Eastern Germany: the most godless place on Earth

[웃 910]

Eastern Germany: the most godless place on Earth

East German atheism can be seen as a form of continuing political and regional identification – and a taste of the future

A woman dressed as an angel waves from a roof top near the German Reichstag on the 20th anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall. Photograph: Andreas Rentz/Getty Images

They are sending missionaries to eastern Germany. A recent study called Beliefs About God Across Time and Countries found that 52.1% of people asked whether they believed in God identified themselves as atheists. This compared with only 10.3% in western Germany. Indeed, the survey was unable to find a single person under the age of 28 in eastern Germany who believed in God. Obviously there are some – I think I may have even met some once – but the survey was unable to find them. On the face of it this is an extraordinary finding and it is something that needs some careful explanation.

Different reasons are adduced for the absence of religion in the east. The first one that is usually brought out is the fact that that area was run by the Communist party from 1945 to 1990 and that its explicit hostility to religion meant that it was largely stamped out. However, this is not entirely the case. In fact, after initial hostilities in the first years of the GDR, the SED came to a relatively comfortable accommodation with what was called the Church in Socialism. The churches in the GDR were given a high degree of autonomy by SED standards and indeed became the organisational focus of the dissident movement of the 1990s, which was to some extent led by Protestant pastors.

In addition to an accommodation with religion, the party also deliberately created alternative poles of integration for the population. Young people were brought up in a highly ideological atmosphere and were required to undergo a so-called Jugendweihe – a sort of atheist confirmation. Interestingly, this ceremony has survived the end of communism and many young people still voluntarily enter into it. Equally, especially under Eric Honecker in the 1970s and 80s, an attempt was made to create a sort of "GDR patriotism", in which figures from Prussian history such as Frederick the Great were put back on their plinths in East Berlin and integrated into the Communist narrative of the forward march of history. Martin Luther, Thomas Münzer and other figures from the Reformation were also recruited into the party.

Another factor is that religion in eastern Germany is also overwhelmingly Protestant, both historically and in contemporary terms. Of the 25% who do identify themselves as religious, 21% of them are Protestants. The other 4% is made up of a small number of Catholics as well as Muslims and adherents of other new evangelical groups, new-age sects or alternative religions. The Protestant church is in steep decline with twice as many people leaving it every year as joining.

If we were to follow the Weberian line on this, then a highly Protestant area undergoing rapid modernisation would almost automatically experience a process of radical secularisation going hand-in-hand with industrialisation, a process which was only speeded up by the communist obsession with heavy industry.

When we look at western Germany however, we see that there Catholics are in a majority and indeed, political power in West Germany has traditionally been built on western-orientated Catholic support for the Christian Democratic Union in the south and west. Indeed, the first chancellor of postwar West Germany, Konrad Adenauer, had been mayor of Cologne in the 1930s and even then was in favour of the division of Germany and a "Rhineland Alliance" as a sort of precursor of the European Union.

What all of this means is that rather than simply just being an area that was occupied by the Soviet Union and their satraps in the East German Communist party, the eastern part of Germany has an identity which – almost a quarter of a century on – continues to make unification more difficult than expected. Religious confession, or rather the lack of it, plays an important role in this. This has led some to talk of East German atheism as a form of continuing political and regional identification. For example, in 2000 the Catholic theologian Eberhard Tiefensee identified what he called an "East German folk atheism" which could be argued to constitute a substantial part of a regional identity against West German Catholic domination.

Secularisation processes are under way throughout the continent and the role of religion and the church in modernity are being questioned everywhere, from gay marriage to women priests to abortion and on to whether the EU should identify itself as a Christian entity. The question should perhaps be whether it is actually folk atheism that represents the future of Europe.

http://www.guardian....P=FBCNETTXT9038

Edited September 23, 2012 by ☠

[Dakine10 5,452]

NM

Edited September 23, 2012 by Dakine10

[Danno 1,228]

Years ago Churches used to send missionaries to the farthest reaches of the world to reach those who had never heard the Christian message, it would seem the work there is done and the time has come to return back to Europe as it has become a whole new "untapped" region. IN many ways Europe may be easier to reach than the people of some remote jungle. Eurpoeans are open minded, un hindered by Witch-doctors and superstition, almost none have even heard the Christian message which is why so many are discovering Islam as well.

I might behove The Church to move quickly on this new mission field as the birth rates in these "godless" places are so low within a few generations, they may well be nearly gone.

THis reminds me of a series we watched some time ago about some Amish teens who went to Briton and how they and various british people reacted to each other. I couldn't help but notice a number of Brits were interested in their faith ....as an "everyday" faith in God was unknown to them.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/23/world/middleeast/egyptian-leader-mohamed-morsi-spells-out-terms-for-us-arab-ties.html?_r=0

Remember some time ago I posted a world map of fertility rates compared to a world map of Atheism side by side? That was so interesting, how the same places who don't have faith in God neither do they have any interest in doing what comes natural to every other species.... reproduce.

Maybe we will dig that up and repost it... with your permission of course?

[OnMyWayID 1,489]

Years ago Churches used to send missionaries to the farthest reaches of the world to reach those who had never heard the Christian message, it would seem the work there is done and the time has come to return back to Europe as it has become a whole new "untapped" region. IN many ways Europe may be easier to reach than the people of some remote jungle. Eurpoeans are open minded, un hindered by Witch-doctors and superstition, almost none have even heard the Christian message which is why so many are discovering Islam as well.

They are not "discovering Islam" they are importing large numbers of immigrants of that faith... Europe was where enlightenment and secularism was born. The aftermath of the crusades and the push away from religious control over peoples daily lives is was gave birth to free thinking and free speech laws. I am sad to see them giving back that freedom and losing what they gave much of the world.

I grew up thinking of Europe as a place of free thinkers where the direction of our future (or at least western civilization) was being designed. They broke away from religious dogma and finally science and truth was allowed to flourish. What is happening there now is not just bad for them, it is bad for the world.

I might behove The Church to move quickly on this new mission field as the birth rates in these "godless" places are so low within a few generations, they may well be nearly gone.

Yes I remember on the day of my wedding to my first wife the Bishop meeting with us and telling me about my family unit obligations.. even in the ceremony he paused about the part about children and said "at least two" before continuing. I really don't need someone telling me how to procreate, thanks though.. .Yes please pull up your map and of course I will be looking at the countries with low birth rates and looking at affluence, advancement in birth control, availability of abortions, the ability to determine sex while pregnant and the sudden uptick of the percentage of male births versus female births, etc..

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Europe was where enlightenment and secularism was born.

Europe "rediscovered" the knowledge of other civilizations, after they drove Europe into a thousand years of darkness. These are the same "enlightened" thinkers that are driving the western world along that same path. Welcome to oblivion.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Yes I remember on the day of my wedding to my first wife the Bishop meeting with us and telling me about my family unit obligations.. even in the ceremony he paused about the part about children and said "at least two" before continuing. I really don't need someone telling me how to procreate, thanks though.. .

Remnants of European colonialism.

[OnMyWayID 1,489]

Europe "rediscovered" the knowledge of other civilizations, after they drove Europe into a thousand years of darkness. These are the same "enlightened" thinkers that are driving the western world along that same path. Welcome to oblivion.

Yes very true good point... How about "reborn" instead of "born".. We can't exactly resurrect long dead civilizations.. People took great strides to get out from under that.. I guess we can laugh and head back to medieval times if it makes you feel better

Edited September 23, 2012 by OnMyWayID

[OnMyWayID 1,489]

Remnants of European colonialism.

I was LDS which believes Jesus visited America but yeah.. virtually every spot on the planet where there are people they took it from somebody else if you go back far enough... point being?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

point being?

Europe ain't all that. European history tells us that they are, by nature, a bunch of ignorant warmongering barbarians with delusions of grandeur....and America is, by and large, the cast-off from that society.

[Danno 1,228]

Europe ain't all that. European history tells us that they are, by nature, a bunch of ignorant warmongering barbarians with delusions of grandeur....and America is, by and large, the cast-off from that society.

Just because something isn't "perfect" .... doesn't mean there is something better...... or perhaps you want to offer a better example of "perfect'?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Just because something isn't "perfect" .... doesn't mean there is something better...... or perhaps you want to offer a better example of "perfect'?

It is what it is.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Europe ain't all that. European history tells us that they are, by nature, a bunch of ignorant warmongering barbarians with delusions of grandeur....and America is, by and large, the cast-off from that society.

And that's why all those other civilizations went to space when they weren't building air craft carries and computers.

Better yet name a civilization that's more advanced than the Western civilization.

[mawilson 2,133]

Remember some time ago I posted a world map of fertility rates compared to a world map of Atheism side by side? That was so interesting, how the same places who don't have faith in God neither do they have any interest in doing what comes natural to every other species.... reproduce.

Let's say it's true. (In the interest of full disclosure, I am an atheist and have no interest in procreation.)

Is it really such a bad thing in an overpopulated world?

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Let's say it's true. (In the interest of full disclosure, I am an atheist and have no interest in procreation.)

Is it really such a bad thing in an overpopulated world?

I was always under the impression that it's 3rd world cultures that have large families that they can't support thus lowing the living standard. Kind of like when you have a dozen people crammed in a 2bd apt.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

And that's why all those other civilizations went to space when they weren't building air craft carries and computers.

Better yet name a civilization that's more advanced than the Western civilization.

The USSR was the first in space. The Chinese built a computer 1000 years ago. The Japanese convinced the US of the superiority of the aircraft carrier over the battleship with the attack on Pearl Harbor. Looks like the Western world is always playing catch-up.

Edited September 23, 2012 by The Patriot