Kerry gives his opinion of our servicepeople in Iraq

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Now its 'out there' whatever the original intention was, its clearly acquired a very different character.

Hard to take it back / or clarify this sort of thing when the spin machine gets going. It builds up like an avalanche - soon you've got people who haven't read the story or heard the comments directly forming an opinion based solely on 2nd hand interpretation.

As I said, this is shaping up to be one very dirty election.

[GaryC 7]

They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, tape wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the country side of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.

http://www.c-span.org/2004vote/jkerrytestimony.asp

I might add that this all turned out later to be total fabrications.

[chri'stina 190]

No matter what he meant Kerry stuck his foot in his mouth by saying that.

Wow, the man (Kerry) has a politically incorrect opinion.

What opinion? He himself claims he was merely trying to joke about the Presidents lack of intellect and botched the delivery. Now he's on video sounding like he's calling the troops retards.

..........

Yep.

I think most of the ppl in this thread know my usual political stance. But even I see that he meant this as a dig to Bush, not directly towards the troops. It was Kerry's stupidity to say it how he said it though, where it could easily sound like he was referring to the troops, not Bush. And the whole comment/joke doesn't even make sense since Bush has a Master's degree. I don't get it...

Edited November 1, 2006 by stina&suj

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, tape wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the country side of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.

http://www.c-span.org/2004vote/jkerrytestimony.asp

I might add that this all turned out later to be total fabrications.

You might also add that you took this statement out of context making it sound as if Kerry was the one giving the actual account of the events while he really seemed to have recited what 150 other servicemen had testified to previously in a different setting:

I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command.

It is impossible to describe to you exactly what did happen in Detroit, the emotions in the room, the feelings of the men who were reliving their experiences in Vietnam, but they did. They relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do.

They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, tape wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the country side of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.

He is merely relating what other servicemen testified to in an earlier investigation. He's not making any claims of presenting his account of anything. But it sure makes for good propaganda to take what he said out of context.

Thanks for playing and be sure to try again!

[GaryC 7]

They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, tape wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the country side of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.

http://www.c-span.org/2004vote/jkerrytestimony.asp

I might add that this all turned out later to be total fabrications.

You might also add that you took this statement out of context making it sound as if Kerry was the one giving the actual account of the events while he really seemed to have recited what 150 other servicemen had testified to previously in a different setting:

I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command.

It is impossible to describe to you exactly what did happen in Detroit, the emotions in the room, the feelings of the men who were reliving their experiences in Vietnam, but they did. They relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do.

They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, tape wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the country side of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.

He is merely relating what other servicemen testified to in an earlier investigation. He's not making any claims of presenting his account of anything. But it sure makes for good propaganda to take what he said out of context.

Thanks for playing and be sure to try again!

None of that was out of context. It was taken word for word from his testamony before congress. The man hates our servespeople and has demonstrated that time and time again.

Thanks for playing and try again.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I think most of the ppl in this thread know my usual political stance. But even I see that he meant this as a dig to Bush, not directly towards the troops. It was Kerry's stupidity to say it how he said it though, where it could easily sound like he was referring to the troops, not Bush. And the whole comment/joke doesn't even make sense since Bush has a Master's degree. I don't get it...

I would agree - but it seems pretty crystal clear that neither party has demonstrated that they are above this sort of thing.

The Bush adminstration accused Kerry of "flip-flopping" during the presidential election. That was ####### on a ####### cracker - considering that everyone in the senate and congress has a similar voting record. Typical example of making something up in the absence of anything concrete.

The Democrats could have royally screwed Bush on his "pro-life" stance - while he stands against abortion, euthanasia and capital punishment - there's the small matter of the "futile care bill" he signed into law while Texas governor...

The decision not to publicise it was either good or bad politics - I guess it depends on how ethical (or indeed, unethical) you think politicians should be.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, tape wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the country side of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.

http://www.c-span.org/2004vote/jkerrytestimony.asp

I might add that this all turned out later to be total fabrications.

You might also add that you took this statement out of context making it sound as if Kerry was the one giving the actual account of the events while he really seemed to have recited what 150 other servicemen had testified to previously in a different setting:

I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command.

It is impossible to describe to you exactly what did happen in Detroit, the emotions in the room, the feelings of the men who were reliving their experiences in Vietnam, but they did. They relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do.

They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, tape wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the country side of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.

He is merely relating what other servicemen testified to in an earlier investigation. He's not making any claims of presenting his account of anything. But it sure makes for good propaganda to take what he said out of context.

Thanks for playing and be sure to try again!

None of that was out of context. It was taken word for word from his testamony before congress. The man hates our servespeople and has demonstrated that time and time again.

Thanks for playing and try again.

I'm sorry. Forgot that you have trouble reading. Quoting something word for word doesn't exclude the opportunity to quote out of context. That's what you happened to do.

The testimony he reports about in this particular case is the testimony of 150 other servicemen given earlier in a different investigation. How does his reporting on the testimony of others make him the guy that hates our troops - and therefore himself as he was part of "our troops"?

Never forget that "our troops" includes Sen Kerry. It doesn't include President Bush, Vice President Cheney, Scty of Defense Rumsfeld, Karl Rove or any other of the war hungry neo-cons that have driven American foreign policy against the wall and our credibility on any international issue in the ground. Never forget that.

[chri'stina 190]

They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, tape wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the country side of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.

http://www.c-span.org/2004vote/jkerrytestimony.asp

I might add that this all turned out later to be total fabrications.

You might also add that you took this statement out of context making it sound as if Kerry was the one giving the actual account of the events while he really seemed to have recited what 150 other servicemen had testified to previously in a different setting:

I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command.

It is impossible to describe to you exactly what did happen in Detroit, the emotions in the room, the feelings of the men who were reliving their experiences in Vietnam, but they did. They relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do.

They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, tape wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the country side of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.

He is merely relating what other servicemen testified to in an earlier investigation. He's not making any claims of presenting his account of anything. But it sure makes for good propaganda to take what he said out of context.

Thanks for playing and be sure to try again!

None of that was out of context. It was taken word for word from his testamony before congress. The man hates our servespeople and has demonstrated that time and time again.

Thanks for playing and try again.

I'm sorry. Forgot that you have trouble reading. Quoting something word for word doesn't exclude the opportunity to quote out of context. That's what you happened to do.

The testimony he reports about in this particular case is the testimony of 150 other servicemen given earlier in a different investigation. How does his reporting on the testimony of others make him the guy that hates our troops - and therefore himself as he was part of "our troops"?

Never forget that "our troops" includes Sen Kerry. It doesn't include President Bush, Vice President Cheney, Scty of Defense Rumsfeld, Karl Rove or any other of the war hungry neo-cons that have driven American foreign policy against the wall and our credibility on any international issue in the ground. Never forget that.

How can anyone take you so seriously with that cute little baby girl in your signature. Instead of debating with you I just want to goo goo gaa gaa at Naomi.

[GaryC 7]

I think most of the ppl in this thread know my usual political stance. But even I see that he meant this as a dig to Bush, not directly towards the troops. It was Kerry's stupidity to say it how he said it though, where it could easily sound like he was referring to the troops, not Bush. And the whole comment/joke doesn't even make sense since Bush has a Master's degree. I don't get it...

I would agree - but it seems pretty crystal clear that neither party has demonstrated that they are above this sort of thing.

The Bush adminstration accused Kerry of "flip-flopping" during the presidential election. That was ####### on a ####### cracker - considering that everyone in the senate and congress has a similar voting record. Typical example of making something up in the absence of anything concrete.

The Democrats could have royally screwed Bush on his "pro-life" stance - while he stands against abortion, euthanasia and capital punishment - there's the small matter of the "futile care bill" he signed into law while Texas governor...

The decision not to publicise it was either good or bad politics - I guess it depends on how ethical (or indeed, unethical) you think politicians should be.

I like Kerry's statement that "I voted for the war before I voted against it" comment. Pure Kerry flip-flop.

Then of course when he was running for prez in 2004 he made the statment that he would still have voted for the war even knowing what he knows now. The man will say anything he thinks the audience wants to hear.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I like Kerry's statement that "I voted for the war before I voted against it" comment. Pure Kerry flip-flop.

Then of course when he was running for prez in 2004 he made the statment that he would still have voted for the war even knowing what he knows now. The man will say anything he thinks the audience wants to hear.

No - the entire concept of 'flip-flop' is typical spin-doctoring. Name someone (in either political party) who has voted 100% consistently while in office.

I gave you the Bush example. That's actually quite a major one - because the futile care bill is completely contradictory to the administration's pro-life agenda which resonates with a huge section of its core electoral base. That's a real issue, and represents a serious ideological ambiguity. Find something similar that Kerry has done - then I'll agree with you.

Arguing the semantics of presentation over arbitrary statements seems somewhat irrelevant to me.

Edited November 1, 2006 by erekose

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The man will say anything he thinks the audience wants to hear.

Don't look now but you just described just about every male politician there.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

The man will say anything he thinks the audience wants to hear.

Don't look now but you just described just about every male politician there.

the female ones too!

[GaryC 7]

They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, tape wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the country side of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.

http://www.c-span.org/2004vote/jkerrytestimony.asp

I might add that this all turned out later to be total fabrications.

You might also add that you took this statement out of context making it sound as if Kerry was the one giving the actual account of the events while he really seemed to have recited what 150 other servicemen had testified to previously in a different setting:

I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command.

It is impossible to describe to you exactly what did happen in Detroit, the emotions in the room, the feelings of the men who were reliving their experiences in Vietnam, but they did. They relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do.

They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, tape wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the country side of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.

He is merely relating what other servicemen testified to in an earlier investigation. He's not making any claims of presenting his account of anything. But it sure makes for good propaganda to take what he said out of context.

Thanks for playing and be sure to try again!

None of that was out of context. It was taken word for word from his testamony before congress. The man hates our servespeople and has demonstrated that time and time again.

Thanks for playing and try again.

I'm sorry. Forgot that you have trouble reading. Quoting something word for word doesn't exclude the opportunity to quote out of context. That's what you happened to do.

The testimony he reports about in this particular case is the testimony of 150 other servicemen given earlier in a different investigation. How does his reporting on the testimony of others make him the guy that hates our troops - and therefore himself as he was part of "our troops"?

Never forget that "our troops" includes Sen Kerry. It doesn't include President Bush, Vice President Cheney, Scty of Defense Rumsfeld, Karl Rove or any other of the war hungry neo-cons that have driven American foreign policy against the wall and our credibility on any international issue in the ground. Never forget that.

I kept it purely in context. I left the "they told of" part in there and provided the link for everyone to read. What you forget is that Kerry knew what he was reporting was all lies and he did it anyway. Kerry, more than anyone, helped give the world the impression that the American troops were "baby killers" and that is why when our boys came back from 'nam they were spit upon ad cursed instead of welcomed back.

He did all of this including his "service" to jump start his political ambitions. He was totaly phoney about the whole thing. Even the medals he threw over the white house fence were not his. It was all show and troop bashing.

Thank you and please try again!

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I think most of the ppl in this thread know my usual political stance. But even I see that he meant this as a dig to Bush, not directly towards the troops. It was Kerry's stupidity to say it how he said it though, where it could easily sound like he was referring to the troops, not Bush. And the whole comment/joke doesn't even make sense since Bush has a Master's degree. I don't get it...

I would agree - but it seems pretty crystal clear that neither party has demonstrated that they are above this sort of thing.

The Bush adminstration accused Kerry of "flip-flopping" during the presidential election. That was ####### on a ####### cracker - considering that everyone in the senate and congress has a similar voting record. Typical example of making something up in the absence of anything concrete.

The Democrats could have royally screwed Bush on his "pro-life" stance - while he stands against abortion, euthanasia and capital punishment - there's the small matter of the "futile care bill" he signed into law while Texas governor...

The decision not to publicise it was either good or bad politics - I guess it depends on how ethical (or indeed, unethical) you think politicians should be.

I like Kerry's statement that "I voted for the war before I voted against it" comment. Pure Kerry flip-flop.

Then of course when he was running for prez in 2004 he made the statment that he would still have voted for the war even knowing what he knows now. The man will say anything he thinks the audience wants to hear.

Okay...let's play the flip-flop game!

"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him."

- G.W. Bush, 9/13/01

"I want justice...There's an old poster out West, as I recall, that said, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive,'"

- G.W. Bush, 9/17/01, UPI

"...Secondly, he is not escaping us. This is a guy, who, three months ago, was in control of a county [sic]. Now he's maybe in control of a cave. He's on the run. Listen, a while ago I said to the American people, our objective is more than bin Laden. But one of the things for certain is we're going to get him running and keep him running, and bring him to justice. And that's what's happening. He's on the run, if he's running at all. So we don't know whether he's in cave with the door shut, or a cave with the door open -- we just don't know...."

- Bush, in remarks in a Press Availablity with the Press Travel Pool,

The Prairie Chapel Ranch, Crawford TX, 12/28/01, as reported on

official White House site

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."

- G.W. Bush, 3/13/02

"I am truly not that concerned about him."

- G.W. Bush, repsonding to a question about bin Laden's whereabouts,

3/13/02 (The New American, 4/8/02)

Sorry, Gary...but you're just buying into the political rhetoric. You gotta dig deeper where the real issues are... like, "Why haven't we caught Bin Laden?" or "Why aren't we looking for him?" But hey, let's talk about Kerry who's not even running for office right now.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Rhetoric at the expense of the issues makes for a phoney debate