Maine mayor tells Somalis to 'leave your culture at the door'

[scotinmass 588]

It is not disparaging. It is true. I do not wear a cowboy hat. More assumptions? More stereotyping? Isn't that kind of racist?

The OP was about foreigners in the United States and whether or not they should assimilate or maintain tradition. Lewsiton, by your own statement was trashed before they got there. Seems like any sort of life made an improvement, right? I am not talking about what they have done for the local economy, never mentioned it. Only that they have not assimilated, learned the language, or adapted to living and working here. All true. Assuming your impression of the results in Lewiston applies to all Somalians or others everywhere in the country is ludicrous. To put it mildly. By a huge majority the population of Somalians here are totally dependent on government handouts and always will be if they do not learn the language and adapt to their new home. Their choice, and I could not care less personally. They certainly have not hurt anything here. We have a microscopically low crime rate and no one is bothered by any of the refugees. Both Alla and I do work, both volunteer and paid, for Vermont Legal Aid, Association of Africans Living in Vermont, Vermont Refugee resettlement Program. There is no one more supportive of the immmigrants here than we are, even spending weeks working with Senator Leahy's office to craft legislation simplifying medical requirements for immigrants (I wish he would attach it to a bill that actually will pass). After all, our family IS made up of immigrants.

My family is made up of immigrants who had to learn the langauge and who speak multiple languages. Seriously, trying to paint me as racist or making assumptions about my clothing is foolish at best. Illogical actually. This IS an immigration website and we all are immigrants or have immigrant spouses and children. You think we do not like immigrants?

If you can tell me HOW they are better off to maintain tradition, NOT learn the langaugem, isolate themselves in society, then please explain how that works. If you want to continue make personal insults for lack of substance...here are a few clues, I do not wear a cowboy hat or boots. I am bald and used to be somewhat overweight but now I have lost 30 pounds and really it would be a stretch to say I was overweight, but hey, if it is all you got...go with it.

I await a reasoned and intelligent response.

The OP was specifically about the mayor of Lewiston and his opinion of the Soamli immigrants. All my responses have been specifically about that as I am right now 5 miles from Lewiston and feel I have a better understanding of this area than people who just read about it online. I have no opinions about immigrants in Vermont or anywhere else as I do not have any first hand knowledge of them. I'm sure you are better placed to judge immigrants in Vermont than me so I am not trying to contradict you about that.

The comment I made about a cowboy hat was supposed to be humorous hence the after it. It was not a personal attack. I am very obviously overweight (although I still have my own hair) and am far for perfect but I do have a sense of humor and if anyone wants to make stereotypical humorous comments about my country or culture I'll see the funny side. I don't wear a kilt but if you made a joke about me walking in Lewiston in my kilt I would laugh. I was not aware that Texan was a race tho.

As I pointed out many Somalians in Lewiston are making an effort and are learning the language and have jobs and businesses. You say they don't do that anywhere else but I was only talking about Lewiston and I have no knowledge of their abilities anywhere else so will make no judgement.

Yes this is an immigration website and we are all either immigrants or are married to one but being from another country does not mean you are a different race. If you are a white european or a white American you are still white and therefore the same race. Most people from Somalia are black so therefore are a different race. Being a different race is not country specific but is about genetics. So if a person were to say "I like all immigrants from europe so I'm not racist but I think Somalians are lazy and don't want to integrate or learn to speak my language and dress like they are wearing bed sheets" that might be open to interpretation from others that this person may not be very tolerant of people from a different race. It may not be true but it's understandable why someone might think that.

My wife and I also work. We own 2 homes. I have contributed a lot to this country but I came from a wealthy country where I had a very high standard of living and got a good education and received excellent career training. The refugees from Somalia had nothing and have spent a great deal of time in refugee camps living in tents in squalid conditions. They were invited to this country by the US government to be given a chance at a decent life. It wouldn't be fair to bring them here and throw them on the street and tell them to fend for themselves, so they are given a helping hand. Some will abuse that and stay reliant on the system and not make an effort as you say they do in Vermont but many will try and make an effort and fit in and give back to the community as many do in Lewiston. There are plenty native born American citizens who screw the system too. It's not just Africans.

Lastly why shouldn't people from other countries hang on to their traditions and religions? This country was founded on religious freedom. If they left all their traditions at home there would be no Halloween and Americans seem rather fond of that holiday. Maybe we should all just stick with native American traditions and get rid of everything that came from somewhere else!

[spookyturtle 9,466]

I do not wear a cowboy hat.

Yes you do.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

The OP was specifically about the mayor of Lewiston and his opinion of the Soamli immigrants. All my responses have been specifically about that as I am right now 5 miles from Lewiston and feel I have a better understanding of this area than people who just read about it online. I have no opinions about immigrants in Vermont or anywhere else as I do not have any first hand knowledge of them. I'm sure you are better placed to judge immigrants in Vermont than me so I am not trying to contradict you about that.

The comment I made about a cowboy hat was supposed to be humorous hence the after it. It was not a personal attack. I am very obviously overweight (although I still have my own hair) and am far for perfect but I do have a sense of humor and if anyone wants to make stereotypical humorous comments about my country or culture I'll see the funny side. I don't wear a kilt but if you made a joke about me walking in Lewiston in my kilt I would laugh. I was not aware that Texan was a race tho.

As I pointed out many Somalians in Lewiston are making an effort and are learning the language and have jobs and businesses. You say they don't do that anywhere else but I was only talking about Lewiston and I have no knowledge of their abilities anywhere else so will make no judgement.

Yes this is an immigration website and we are all either immigrants or are married to one but being from another country does not mean you are a different race. If you are a white european or a white American you are still white and therefore the same race. Most people from Somalia are black so therefore are a different race. Being a different race is not country specific but is about genetics. So if a person were to say "I like all immigrants from europe so I'm not racist but I think Somalians are lazy and don't want to integrate or learn to speak my language and dress like they are wearing bed sheets" that might be open to interpretation from others that this person may not be very tolerant of people from a different race. It may not be true but it's understandable why someone might think that.

My wife and I also work. We own 2 homes. I have contributed a lot to this country but I came from a wealthy country where I had a very high standard of living and got a good education and received excellent career training. The refugees from Somalia had nothing and have spent a great deal of time in refugee camps living in tents in squalid conditions. They were invited to this country by the US government to be given a chance at a decent life. It wouldn't be fair to bring them here and throw them on the street and tell them to fend for themselves, so they are given a helping hand. Some will abuse that and stay reliant on the system and not make an effort as you say they do in Vermont but many will try and make an effort and fit in and give back to the community as many do in Lewiston. There are plenty native born American citizens who screw the system too. It's not just Africans.

Lastly why shouldn't people from other countries hang on to their traditions and religions? This country was founded on religious freedom. If they left all their traditions at home there would be no Halloween and Americans seem rather fond of that holiday. Maybe we should all just stick with native American traditions and get rid of everything that came from somewhere else!

Best that you stay with local issues I suppose. Thanks

Edited October 6, 2012 by Gary and Alla

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

The OP was specifically about the mayor of Lewiston and his opinion of the Soamli immigrants. All my responses have been specifically about that as I am right now 5 miles from Lewiston and feel I have a better understanding of this area than people who just read about it online. I have no opinions about immigrants in Vermont or anywhere else as I do not have any first hand knowledge of them. I'm sure you are better placed to judge immigrants in Vermont than me so I am not trying to contradict you about that.

The comment I made about a cowboy hat was supposed to be humorous hence the after it. It was not a personal attack. I am very obviously overweight (although I still have my own hair) and am far for perfect but I do have a sense of humor and if anyone wants to make stereotypical humorous comments about my country or culture I'll see the funny side. I don't wear a kilt but if you made a joke about me walking in Lewiston in my kilt I would laugh. I was not aware that Texan was a race tho.

As I pointed out many Somalians in Lewiston are making an effort and are learning the language and have jobs and businesses. You say they don't do that anywhere else but I was only talking about Lewiston and I have no knowledge of their abilities anywhere else so will make no judgement.

Yes this is an immigration website and we are all either immigrants or are married to one but being from another country does not mean you are a different race. If you are a white european or a white American you are still white and therefore the same race. Most people from Somalia are black so therefore are a different race. Being a different race is not country specific but is about genetics. So if a person were to say "I like all immigrants from europe so I'm not racist but I think Somalians are lazy and don't want to integrate or learn to speak my language and dress like they are wearing bed sheets" that might be open to interpretation from others that this person may not be very tolerant of people from a different race. It may not be true but it's understandable why someone might think that.

My wife and I also work. We own 2 homes. I have contributed a lot to this country but I came from a wealthy country where I had a very high standard of living and got a good education and received excellent career training. The refugees from Somalia had nothing and have spent a great deal of time in refugee camps living in tents in squalid conditions. They were invited to this country by the US government to be given a chance at a decent life. It wouldn't be fair to bring them here and throw them on the street and tell them to fend for themselves, so they are given a helping hand. Some will abuse that and stay reliant on the system and not make an effort as you say they do in Vermont but many will try and make an effort and fit in and give back to the community as many do in Lewiston. There are plenty native born American citizens who screw the system too. It's not just Africans.

Lastly why shouldn't people from other countries hang on to their traditions and religions? This country was founded on religious freedom. If they left all their traditions at home there would be no Halloween and Americans seem rather fond of that holiday. Maybe we should all just stick with native American traditions and get rid of everything that came from somewhere else!

I specificallty said they should keep their traditions. We do. 75% of the books in our home are Russian, 80-90% of the spoken language is Russian, the food is Russian/Ukrainian, the housekeeping habits definitely Ukrainian, the religious practices, Ukrainian (celbrate Christmas January 7th and get all the gifts at 75% off!) That does not prevent them or our family from assimilating. I believe people are capable of being independt. You don't believe that, you believe some people are not capable of the same things you and I are. That's racist.

I have never said or even indicated the things you have repeatedly stated. So you need to create an argument that isn't there and then argue that. I asked that you tell me HOW it is to their advantage not to assimilate. You can't do that. I never said anything about "screwing the system" I never accused anyone of being lazy. I never suggested anyone give up their religion (Bosnians are also Muslim) In fact, nothing you are arguing was ever stated by me.

If you can tell me how they are better off NOT to assimilate, please do so. You have posted enough wrong assumptions, made up statements and personal attacks.

[scotinmass 588]

I specificallty said they should keep their traditions. We do. 75% of the books in our home are Russian, 80-90% of the spoken language is Russian, the food is Russian/Ukrainian, the housekeeping habits definitely Ukrainian, the religious practices, Ukrainian (celbrate Christmas January 7th and get all the gifts at 75% off!) That does not prevent them or our family from assimilating. I believe people are capable of being independt. You don't believe that, you believe some people are not capable of the same things you and I are. That's racist.

I have never said or even indicated the things you have repeatedly stated. So you need to create an argument that isn't there and then argue that. I asked that you tell me HOW it is to their advantage not to assimilate. You can't do that. I never said anything about "screwing the system" I never accused anyone of being lazy. I never suggested anyone give up their religion (Bosnians are also Muslim) In fact, nothing you are arguing was ever stated by me.

If you can tell me how they are better off NOT to assimilate, please do so. You have posted enough wrong assumptions, made up statements and personal attacks.

I never said they shouldn't assimilate. I said they shouldn't have to give up their traditions. I want them to fit in with the way of life here and get jobs and pay taxes. I want them to contribute to the social security fund so I can have a comfortable retirement!

The only language I speak is English (the real version of it not that funny American version!) so I would love the whole world to learn it fluently so we can all converse without me having to learn another language. When we go to the market some of the Somalians are fluent and some only manage to tell us how much 2 lbs of potatoes costs but at least they try. I do realize, however, how incredibly hard it will be for someone to learn a completely different language fluently in a short space of time. If I was dropped in the middle of Ukraine and was expected to pick up the language and converse with the locals I'd probably cry!

I never said Somalians weren't capable of the same things as you and I. I am actually hugely impresses with people who can come half way around the world to a place that is totally alien to them and where a different language is spoken and half of the year is cold and wet and under 6 feet of snow and not only fit in and learn the language but start up their own businesses and thrive. I don't follow your logic that defending the integrity of a group of people and their right to be in this country and to claim benefits if they need them makes me racist. In fact they have more right to be here than me because they are US citizens and I'm an resident alien.

I didn't know that Ukraine celebrates Christmas on January 7th but it sounds like a great idea getting the presents in the sales. Maybe I could start that tradition in our house!

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I never said they shouldn't assimilate. I said they shouldn't have to give up their traditions. I want them to fit in with the way of life here and get jobs and pay taxes. I want them to contribute to the social security fund so I can have a comfortable retirement!

The only language I speak is English (the real version of it not that funny American version!) so I would love the whole world to learn it fluently so we can all converse without me having to learn another language. When we go to the market some of the Somalians are fluent and some only manage to tell us how much 2 lbs of potatoes costs but at least they try. I do realize, however, how incredibly hard it will be for someone to learn a completely different language fluently in a short space of time. If I was dropped in the middle of Ukraine and was expected to pick up the language and converse with the locals I'd probably cry!

I never said Somalians weren't capable of the same things as you and I. I am actually hugely impresses with people who can come half way around the world to a place that is totally alien to them and where a different language is spoken and half of the year is cold and wet and under 6 feet of snow and not only fit in and learn the language but start up their own businesses and thrive. I don't follow your logic that defending the integrity of a group of people and their right to be in this country and to claim benefits if they need them makes me racist. In fact they have more right to be here than me because they are US citizens and I'm an resident alien.

I didn't know that Ukraine celebrates Christmas on January 7th but it sounds like a great idea getting the presents in the sales. Maybe I could start that tradition in our house!

Yes, Orthodox Christmas is January 7th which is December 25th on the Julian Calendar which they still use. Christmas is not a holiday in Ukraine but it is celebrated by religious people. New year's is the big Holiday and follows the same traditions as our Christmas. We actually give "New Year's" gifts on New Year's Eve but still buy them on sale. It is not nearly as commercialized with a single modest gift being considered adquate. We speak Russian at home for the benefit of those that would otherwise lose their langauge skills, (myself and our youngest son) our children get plenty of exposure to English, so do Alla and I. We need Russian practice!

We are frim believers in adjusting to the culture you live in. I lived in Ukraine and adjusted to that, Alla and the boys live here and have adjusted to that. We keep lots of FSU traditions IN OUR HOME.