Getting a USA tourist visa in Beijing?

[RobEnglish 0]

I’m in Beijing and need to go to the USA, but no plans to go home to London. Can I apply for a tourist visa in Beijing, and how long does it take? (I spent too much time in the USA on the visa waiver program and was told at JFK last time that I should apply for a tourist visa before visiting again).

Any advice much appreciated. Thank you!

[jaycali 415]

Were you actually denied entry and sent back home?

Or were you simply told verbally you should apply for a visa next time "but we'll be nice this time"?

Unless you were actually denied entry or overstayed, you shouldn't need to apply for a tourist visa.

[Penguin_ie 5,996]

Agree with JayJay- try renewing your ESTA and see if it is accepted; if you apply for a tourist visa and get denied, you can never use VWP again, so worth a try.

That being said yes, you can apply via your local US embassy. It usually takes 4-6 weeks, not sure about Bejing specifically.

[RobEnglish 0]

Hello, thanks for the responses. No, I was not denied entry or sent home (and I have never overstayed 90 days). They let me in, but just said that because I visited many times, I should apply for a tourist visa next time. I haven't been in the USA since leaving early April 2012, and that was a 5 or 6 week trip. This time I'll have a return ticket (to Beijing) after just a 9 day trip. My ESTA is due to expire in January anyway. I applied for that twice before (2009 and 2011) and never felt like it was "accepted" vs "denied", as I thought that was always really decided on arrival. Do you think that if I apply for the ESTA and it goes through the system okay, I am safe to visit without problems?

So which is the biggest chance to take: risk going on the ESTA + VWP and getting sent home, or risk applying for a tourist visa and getting it rejected?

The problem is that Beijing is a day's travel away plus expense round trip from where I am (maybe US$400). And in China as a foreigner you need your passport everywhere. I can't exactly leave my passport at the US embassy and collect it / have it sent to me a month later when the visa is ready. Can't even get a hotel in China without a passport, as hotels have to register guests with the police. So this is a real dilemma. I can't be without my passport for more than a day or two.

Any further advice would be much appreciated. Thank you!

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

They will not give you a B2, and there is no reason to force them to deny you a B2 and consequently being denied travel under the VWP as well..

Ignore the " . . . they said that because I visited many times, I should apply for a tourist visa next time" comment.

It's B.S.

[Boiler 45,995]

Generally speaking you need to be resident in a country to apply at that Consulate.

[Moomin 292]

Well, having spent too much time in the US won't make the B2 a better option than VWP. The only way of overcoming that is simply by staying out of the US until you have spent more time outside US than inside. Technically, it's "spent more time in home country" due to proving ties to home country. You're possibly closing 2 doors by applying for a tourist visa in Beijing and getting it denied because you might not be able to demonstrate your ties to home country or why you'd be returning. Then you're left with no ESTA and no tourist visa. And yes, the final word is the CBP officer's so even if you were to get a tourist visa, you can't take the CBP officer out of the equation.

Here's the FAQ from the US embassy; http://beijing.usembassy-china.org.cn/niv_general.html#niv6

[Asia 2,499]

IMHO if you apply for B2, they might suspect that you want to spend more than 90 days (which you'll get while using VWP) in the US this time... Which is untrue, but might get you without B2 and without ESTA. I, personally, wouldn;t risk it.

[RobEnglish 0]

Hello,

Thank you all for taking the time to comment and offer advice! Very helpful.

Brother Hesekiel, why do you say they will not give me a B2 tourist visa? I appreciate what you said about risking the B2 application + future VWP travel (also thanks for the same advice from Asia and Moomin). But how can I be certain that the “you visited too many times under the VWP, next time apply for a tourist visa” comment is really BS? I hope you are absolutely right.

Boiler, technically for one year I am a resident in China. I have a student visa – technically a 12-month residents permit (it says “residence permit” not “visa”).

Moomin, thanks for your comments about staying out of the US until I have spent more time outside US than inside. Here’s an update: in 2010 I spent almost 6 months in the USA (2 trips, each less than 90 days). In 2011 I spent almost 6 months in the USA until August 2011 (2 trips, each less than 90 days). I returned for just one week in October 2011. Then, my last trip was in spring 2012 (the only trip in 2012). I haven’t been there since April (left early April after a 5 or 6 week trip). Technically I’ve spent more time out of the USA, but still a lot of time in the USA. None since April.

About proving ties to my home country, and reasons to leave the USA after a short Christmas visit: I have proof of study in China until next September; I have a tenancy agreement in China until next September (rent already paid until March); plus strong ties to the UK: PhD funding for which I have to be resident in the UK (with the exception of this related stay in China).

To re-apply for the ESTA now would not indicate anything, would it? It might just go through but does not mean that they’ll let me in when I get there! (Do online ESTA applications ever get “rejected” or is it just a formality, but ultimately down to the discretion of the officer at the airport in the USA?)

Is there any way to talk to anyone at the embassy about my specific case?

Thanks again.

[Penguin_ie 5,996]

Yes, ESTA gets rejected if something is clearly "wrong". You can call the embassy to get an opinion, but frankly, like youi say, it is up to the officer at the border- whether you go on the VWP or a B2 tourist visa. They have final decision making power to let you in or not, and for how long.

[jaycali 415]

Yes, ESTA gets rejected if something is "wrong" as penguin says. The fact of the matter is that if your ESTA is approved, applying for a B-2 is overkill and raises eyebrows more than anything. If you're somehow flagged, ESTA would be refused, and you'd be unlikely to get a B-2 approved.

I would go on the VWP. For peace of mind I would probably try a different POE than last time, just to avoid any possibility of that off chance awkward moment when you get the same CBP officer.

Edited November 3, 2012 by Jay Jay

[Moomin 292]

Moomin, thanks for your comments about staying out of the US until I have spent more time outside US than inside. Here’s an update: in 2010 I spent almost 6 months in the USA (2 trips, each less than 90 days). In 2011 I spent almost 6 months in the USA until August 2011 (2 trips, each less than 90 days). I returned for just one week in October 2011. Then, my last trip was in spring 2012 (the only trip in 2012). I haven’t been there since April (left early April after a 5 or 6 week trip). Technically I’ve spent more time out of the USA, but still a lot of time in the USA. None since April.

The time spent in the US is calculated on a rolling year; ie from November 2011 to November 2012 or any other two dates with a year in between. The CBP officer does have access to your US travel history though.

As I mentioned, the CBP officer has the last word so even with a B2, you cannot be 100 % sure until the CBP officer stamps your passport.

When the reasoning is "because I visited too many times", then a new tourist visa won't overcome that. So if you go for it and you're turned away at POE anyways, not only can't you travel on VWP, you can't use the B2.

Personally, I think travelling on ESTA is a good idea and it will get you just as far as a B2. Bring proof of supporting yourself on your US trip, along with returning to your studies and return ticket. Only offer to show it if you're asked. Those ties are usually the papers you're being asked to bring to a B2 interview to demonstrate you'll be returning.

[jaycali 415]

The time spent in the US is calculated on a rolling year; ie from November 2011 to November 2012 or any other two dates with a year in between. The CBP officer does have access to your US travel history though.As I mentioned, the CBP officer has the last word so even with a B2, you cannot be 100 % sure until the CBP officer stamps your passport. When the reasoning is "because I visited too many times", then a new tourist visa won't overcome that. So if you go for it and you're turned away at POE anyways, not only can't you travel on VWP, you can't use the B2.Personally, I think travelling on ESTA is a good idea and it will get you just as far as a B2. Bring proof of supporting yourself on your US trip, along with returning to your studies and return ticket. Only offer to show it if you're asked. Those ties are usually the papers you're being asked to bring to a B2 interview to demonstrate you'll be returning.

Agree fully.

But there is no law stating you have to be out of the US more than in the US. Schengen has a law specifying you can only be inside up to 180 days in one year, the US does not. It is however, a good rule of thumb. If you have a good enough reason to be in the US more than 6 months out of the year (non-consecutively) there is no law barring you from it.

"Visited too many times" is a normal warning from CBP for people who.. well.. Visit too often for their story to be credible. The fact is though that 1. A tourist visa won't change your eligibility or ineligibility to re-enter, and 2. A verbal statement from a CBP officer doesn't really mean much - You're eligible to use the VWP until the day you're denied entry or overstay.

If you were to be denied entry this time around on the VWP, chances are the CBP officer would have denied you entry on a B-2 anyway.

Edited November 3, 2012 by Jay Jay

[RobEnglish 0]

Thanks Moomin and Jay Jay.

So the rolling year will be the 12 months prior to my arrival in December? This would only show one visit, for 5-6 weeks. Ok, so they can check back at my record.

I understand what you mean by “A verbal statement from a CBP officer doesn't really mean much”, but of course, I take what they say seriously. They let me in last time, hopefully they will let me in this time. So what they say does count for something…?

Going to renew my ESTA this week (even though it doesn't expire until early 2013). If there's no problem with that, I'll book a flight.

I'll let you know what happens.

[Moomin 292]

Thanks Moomin and Jay Jay.

So the rolling year will be the 12 months prior to my arrival in December? This would only show one visit, for 5-6 weeks. Ok, so they can check back at my record.

I understand what you mean by “A verbal statement from a CBP officer doesn't really mean much”, but of course, I take what they say seriously. They let me in last time, hopefully they will let me in this time. So what they say does count for something…?

Going to renew my ESTA this week (even though it doesn't expire until early 2013). If there's no problem with that, I'll book a flight.

I'll let you know what happens.

Well, the statement counts, only because they have access to your travel history and pattern if they decide to look it up. But a verbal statement isn't the same as being refused, and nothing prevents you from visiting, or at least trying.

Yes, that's a rolling year.