Kerry gives his opinion of our servicepeople in Iraq

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Rhetoric at the expense of the issues makes for a phoney debate

What's scary is how gullible people are to this sort of nonsense. Pure rubbish.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Here's another - how can someone who agonises over "pro-life" issues, in good conscience support this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Futile_Care_Law

The Texas Advance Directives Act (1999), also known as the Texas Futile Care Law, describes certain provisions that are now Chapter 166 of the Texas Health & Safety Code. Controversy over these provisions mainly centers on Section 166.046, Subsection (e),[1] which allows a health care facility to discontinue life-sustaining treatment against the wishes of the patient or guardian ten days after giving written notice.

The bill was signed into law while George W. Bush was Governor of Texas; critics have compared this law and its effects with Bush's response to Terri Schiavo's situation, in particular his signing of the Incapacitated Person's Legal Protection Act

On March 15, 2005, six-month-old infant Sun Hudson was the first person to die under the Texas Futile Care Law. [3]

In December 2005, Tirhas Habtegiris, a young woman and legal immigrant from Africa, was removed from a respirator.[4]

In April 2006, relatives of 53-year old Andrea Clark were given the 10-day notice under this act.[5] [6] She had reportedly signed a statement she did not wish to die and was cognisant although having difficulties communicating while under heavy medication. After publicity from both right and left political groups, St. Luke's hospital in Houston agreed to review the case again, eventually retracting the original decision this further review. Andrea Clark, once deemed a "futile" case, then began to recover [7], but ultimately died on May 8, 2006 after an infection. [8]

Compare that with:

Government involvement in the Terri Schiavo case

Genuine compassion or cynical grandstanding?

Edited November 1, 2006 by erekose

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Here's another - how can someone who agonises over "pro-life" issues, in good conscience support this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Futile_Care_Law

The Texas Advance Directives Act (1999), also known as the Texas Futile Care Law, describes certain provisions that are now Chapter 166 of the Texas Health & Safety Code. Controversy over these provisions mainly centers on Section 166.046, Subsection (e),[1] which allows a health care facility to discontinue life-sustaining treatment against the wishes of the patient or guardian ten days after giving written notice.

The bill was signed into law while George W. Bush was Governor of Texas; critics have compared this law and its effects with Bush's response to Terri Schiavo's situation, in particular his signing of the Incapacitated Person's Legal Protection Act

On March 15, 2005, six-month-old infant Sun Hudson was the first person to die under the Texas Futile Care Law. [3]

In December 2005, Tirhas Habtegiris, a young woman and legal immigrant from Africa, was removed from a respirator.[4]

In April 2006, relatives of 53-year old Andrea Clark were given the 10-day notice under this act.[5] [6] She had reportedly signed a statement she did not wish to die and was cognisant although having difficulties communicating while under heavy medication. After publicity from both right and left political groups, St. Luke's hospital in Houston agreed to review the case again, eventually retracting the original decision this further review. Andrea Clark, once deemed a "futile" case, then began to recover [7], but ultimately died on May 8, 2006 after an infection. [8]

Compare that with:

Government involvement in the Terri Schiavo case

Genuine compassion or cynical grandstanding?

I think it's safe to say that based on the above quotes and this evidence that Dubbya is a terrorist supporting, flip-flopping baby killer... sheesh what a scumbag! That's got to make him also....da da da da...anti-American!

Edited November 1, 2006 by Steven_and_Jinky

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Here's another - how can someone who agonises over "pro-life" issues, in good conscience support this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Futile_Care_Law

The Texas Advance Directives Act (1999), also known as the Texas Futile Care Law, describes certain provisions that are now Chapter 166 of the Texas Health & Safety Code. Controversy over these provisions mainly centers on Section 166.046, Subsection (e),[1] which allows a health care facility to discontinue life-sustaining treatment against the wishes of the patient or guardian ten days after giving written notice.

The bill was signed into law while George W. Bush was Governor of Texas; critics have compared this law and its effects with Bush's response to Terri Schiavo's situation, in particular his signing of the Incapacitated Person's Legal Protection Act

On March 15, 2005, six-month-old infant Sun Hudson was the first person to die under the Texas Futile Care Law. [3]

In December 2005, Tirhas Habtegiris, a young woman and legal immigrant from Africa, was removed from a respirator.[4]

In April 2006, relatives of 53-year old Andrea Clark were given the 10-day notice under this act.[5] [6] She had reportedly signed a statement she did not wish to die and was cognisant although having difficulties communicating while under heavy medication. After publicity from both right and left political groups, St. Luke's hospital in Houston agreed to review the case again, eventually retracting the original decision this further review. Andrea Clark, once deemed a "futile" case, then began to recover [7], but ultimately died on May 8, 2006 after an infection. [8]

Compare that with:

Government involvement in the Terri Schiavo case

Genuine compassion or cynical grandstanding?

I think it's safe to say that based on the above quotes and this evidence that Dubbya is a terrorist supporting, flip-flopping baby killer... sheesh what a scumbag! That's got to make him also....da da da da...anti-American!

I think its important to illustrate the distinction between a genuine ideological conflict represented by a specific issue, as opposed to quibbling over the presentation of arbitrary statements, several degrees removed from the actual issue.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

A Democratic Congressional candidate from Iowa is canceling a campaign event later this week with Senator John Kerry.

Brucy Braley says Kerry's recent comments about the Iraq war were inappropriate.

Braley is running against Republican Mike Whalen in Iowa's First District congressional race. It's a contest considered to be one of the most competitive House races in the country.

Braley's decision to distance himself from Kerry came as a furor grew from comments Kerry made about the Iraq War during a campaign stop in California on Monday.

http://www.eyewitnessnewstv.com/Global/sto...95&nav=F2DO

[one...two...tree 2,762]

A Democratic Congressional candidate from Iowa is canceling a campaign event later this week with Senator John Kerry.

Brucy Braley says Kerry's recent comments about the Iraq war were inappropriate.

Braley is running against Republican Mike Whalen in Iowa's First District congressional race. It's a contest considered to be one of the most competitive House races in the country.

Braley's decision to distance himself from Kerry came as a furor grew from comments Kerry made about the Iraq War during a campaign stop in California on Monday.

http://www.eyewitnessnewstv.com/Global/sto...95&nav=F2DO

Ah, yes...well Kerry has political cooties now. How true it is that a lie repeated over and over again begins to be accepted as truth. The label that Kerry is against the troops is one of those lies that started back when he returned from Vietnam to protest the war.

Here's what this troop hating anti-American has said...

"It is imperative that we succeed in Iraq. But to do so, we have to tackle the challenge of rebuilding Iraq an effective way, not the Bush Administration’s failed way. We need a detailed plan, including fixed timetables and costs, for establishing civil, economic and political security in Iraq."

"George Bush's vision does not live up to the America I enlisted in the Navy to defend, the America I have fought for in the Senate, and the America that I hope to lead as president. "

"I personally didn't see personal atrocities in the sense I saw somebody cut a head off or something like that. However, I did take part in free-fire zones, I did take part in harassment and interdiction fire, I did take part in search-and-destroy missions. "

"I saw courage both in the Vietnam War and in the struggle to stop it. I learned that patriotism includes protest, not just military service."

"I will never conduct a war or start a war because we want to; the United States of America should only go to war because we have to. And if you live by that guidance, you'll never have veterans throwing away their medals or standing up in protest. "

"I'm tired of my tax dollars going to Arab leaders who support schools that teach people how to drive airplanes into our buildings. "

"If I am president, I will be prepared to use military force to protect our security, our people and our vital interests. But I will never send our troops into harm's way without enough firepower and support. "

"No one is going to question my commitment to the defence of our nation. I don't know what it is these Republicans, who didn't serve in any war, have against those of us who are Democrats who did. "

"We do not need to divide America over who served and how. I have personally always believed that many served in many different ways. Someone who was deeply against the war in 1969 or 1970 may well have served their country with equal passion and patriotism by opposing the war as by fighting in it. "

"We need a commander in chief and a vice president who puts the interests of our troops and our taxpayers ahead of their big money friends. "

[Carol&Marc 0]

Gary: a stand up guy that loves his country! Hates WAR but knows the words GOD and COUNTRY!

Erekrose: tries to be neutral but fails miserably======== is directionless! AKA FUKCIN, BORED! needs someone to LIKE him! shows zero EMOTION like a printer that just spits GARBLE.oieoieuoieutoeiutoi4utoiutoeiut!

Gupt: knows how he /her feels but is respectful!

Steve: needs a second job? or maybe one where he actually works? best guess is he works for the gov. posts lots of shite ALLLLLLL fukcin day long while the guys fight for is right to DO SO! MOTTO is RUN AND HIDE! and GIVE ME MONEY!

REINHARD: Quit thinkin so much about your party! This young ladies husband died for your right to spew the SHITE that you do every fkcin day, you bit#ch about how long your job interview is, listen to her song! her husband is DEAD! ................... you and yours are safe? GOT A SOUL?????? SEARCH IT!

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fusea...iendid=32599420

Everyone else? GET FCKIN INVOLVED!

Edited November 1, 2006 by Carol&Marc

[Artegal 1]

Found this on the Army Website, or was it Senator Kerry's?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Gary: a stand up guy that loves his country! Hates WAR but knows the words GOD and COUNTRY!

Erekrose: tries to be neutral but fails miserably======== is directionless! AKA FUKCIN, BORED! needs someone to LIKE him! shows zero EMOTION like a printer that just spits GARBLE.oieoieuoieutoeiutoi4utoiutoeiut!

Gupt: knows how he /her feels but is respectful!

Steve: needs a second job? or maybe one where he actually works? best guess is he works for the gov. posts lots of shite ALLLLLLL fukcin day long while the guys fight for is right to DO SO! MOTTO is RUN AND HIDE! and GIVE ME MONEY!

REINHARD: Quit thinkin so much about your party! This young ladies husband died for your right to spew the SHITE that you do every fkcin day, you bit#ch about how long your job interview is, listen to her song! her husband is DEAD! ................... you and yours are safe? GOT A SOUL?????? SEARCH IT!

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fusea...iendid=32599420

Everyone else? GET FCKIN INVOLVED!

Carol&Marc: Tries to be patriotic, but doesn't seem to understand "American values". In other words - can't differentiate the American flag from a roll of toilet paper - and doesn't realise that everytime he reposts Administration Doublespeak he's wiping his fat ####### all over it.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Gary: a stand up guy that loves his country! Hates WAR but knows the words GOD and COUNTRY!

Erekrose: tries to be neutral but fails miserably======== is directionless! AKA FUKCIN, BORED! needs someone to LIKE him! shows zero EMOTION like a printer that just spits GARBLE.oieoieuoieutoeiutoi4utoiutoeiut!

Gupt: knows how he /her feels but is respectful!

Steve: needs a second job? or maybe one where he actually works? best guess is he works for the gov. posts lots of shite ALLLLLLL fukcin day long while the guys fight for is right to DO SO! MOTTO is RUN AND HIDE! and GIVE ME MONEY!

REINHARD: Quit thinkin so much about your party! This young ladies husband died for your right to spew the SHITE that you do every fkcin day, you bit#ch about how long your job interview is, listen to her song! her husband is DEAD! ................... you and yours are safe? GOT A SOUL?????? SEARCH IT!

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fusea...iendid=32599420

Everyone else? GET FCKIN INVOLVED!

Carol&Marc: Tries to be patriotic, but doesn't seem to understand "American values". In other words - can't differentiate the American flag from a roll of toilet paper - and doesn't realise that everytime he reposts Administration Doublespeak he's wiping his fat ####### all over it.

Couldn't have said it better.

ETA for C&M:

1) I complained about the length of a job interview? Get a fcuking clue, dude!

2) It's tragic that a wife loses her husband in a war. For anyone to link the death of any servicemen in Iraq to the safety of my family, however, is utter nonsense. The fact is that all US intelligence agencies agree that this particular war has made all of us less safe. It is the responsibility of those that send our servicemen and women into war to ensure that they are indeed defending the country and furthering our national security goals. This administration fails to do that. Which makes the death of that man and the 3,000 other US servicemen and women that have dies thus far and the deaths of the tens of thousands of Iraqis that have died even more tragic. I have a soul. I searched it. And I don't want to see another senseless death. Which is why this administration of incompetent war mongers needs to be stopped.

Edited November 1, 2006 by ET-US2004

[Saddle Bronc 124]

...

Erekrose: tries to be neutral but fails miserably======== is directionless! AKA FUKCIN, BORED! needs someone to LIKE him! shows zero EMOTION like a printer that just spits GARBLE.oieoieuoieutoeiutoi4utoiutoeiut!

...

That's due to his being a Limey--you know "keep stiff upper lip".

[dani_christine 0]

The active-duty Army exceeded its 2006 goal of 80,000 recruits by 635 after missing by almost 7,000 its 2005 target, which also was 80,000. The Army improved its fortunes by using more recruiters and offering richer enlistment bonuses, but also took steps some experts believe could undermine the quality of the force.

About 13,600 regular Army recruits -- 17 percent -- were accepted with waivers for past criminal conduct, drug or alcohol abuse or medical issues such as obesity. That compares to 11,018 such waivers last year, and 7,640 in 2001.

The Army said most recruits given "moral character" waivers had committed misdemeanors. It said it does not grant waivers for violent sex crimes or drug dealing.

HIGH SCHOOL DIPLOMAS

Only 81 percent of new Army recruits had a high school diploma, lagging a goal of 90 percent, said Maj. Gen. Thomas Bostick, Army Recruiting Command chief. Last year, 87 percent of recruits had a high school diploma.

The Army accepted 2,650 recruits who scored in the lowest permissible category -- from the 10th to 30th percentile -- in a standardized aptitude test. The Army last year doubled the percentage of recruits it is willing to accept from this category.

Reuters - Oct 10, 2006

ETA: Regardless of the above which seems to support a claim that the overall quality of the recruits is dropping, I don't agree with Kerry making the comment he made. The folks enlisting in the service deserve our respect whether they have high school diplomas or not.

yeah, so the army has 81 percent high-school grads, so they say. first, it should be noted that the US civilian population has only 75 percent high-school grads...so the armed forces are doing WAY better than the average population.

secondly, these guys aren't fighting with bayonettes. with today's technical weaponry, it requires advanced training and skill to be a soldier.

anyway, here's a little more detail about entrance requirements for each branch of the service:

Air Force

* ASVAB Score - Air Force recruits must score at least 36 points the 99-point ASVAB (Note: The "Overall" ASVAB Score is known as the "AFQT Score," or "Armed Forces Qualification Test Score"). Exceptions are made, however, for a handful of high school graduates who can score as low as 21. But these "category four- A" recruits (by regulation) cannot exceed more than one percent of all recruits per year. (Note: A "Category IVA recruit is a recruit who scores between 16 and 30 on the AFQT).# In actuality, the number of Cat IVA recruits the Air Force generally accepts each year is about 0.1 percent of the Air Force's annual accessions.

# Education - You're more likely to be struck by lightening than enlist in the Air Force without a high school diploma. Even with a GED, the chances are not good. Only about 1/2 of a percent of all Air Force enlistments each year are GED-Holders. To even be considered for one of these very few slots, a GED-holder must score a minimum of 65 on the AFQT. The Air Force allows a higher enlistment rank for recruits with college credit.

Army

* ASVAB Score - The Army requires a minimum AFQT Score of 31 to qualify for enlistment. However, in recent months, the Army has been approving more and more waivers for those with scores as low as 26 (Category IVA). To qualify for certain enlistment incentives, such as enlistment bonuses, an Army recruit must score a minimum of 50.

* Education - Those without a high school education need not apply. The Army allows no more than 10 to 15 percent per year of their enlistees to have a GED. To even be considered, a high school dropout (GED) must score at least a 50 on the AFQT. Like the Air Force, the Army also offers a higher enlistment rank for recruits with college. Unlike the Air Force, where the maximum initial enlistment rank for college credits is E-3, the Army offers the rank of E-4 for those with a bachelors degree.

Marine Corps

* ASVAB Score - Marine Corps recruits must score at least 32. A very few exceptions are made (about one percent) for some exceptionally otherwise qualified recruits with scores as low as 25.

* Education - As with the Army and Air Force, those without a high school education are ineligible. The Marine Corps limits GED enlistments to no more than five percent per year. Those with a GED must score a minimum of 50 on the AFQT to even be considered. As with the other services, the Marine Corps offers advanced enlistment rank for college credits. However, of all the services, the Marines are the most restrictive in this area. The maximum advanced rank for college credits is E-2, where the other services will give college credit advanced rank up to E-3 (E-4 in the Army).

Navy

* ASVAB Score - Navy recruits must score at least 35 on the AFQT. The Navy raised this requirement from 31 in 2003 for active duty accessions. Reserve enlistment programs still only require a score of 31. Additionally, because of limited berths on ships, the Navy limits the number of women they can enlist each year. Quite often, when there are too many female applicants, the Navy will require a higher ASVAB score for females in order to decide which women get to enlist and which don't.

* Education - Between 5 and 10 percent per year can be high school dropouts with a GED, but they must score a minimum of 50 on the AFQT. Additionally, high school dropouts must be at least 19 years of age, and show a proven work history. Like the other services, the Navy offers advanced enlistment rank (up to E-3) for college.

Coast Guard

* ASVAB Score - The Coast Guard requires a minimum of 40 points on the AFQT for those who took the ASVAB prior to July 1, 2004, and 36 for those who take the ASVAB after July 1, 2004. A waiver is possible if a recruit's ASVAB Line Scores qualify them for a specific job, and the recruit is willing to enlist in that job.

* Education - For a very few (about 5 percent) who will be allowed to enlist with a GED, the minimum AFQT. Minimum score is 50. The CG offers advanced enlistment rank of E-2 for 30 college credits, and E-3 for 60 credits.

source

the guys (and gals!) who are in Iraq are there because they CHOSE to be there. they were not drafted, they enlisted...and most likely, post-9/11.

Edited November 1, 2006 by dani_christine

[mrc 0]

[

anyway, here's a little more detail about entrance requirements for each branch of the service:

Air Force

* ASVAB Score - Air Force recruits must score at least 36 points the 99-point ASVAB (Note: The "Overall" ASVAB Score is known as the "AFQT Score," or "Armed Forces Qualification Test Score"). Exceptions are made, however, for a handful of high school graduates who can score as low as 21. But these "category four- A" recruits (by regulation) cannot exceed more than one percent of all recruits per year. (Note: A "Category IVA recruit is a recruit who scores between 16 and 30 on the AFQT).# In actuality, the number of Cat IVA recruits the Air Force generally accepts each year is about 0.1 percent of the Air Force's annual accessions.

# Education - You're more likely to be struck by lightening than enlist in the Air Force without a high school diploma. Even with a GED, the chances are not good. Only about 1/2 of a percent of all Air Force enlistments each year are GED-Holders. To even be considered for one of these very few slots, a GED-holder must score a minimum of 65 on the AFQT. The Air Force allows a higher enlistment rank for recruits with college credit.

source

I've been in the Air Force for 16 years now. I'm a technical school instructor. Honestly, I don't ever remember meeting an Air Force member who hasn't graduated high school in my 16 1/2 years of service. Currently, I am teaching a class with a student that scored had a 99 on his ASVAB/AFQT. If you took the military as a whole and you compared it with the civilian population sample size, you'd find that the military is much more educated. I hold two degrees and almost everyone I know has some college under their belt...that's just the way the force is shaping. In order to get ahead, you have to educate yourself.

I prefer not to get into political debates since I am a member of the U.S. Armed Forces and the president is my CINC. To say the military isn't educated and its members come from the lower rungs is insane. Certainly, we don't get too many members from the wealthy families, but then again, the wealth doesn't make up a large portion of the population.

[heishe 2]

Daniel Daniel Daniel.....................Can you say THE POWER! Logical? YES!

lol

[heishe 2]

They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, tape wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the country side of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.

http://www.c-span.org/2004vote/jkerrytestimony.asp

I might add that this all turned out later to be total fabrications.

SUPPORT THE TROOPS (warning - gruesome picture)