a hand to swear they follow the path of the Lord Jesus while with their other hand they sign bills and orders which finance the wholesale slaughter of innocent fetuses in our country and others.

Most recently, we’ve seen defenders of Jim Daly as he absconds from the mission statement of Focus on the Family to pursue “the Gospel”, as if spreading the Gospel and edifying American families were mutually exclusive activities. Many believers give intellectual approbation and theological cover for “pastors” such as Rob Bell and Jim Wallis, despite the fact that they repudiate basic Scriptural foundations with their words, books, and actions.

One would hope that the righteous anger of the Lord’s disciples would be heaped on these charlatans who use the name and blood of Messiah like a letterman’s jacket because it helps them get into all the right parties. But if this was so, how would this crowd be able to achieve the level of prosperity and renown which they have attained? If Joel Osteen was properly recognized as the snake-oil salesman that he is, he wouldn’t be the pastor of the largest church in America. He wouldn’t be leering at us from the racks of the New York Times Bestseller list at the front of the book store. He would be preaching out of the trunk of an El Camino, getting run out of one town after another once folks got wind of his spineless Buddhist-Christianity.

The sad fact is that most of Christendom would rather bite the tongue and look the other way than confront sin in someone who claims to speak for their Lord. And when a brave soul does stand and speak against the evil masquerading as good, they are pilloried for their efforts. The troubling thing is that much of the fragging comes from within the Christian community. Like one of the Old Testament prophets, these brave souls are verbally stoned and left for dead outside the city gates, all because they dared to question the validity of a ministry or organization which bears the mantle of our Lord.

Is this Biblical? Is this the proper response to those who would speak out against prominent leaders in the church? Paul tells Timothy in his first letter, “Those who are sinning rebuke in the presence of all, that the rest may fear.” Paul himself rebukes the entire Galatian church for their errant embrace of legalism. When the big dog himself, Peter, was in error, Paul confronted him with it. First Paul took him aside to try and deal with it privately and when that didn’t work, Paul confronted him in front of the entire assembly. He tells the Romans to “Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good.” We’ve changed this to “Abhor what is critical. Cling to what sounds good. ”

The bottom line is that not only are we permitted to question the motives and actions of the leaders of our churches when they stray into unbiblical territory, we have an obligation to do so. The Bible offers a crystal-clear method of doing so. Christ says to first remove the beam from your own eye, but He doesn’t stop there, does He? Remove our beam . . . so that we can help our brother remove the splinter from his. The Lord is telling us not to be hypocritical, He’s not forbidding criticism. If I love Joel Osteen as myself, how can I NOT warn him about the dangers of adding and subtracting from the Word of God?

Christians need to take a step back and refocus. The Apostle Paul has ceased to be our guide, instead we’ve settled for Ned Flanders. Western society is decaying more quickly as each year passes and we are too busy running popularity contests to be the salt and light which we’re called to be. Let us stop shooting the messenger and re-train our sights on those who use our Lord’s name like a debit card.

Read more: http://clashdaily.com/2012/11/no-judgment-selective-intolerance-and-the-atrophy-of-virtuous-christian-outrage/#ixzz2B61iKkwM

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[bsd058 296]

I am an atheist, but was raised in an Italian Catholic family. I can relate to what you say from personal experience. It's also quite refreshing to see someone who does believe speak these words. Good for you!

Thanks, man. I appreciate that.

Danno, thanks for the article. I agree. These men teach #######, and no one in their congregation is allowed to criticize them. It's just messed up. I also have to make sure my own motives are right, otherwise I could end up being a hypocrite just like them.

Edited November 2, 2012 by bsd058

[Danno 1,228]

Thanks, man. I appreciate that.

Danno, thanks for the article. I agree. These men teach #######, and no one in their congregation is allowed to criticize them. It's just messed up. I also have to make sure my own motives are right, otherwise I could end up being a hypocrite just like them.

But I don't know that we can call the hypocrites ... they preach the gospel of Earthy reward...... and then they live it out.

[bsd058 296]

But I don't know that we can call the hypocrites ... they preach the gospel of Earthy reward...... and then they live it out.

You know what? You're right!

Here's another video I found on the subject. Has to do with Joel Osteen.

[Danno 1,228]

I don't get to much into analyzing these things but it would seem to me, any doctrine would have to be applicable to the whole church everywhere and at all times.

When we consider circumstances that people in general, or Christians specifically have perished under historically, it fails this test and the of course it goes on to mock the Faithful, that they just did not apply faith correctly..... or they would have been delivered from the sword or the lion or the famine.

I am inclined more towards the idea based on the scripture that says something about the "Rain falling on the just and the unjust equally" and of course rain is the resource with brings life to everything.