Age Conflict?????

[actob99 156]

Kinda agree on this one....

When they were not the same woman that usually just nod to everything.

And this is age relevent????

[GaryKO 49]

You have REPEATEDLY stated there is an age difference issue, a big red flag. etc. We are not imagining that. We are QUOTING you. So don't tell us we are mistaking what you are saying.

It is not a red flag. It is not something that brings on additional scrutiny. It is not an issue at the Embassy, period. We are not imagining you saying these totally off-base things.

But thanks for the lesson in how someone who is caught saying things so completely wrong then has the gall to say others can't read.

Well we will just have just disagree I guess, when a old man is trying to get a K1 visa for a very young woman of course this is going to cause a issue, and of course this will set off a red flag at the interview, and yes the CO will make sure the relationship is bona fide. Always been that way and will always be that way as long as K1 visa is one of the fastest ways to immigrate to the USA, and some are willing to commit visa fraud to get them here.

[Hank_ 9,174]

- you opinion. No factual data to back it up.

Whereas on the other side are a large number of "age gap" couples that had to endure ZERO "closer scrutiny" from the embassy, in fact they had to provide no more evidence then the couples who were very close in age. This not being opinion, just do a simple search here on VJ, there are lots of US.

Edited November 3, 2012 by Hank_

[kev_n_jena 89]

Well we will just have just disagree I guess, when a old man is trying to get a K1 visa for a very young woman of course this is going to cause a issue, and of course this will set off a red flag at the interview, and yes the CO will make sure the relationship is bona fide. Always been that way and will always be that way as long as K1 visa is one of the fastest ways to immigrate to the USA, and some are willing to commit visa fraud to get them here.

Do you think this imanginary red flag will make it less likely that a K1 application gets approved the larger the age gap is? I'm referring spefically to K1 applications filed for a women from the Philippines.

My wife and I (20 yr. gap) went through this process in 06 and 07. I've met MANY (probably 30) filipina/american couples here over the last 6 years and I've never met a couple with less than a 10 year gap in person.

I think the CO's see couples with a significant age gap more often than they see couples the same age or where the woman is older than the man.

[B_J 2,752]

In the original post, the USC was 44 and his fiancee was 19. When my wife, fiancee at the time, did her interview, I was 44 and she was 20. I guess our experience could be relevant to the OP.

There was no mention of age during any of the process until the interview.... where they didn't bring it up either. Her interview, which I wasn't there for, consisted of a total of 5 questions:

Who is the petitioner?

How did you meet?

When did you first meet?

When did you meet in person?

When was the last time you saw him?

So, I guess it's safe to assume that our 24 year age difference and her being so young had no negative effect.

But that's just our experience.

[Hank_ 9,174]

In the original post, the USC was 44 and his fiancee was 19. When my wife, fiancee at the time, did her interview, I was 44 and she was 20. I guess our experience could be relevant to the OP.

There was no mention of age during any of the process until the interview.... where they didn't bring it up either. Her interview, which I wasn't there for, consisted of a total of 5 questions:

Who is the petitioner?

How did you meet?

When did you first meet?

When did you meet in person?

When was the last time you saw him?

So, I guess it's safe to assume that our 24 year age difference and her being so young had no negative effect.

But that's just our experience.

:thumbs:

That about sums it up PERFECT!

Almost identical to the OP ....

So like said, OP - collect evidence of a real ongoing relationship, the same as all have to do and you will be just fine.

BTW - 28 years difference here.

Edited November 3, 2012 by Hank_

[aaydrian 479]

And this is age relevent????

Kinda-ish. People tend to mature as they get older and the 'attitude' they had to different things in life at 19 is likely to change by the time they approach their 30s where as a 26 yr old is likely 'stuck in their ways' and what you see is what you'll get for the rest of their lives. But as we know there is no hard and fast rule in life. Change is a part of life despite the age.

[aaydrian 479]

A large age gap is a red flag but it is taken into consideration based on the case at hand. In most if not all parts of the world 24 yrs in age difference where the man is older is 'normal, everyday news-same ole same ole happening since cavemen clubbed their women and took them back to the dens' so COs tend to ignore those 24 yrs unless the evidence demands it to be taken into consideration. Now a 44 yr old woman filing for a 19 man in 2012 is still an eyebrow raiser (you know, this face ) and so these cases are heavily scrutinized because men for thousands of years tend to drool after the younger woman (and visa versa mainly for stability, experience etc) and these are the types they want form genuine relationships with.

Edited November 3, 2012 by aaydrian

[rlogan 2,036]

We have posters with evidence.

We have posters with opinions of prejudice. Bigotry, by definition.

Prejudice/bigotry is always so #######-sure of itself: eg Of course a white/Asian marriage is a red flag. The important thing to learn from this thread is about bigots who hold prejudice: no amount of evidence can convince them their prejudice is wrong.

Don't make the mistake of thinking a prejudicial bigot would not marry the object of his bigotry. You see people who think Asians are inferior who show that in the treatment of their wives. Or they treat their younger wife like a child. Their intention is not to marry an equal.

They don't realize it is their own bigotry, not that of the law, shining through in these #######-sure statements.

[Hank_ 9,174]

A large age gap is a red flag but it is taken into consideration based on the case at hand. In most if not all parts of the world 24 yrs in age difference where the man is older is 'normal, everyday news-same ole same ole happening since cavemen clubbed their women and took them back to the dens' so COs tend to ignore those 24 yrs unless the evidence demands it to be taken into consideration. Now a 44 yr old woman filing for a 19 man in 2012 is still an eyebrow raiser (you know, this face ) and so these cases are heavily scrutinized because men for thousands of years tend to drool after the younger woman (and visa versa mainly for stability, experience etc) and these are the types they want form genuine relationships with.

True "other parts of the world" have different ways, but this is about the Phils so ... who cares how they do it in ""Peru or Saigon"" . It all boils down to evidence of a real ongoing relationship, no fraud, no scamming....

[GaryKO 49]

Do you think this imanginary red flag will make it less likely that a K1 application gets approved the larger the age gap is? I'm referring spefically to K1 applications filed for a women from the Philippines.

My wife and I (20 yr. gap) went through this process in 06 and 07. I've met MANY (probably 30) filipina/american couples here over the last 6 years and I've never met a couple with less than a 10 year gap in person.

I think the CO's see couples with a significant age gap more often than they see couples the same age or where the woman is older than the man.

It is not so much the age gap, everyone seems to place the attention on the age difference. It is the age of the woman in that 18 to 23 year age group. That is the age group where 90% of the visa fraud occurs. The man can be a few years older or much older. Maybe when I say the relationship will get "closer scrutiny" during the interview process this is too strong of a word. VJ and some other sites do a great job of giving advise on how to prepare for the interview. I did not mean to imply that the CO because of the age of the woman or the age gap would ask for evidence that is more than what most of us would think of being normal evidence to furnish to establish a on going relationship.

Just some of the K1 visa applicants only provide the minimum, proof they met in person and proof they intent to get married. All I'm saying is when the woman is young in age, to prove a long relationship may not be possible because the changes are they have only know each other a short time. The CO will want to see evidence that the relationship is real, and they need to start early before filing for the visa and document the relationship, and be able to provide strong documented evidence at the interview that there is a on going relationship. The two of them must be able to prove that they have met in person within the past two years, and that they have had an ongoing relationship since. You need to submit photos, email evidence, letters, affidavits, and so forth in order to prove that the two of them are genuinely interested in obtaining the K-1 fiancee visa and marrying.

The woman needs to know a lot about the man and be able to answer questions that she should know about the person she intends to marry. Based on the documented evidence, or lack of may cause the CO to ask more questions of the woman to prove a bona fide relationship in his or her mind.

The advise I give to anyone applying for a fiancee visa or spousal visa is based on what I've learned about the process over many years, the process has changed a lot in the last 25 years, right now it is probably easier to get a visa approved than ever before. But in some peoples mind the process is still long, 15 to 20 years ago the fiancee visa took from 6 months to a year to get approved, and the spousal visa took as long as 2 or 3 years for approval. The K1 visa back then was a ####### shoot, you could apply for a K1 but the denial rate was pretty high, so a lot chose to get married first and endure the longer wait for approval instead of risking getting the K1 denied and forced to get married and summit a new visa application.

So again my advise for anyone applying for a fiancee visa and the woman is 18 to 23 years old, is to document the relationship, provide as much proof as they can at the visa interview that they love each other and the intent of the visa is to get married and live a happy life together, if they do that then they will have no problems.

[Hank_ 9,174]

So under 23 are mostly scammers (90%... plz... link to the FACT part of this)? Going to need hip wadders for this tale.... :blink:

I don't even want to try to guess how many K-1 visas, even on VJ, where the fiancee is under 23, and they go through the whole process doing no more then providing normal evidence of a real and ongoing relationship.

You may want to consider writing... grimm's fairy tales maybe....

Edited November 3, 2012 by Hank_

[GaryKO 49]

No, that age group is more likely to be a party to visa fraud, or a victim of human trafficking.

There are about 1000 K1/CR1 visa's reviewed at UMEM each month, only a very small number of those use this site.

I am very surprised you don't know about the famous Manila marriage scams, there are 10 or 12 going on all the time, you know so much! I guess you also think all 1000 of those visa's each month are all people looking for love. He He. So the USEM don't need do anything to combat this?

Wake up and smell the coffee.

KABAYAN NOV 2012

Pinoys held in US for sham marriages scam

By Leon Manaig

MANILA — Several Filipinos were arrested in the United States for allegedly arranging sham marriages for Filipinos wanting to marry American citizens in exchange for $3,000 in a move to legalize their stay in the US and eventually get American citizenship.

Maria Cruz, 49, a former Cook County traffic court employee, and five other people, arranged up to 15 fake marriages between 2003 and 2009. Cruz, formerly of Chicago and currently living in American Canyon, California, was arrested on an initial complaint in late August but was released on a $200,000 secured bond.

Last week, Cruz and five other people accused in the scheme, including 53-year-old Chicago immigration lawyer Manny Aguja, two of his employees — his twin brother Marc Aguja and Celeste Ligutan-Lopez, were also arrested, the Philippine News reported.

Federal authorities said court records unsealed on Nov. 23 showed that Cruz paid a fee for referrals to US citizens willing to enter into the fake marriages.

According to authorities, Cruz allegedly promised the US citizens they would be paid about $3,000 upfront for the marriage and $300 to $350 for each month until the non-citizen got citizenship.

“Cruz would even drive people to their purported weddings and take pictures before and after to make it appear that real ceremonies had taken place. She would also advise participants in the scam on how to make their marriages seem real to immigration officials,” according to federal authorities.

In addition to the 15 false marriages, Cruz also allegedly tried to arrange two other marriages for undercover US Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents.

Cruz has been charged with 10 counts of marriage fraud while the Aguja brothers have been charged with “conspiracy to induce foreign nationals to reside illegally in the United States.” – PNS

[rlogan 2,036]

No, that age group is more likely to be a party to visa fraud, or a victim of human trafficking.

There are about 1000 K1/CR1 visa's reviewed at UMEM each month, only a very small number of those use this site.

I am very surprised you don't know about the famous Manila marriage scams, there are 10 or 12 going on all the time, you know so much! I guess you also think all 1000 of those visa's each month are all people looking for love. He He. So the USEM don't need do anything to combat this?

Wake up and smell the coffee.

KABAYAN NOV 2012

Pinoys held in US for sham marriages scam

By Leon Manaig

MANILA — Several Filipinos were arrested in the United States for allegedly arranging sham marriages for Filipinos wanting to marry American citizens in exchange for $3,000 in a move to legalize their stay in the US and eventually get American citizenship.

Maria Cruz, 49, a former Cook County traffic court employee, and five other people, arranged up to 15 fake marriages between 2003 and 2009. Cruz, formerly of Chicago and currently living in American Canyon, California, was arrested on an initial complaint in late August but was released on a $200,000 secured bond.

Last week, Cruz and five other people accused in the scheme, including 53-year-old Chicago immigration lawyer Manny Aguja, two of his employees — his twin brother Marc Aguja and Celeste Ligutan-Lopez, were also arrested, the Philippine News reported.

Federal authorities said court records unsealed on Nov. 23 showed that Cruz paid a fee for referrals to US citizens willing to enter into the fake marriages.

According to authorities, Cruz allegedly promised the US citizens they would be paid about $3,000 upfront for the marriage and $300 to $350 for each month until the non-citizen got citizenship.

“Cruz would even drive people to their purported weddings and take pictures before and after to make it appear that real ceremonies had taken place. She would also advise participants in the scam on how to make their marriages seem real to immigration officials,” according to federal authorities.

In addition to the 15 false marriages, Cruz also allegedly tried to arrange two other marriages for undercover US Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents.

Cruz has been charged with 10 counts of marriage fraud while the Aguja brothers have been charged with “conspiracy to induce foreign nationals to reside illegally in the United States.” – PNS

Who doesn't know about scammers? You think we're stupid. We are evidence-based, not opinion-based at this forum.

He asked you for evidence that 90% of the scammers were 19-23. You responded with an article that says NOTHING about age. You've proven repeatedly that you make wild assumptions without evidence. Then contradict yourself. You don't even seem to grasp what constitutes evidence.

I don't claim to know the age distribution of scammers because we don't have studies available on that. But if you look at the current distribution of scammers on the Effects of Major Changes page, there's four definite scammer stories on there right now. One is over 30. Another looks to be mid-20's, not sure about the others but nobody is a teenager. The sample there contradicts your assertion. Nobody should be over 23 if you are right.

No animosity here. Someone has waded into a pretty informed group here thinking we're all idiots and will take someone's opinions as fact.

[rlogan 2,036]

Here's a sample of indictments in a Visa Immigration Fraud case called "Operation Knot So Fast":

•Fayzullohuja Mavlonov, 32, of Denver,

•Jessica Santiago, 35, of Orlando,

•Marcelino Brizon, 41, of Orlando,

•Idalia Gomez, 54, of Orlando,

•Akmal S. Nosirov, 32, of Uzbekistan,

•Brienn Marie Lasley, 27, of Orlando,

•Mariya Baran, 26, Kansas City, Mo.,

•Eric Daniel Toro, 25, of Orlando,

•Abubakir Khidirov, 27, of New Orleans,

•Rosemary Torres Rosario, 26, of Kissimmee, Fla.,

•Marlon Jimenez, 43, of Norcross, Ga.,

•Edna Isabel Cosme, 41, of Kissimmee,

•Recep Aksu, 50, of Daytona Beach, Fla.,

•Grisel Ortiz, of 40, Orlando,

•Volkan Aksoy, 34, of Orlando,

•Gisela Cora, 26, of Orlando,

•Rustamhon Bahriddinov, 26, of Charleston, S.C.,

•Rachel Ruiz, 36, of Orlando,

•Avazhon Jafarkhojaev, 31, of Charleston, and

•Ixchell Bonilla, 28, of Orlando.

These are include indictments of both Americanos and immigrants making scam marriages. The case is listed here: Operation Knot so Fast Indictments September 2012

At least some of these stem from 2008 immigrations, maybe even all of them but assuming that all of them are means there are only four names on this list of 21 people that would have been 23 or younger at the time. NONE age 20, NONE aged 19. ONE age 21, ONE age 22 and TWO age 23. But we don't know if these were the immigrants or the Americanos. Even assuming ALL of them are the immigrants it proves the MAJORITY are over age 23.

I don't want to claim this as anything other than demonstrating how we have a poster making wild assertions with no evidence and giving advice on this forum to people depending on our advice. I don't know what the age distribution of scammers is, but the poster's assertion has no evidence backing it, and a few minutes' googling for indictments of visa fraud prove him wrong.

The assertion is the underpinning of his argument that immigrants age 19-23 are going to have a tougher time in the Embassy interview because "90% of the visa fraud is age 19-23".

Do not listen to this poster.